• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:50
CEST 19:50
KST 02:50
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities Firefly do had match fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22005 users

Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 25 2012 18:58 GMT
#60
Will join depending on what I hear about my job later. Don't want to in then .have to lurk all weekend again.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 26 2012 06:27 GMT
#74
/in

Don't have to leave town this weekend so I'll have plenty of time.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 27 2012 22:41 GMT
#122
On September 28 2012 07:08 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please..


Encouraging newbie towns to post is more important than typing out the same things I've said about lurker policy in XXVI and XXVII yet again:

If we don't have a good scum case (lurker or active) by late d1, we lynch the most suspicious lurker. We should obviously be looking to avoid that scenario by scum hunting.

That's really all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned.


Agreed but, regrettably, there isn't really anything else to talk about this early. To second his point about townies being active, don't get intimidated if you aren't really sure how to make a case and stop posting. Long cases aren't the only way to catch scum so if you feel overwhelmed sick around and ask questions. Demand answers for things you find wrong. Even if it doesn't directly catch a scum it provides insight into both you and the person you question. Silence allows the scum to hide very easily without having to do anything.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 15:00 GMT
#215
I'm awake. Catching up now.

First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play.

Reading everything more in depth now.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 17:27 GMT
#229
On September 29 2012 01:36 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 00:00 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm awake. Catching up now.

First impression is I really don't like Kush's early play.

Reading everything more in depth now.


I'm sorry you don't like my early play. Care to expand on that? I don't like your early play either, except I will tell you why:
you are a lurker.
It's been several hours since you said you read everything in depth, why not share your thoughts then?

Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 07:41 Stutters695 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +

On September 28 2012 07:08 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please..


Encouraging newbie towns to post is more important than typing out the same things I've said about lurker policy in XXVI and XXVII yet again:

If we don't have a good scum case (lurker or active) by late d1, we lynch the most suspicious lurker. We should obviously be looking to avoid that scenario by scum hunting.

That's really all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned.


Agreed but, regrettably, there isn't really anything else to talk about this early. To second his point about townies being active, don't get intimidated if you aren't really sure how to make a case and stop posting. Long cases aren't the only way to catch scum so if you feel overwhelmed sick around and ask questions. Demand answers for things you find wrong. Even if it doesn't directly catch a scum it provides insight into both you and the person you question. Silence allows the scum to hide very easily without having to do anything.



This is your first post. Let me summarize:
1 theres nothing to talk about d1
2 townies should be active

So you didn't actually give your lurker policy.
1 is just anti town. A lot of stuff has happened that you can talk about.
2 is just obvious beyond obvious.


Alright, here are my thoughts. Starting with this post (^).

You have issues with reading or you're misrepresenting intentionally.

I said "there isn't anything to talk about this early. As in the time of posting that what can we discuss except lurker and simple policy that has nothing to do with a case.

Number two is obvious because you have played multiple games. Not everyone has. My first game I played like I described in my post and was dead weight. I was carried and simply posting more would have helped out with that. Even if it is completely obvious to everyone in the game it still was worth saying. It gave you something to accuse me with, which opens up discussion.

Now onto your other case of misrepresenting (Full quote in spoiler for context, relevant part is immediately after).

+ Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:
Darthpunk

1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me.
What you meant was
agree with me about kush or I will FOS you.


2
Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason?
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote:
On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:
@corrosion

I'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides.

@everyone
This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST.

Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on...


Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation.

Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point.

##Unvote

##FoS: Kush

@darthpunk
Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum?


He explains his strategy:
Show nested quote +
I like to focus on one thing at a time.

So why have you already FOSed 3 different people?


3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke.
Show nested quote +
If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?

This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed.


4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was.



4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was.


Can you show me where this happened? I checked the postgame from XXVI and it wasn't there. I checked the pregame for XXVII and it wasn't there. The closest I found was this post from Hapa that says they made the mistake of shooting kreb N2 because of the gut read Jacob had on you as town and that they couldn't kill Jacob, you and myself at once N3 to reduce the number of confirmed/near-confirmed.

If this is the quote, it wasn't that your amazing play put you in such a confirmed town role that they should have shot you, its that Jacob (de-facto town leader) thought you were town. He isn't off the mark in saying that your play makes it so you don't get night-killed. If Jacob had been iffy about you I'd bet money Hapa wouldn't have said anything about scum shooting you.

Instead of addressing why less than a day into the game you aren't worried about a nightkill you accuse him of flaming while misrepresenting previous games to avoid answering.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 19:21 GMT
#239
Note the red is just for highlighting, I'm not 100% sold on Kush as scum.

The rest of my thoughts on Kush's play:

I feel the beginning of their argument is pretty self-explanatory. Once Kush says "thank you now i won't be nk" is where I really got suspicious of him.

Just look at how he has responded to Darth's case. "Oh those were jokes."

On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote:
should not have looked at thread again now I have to respond...
@debears yeah it's like exactly the same as last game. That's because I think up my first post almost word for word before I even get my roll pm. I did not get to follow through with it last game though since I rolled scum.
Also sorry for the semiflame war. It was not that bad. Also he started it.

Aside from that, I think the plan to start tunneling during the second half of the day is really bad. It helped us a lot last game as scum because we had an excuse not to vote for the people we were fosing.

Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote:
@Kush

thank you now I won't be nk


Was it also a joke ?
How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ?

Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk.
And yes it was a joke but the best jokes have truth to them.
It is a joke in that it's purpose was to be funny since obviously it doesn't help the scumhunt or my defense.


If you weren't scumhunting or defending a case to prove you're town, why are you posting it?

DarthPunk also throws up these two posts describing why he thinks Kush is scummy

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487&currentpage=8#151
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=370487&currentpage=8#157




After the post in the first link, kush says

On September 28 2012 10:37 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 10:08 DarthPunk wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On September 28 2012 09:58 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 09:53 DarthPunk wrote:
Also I am not against policy talk but that first post where you talk policy was also scummy as hell.


Why was that scummy? You say something that you know, since you've been watching me like a creeper, would piss me off, then you vote for me for responding to it.

So why was my policy talk scummy? You didn't even mention that in your vote post.


Here you go buddy

On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:

I have been told many times I have a "scummy meta." Not really fair since last game I did roll scum so I didn't really get a chance to show improvement in my town play. I'm working on it guys.


Apologetic and excusing scummy play before the game has really begun. Intrinsic guilt and belief that you will come across as scum. Not a townie trait at all.

On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
This is my 4th newbie game so I'm experienced as possible to play in this game. Also I think rolling scum last game will help my reads greatly. I know how those fuckers think.


Needlessly aggressive and otherwise irrelevant. Hinting you are town which is something scum worry about doing but townies are less inclined to do.

On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
Everyone say how you feel about lurker policy.
I take kind of a middle of the ground stance. I mean if you have like 3 lurkers obviously you shouldn't waste 3 nights killing them off 1 by 1. If I think someone is scummy than I vote for that person. If I don't have any good scumreads then I will be in favor of lynching a lurker.
Usually what seems to happen is town can't decide so they bandwagon on some lurker at the last second. I'm not against this since it keeps pressure on possible scum.
I don't like people to say oh we are definitely lynching a lurker d1, because then scum feels safe as long as they are somewhat active.
My willingness to lynch a lurker decreases as the game progresses. For example I think lynching a lurker d3 is really bad.


Policy talk that says very little yet makes it seem like you want to contribute. Null tell at best but doesn't look great in the context of your post.

On September 28 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote:
Message to scum:
I can smell you.

Once again. Hinting you are town in your first post.


Thank you. now why you didn't do that at first I don't know. Instead you engaged in this flame war with me for really no reason.

About my first post, yeah it was meant as mostly irrelevant. Just an introduction so people could get to know me.
I prob should not bring this up but let me just say I have an unkilled undefeated streak atm. 3 games played and I have yet to die and yet to lose. Therefore, for perhaps selfish reasons, I have a strong will to self survival. I want people to know that I have a scummy meta so they don't lynch me for it.
Apparently you were ready to lynch me in all 3 games even though I was town in 2 of them. I want to avoid that.

Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 10:09 DarthPunk wrote:
There is a reason that you have never been night killed, even when you claimed JK day one. Secondly, you are not getting night killed because you are not town.


So that wasn't an insult or a flame? You are saying I've never been nk because scum doesn't see me as a threat because I am bad. That's the real talk translation.



Note: The only "flame" so far has been Kush calling him an asshole and how Kush interpreted the JK comment (fact: if you claim JK d1 you should be dead. The only way that doesn't happen is if people write it off because your play is so hard to read between town/scum).

He addresses his own very first post and that is it. He says he wants to avoid DP lynching him because in 2 of his past 3 times he's been town. That bears no relevance to this. He hasn't addressed Darth's case at all. He's tried to discredit it through a strawman.



After Darth's next part of the case (Post 157) Kush again ignores it (writes this one off as just claiming DP thinks he plays bad, so the case is invalid) and just responds to part of it.

On September 28 2012 11:03 kushm4sta wrote:
I did bait your FoS intentionally actually. Before the nk post.

Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd.


Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 09:03 kushm4sta wrote:
@Darth what are your thoughts on lurker policy? What is your opinion of policy lynches? What is your policy about policies?

That's when I baited your fos.

Your recent case against my defense basically says you think I play bad. Just because I don't fit your mold of how you want a townie to act does not mean I can't find scum.


So we're to believe when you claim that particular joke post was to bait his FoS? So tell me, what did you learn by baiting his FoS? How does having distracted with you benefit the town? Why should we believe your other joke posts are jokes if this one had a purpose?


His defenses have been non-existent other than "jokes" and "player sounds weird compared to townie." Are you fucking kidding me? Having your sentence sound weird (it doesn't by the way) is a bad thing compared to calling someone town before you make a case on them? No, I don't buy it.


Finally, his only scum-hunting is this:

+ Show Spoiler +
On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:
Darthpunk

1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me.
What you meant was
agree with me about kush or I will FOS you.


2
Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason?
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote:
On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:
@corrosion

I'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides.

@everyone
This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST.

Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on...


Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation.

Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point.

##Unvote

##FoS: Kush

@darthpunk
Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum?


He explains his strategy:
Show nested quote +
I like to focus on one thing at a time.

So why have you already FOSed 3 different people?


3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke.
Show nested quote +
If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?

This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed.


4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was.




Where to begin with this "case."

1) Before this post, he accused debears of defending you. There is no them. And quite I don't blame him considering debears said "let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come." despite your multiple posts and not having defended yourself once.

2) This is the only point I'm actually curious about but I can understand why he would. When everyone accepts your "answers" he can't pressure you because no one will back him up and you'll just accuse him of flaming and joke around some more. I would like to hear DarthPunk's response to this point though.

3)Ok so what are his inflammatory statements? How does this correlate to him being scum? You accuse him of targetting you because of your playstyle, but here you do the same thing. The difference is he has facts to back up his. Your case reeks of OMGUS.

4) See my previous post. You're using the flaming to skirt the real issues. You should have been dead after you claimed JK. The only reason you have lived so long is because of bad play all around. Hapa says the mafia established the townieness of Kush. Again, you're making it seem like DP is completely off the mark when that isn't true and using to to say he is flaming you and his points are invalid (again strawman). Why aren't you afraid of a NK? Because of one post that isn't even a majority consensus?

There is plenty of time where you could answer and actually contribute to where you might be a NK target, but instead <12 hours in you
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 19:21 GMT
#240
ebwop: you were convinced that you won't die tonight because of some pressure.


Until I get some answers:

##Vote Kushm4sta
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 20:15 GMT
#249
Let's start by hearing you address the posts from DarthPunk that I linked. You ignored them before and ignored them when I posted them.

Additionally, since you have done 0 scumhunting. Let's assume that DarthPunk isn't a choice, who would your best scum read be and why?
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 20:45 GMT
#257
On September 29 2012 05:27 kushm4sta wrote:
hi sutteers.
why do I have to assume darth isn't a choice?


Because he's obviously your #1 choice right now and I've even given you reasons as to why your case is bad. I want to see what you think of the game as a whole, not just you and DP. I've seen that all game.

Stutters695 wrote:
Ok so what are his inflammatory statements? How does this correlate to him being scum? You accuse him of targetting you because of your playstyle, but here you do the same thing. The difference is he has facts to back up his. Your case reeks of OMGUS.


You responded like you have all game by addressing part of it, but not the whole statement "He isn't flaming but he trying to make people mad. You can tell.in every post where he foses.someone just by the tone of his prose. Savvy? that was.the example I used, but there are.plenty. more. Who even uses that word except in old.westerns when a figure of authority is talking down to a subordinate."

Where are the other examples? I don't find that particularly assholish, so I'm not seeing the other ones. It seems more like frustration of not getting his point across to me.


On September 29 2012 05:25 kushm4sta wrote:
that post of when I say player and person is actually from when I was scum. that was.because.I put in extra effort to not make scum slips. this game I don't even give a fuck.
I.think people misunderstand.the nature of scumslips. I'm surprised that people who have been scum before don't realise this. Think of the scumslips you've made.They aren't obvious like that. I made plenty last game.

So you don't think I was aggressive my second game? Read the post where drazzak foses me. I.flame quite bad there.if I remember.correctly.

People.critisize me for not scumhunting. Well I identified my top scum read and his scummy behavior. My time is not infinite though and people keep asking me questions I have to answer. Would you prefer I ignore questions?


This is bullshit. You have the second longest filter in the game. You haven't answered any of the questions either DP or I have asked, you've skirted around them. And you could have taken the time to answer them when you were arguing with DP instead of just going back and forth without spending any more time in the thread.

That part in red. What the fuck? You don't "give a fuck" this game? Why is that? Seems to me if you were town there wouldn't be a scumslip, regardless of your attitude.

Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 28 2012 20:46 GMT
#258
Sorry for swearing a couple of times in that too. Anyway I'm going to go play racquetball for a while. Kush there are questions in each of my posts if you took the time to read them (a couple may be implicit, but fairly obvious all the same).
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 29 2012 00:02 GMT
#294
It is going to be you unless you start contributing. I know you can do better so do it.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 29 2012 00:38 GMT
#302
On September 29 2012 09:20 kushm4sta wrote:
Debears if you want me to answer this question you need to make it clearer what the question is.
Show nested quote +
If you feel like this, then why did you post this?


Yeah I know my actions were stupid and I'm sorry. Stop calling me a little bitch because I already said sorry.

I dont even a blue role to roleclaim so yeah im fucked this game.


You aren't fucked if you show value and scumhunt. Wallowing in self-pity will get you lynched however.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 29 2012 01:52 GMT
#311
The debears Kush thing is on reference to xxvii where they were Scum partners.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 29 2012 03:41 GMT
#339
DarthPunk, its a joke referencing Gladiator. Actually pretty clever, I lol'd.

Anyway, until/if Kush actually decides to play, I think we should just ignore him and focus on everyone else. Between his activity and posts so far it doesn't seem like we're risking a no lynch by doing that.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 29 2012 20:04 GMT
#404
On September 30 2012 04:39 Alsn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 30 2012 03:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
I urge everyone to read this exchange. My lines are in red.
He still feels the need to use the same elements he did initially: My case is OMGUS, it's weak, it's bad, etc.
This post comes off to me as cornered scum trying to squirm his way out, but that could be just me tunneling him hard. Everyone please take the time to read and see if you agree with me.
I actually find some of your arguments very compelling. I agree that his 180 on Djodref looks scummy, but I don't agree with your original argument that him making that case on both you and Djodref is inherently scummy just because the cases are similar.

I however think that your pressuring has yielded fruit. I happen to agree that your initial feud with debears was on pretty shaky grounds, which is why I spoke out against you at that point. It may just have been me misinterpreting your tone/intentions, but nevertheless I feel most of the early-game arguments debears put forward were relatively sound, and you weren't necessarily in the right for attacking them. His responses do seem convoluted though.

To be fair, I think his "scum slip"(the one where he all but proclaimed Djod town) is pretty much the exact same type of slip that kush committed. Basically, directly suggesting that he should pm marv could be seen as him knowing djod's alignment. But I think just as with the kush slip, it's definitely not 100%. It could be a typo, he could have just been lazy and not wanted to say marv/hapa, there could be many different reasons. Anything he says himself probably won't sway anyone though. I'm actually surprised there hasn't been more of an outcry about it.

So to sum up, I disagree that debears is clearly wrong for saying that your initial case was weak, however, I feel like he has some pretty scummy explanations for some of his actions, particularly wrt Djodref. I think your case has gone from pretty nit picky to a rather strong case.

So I think I'll withdraw my FoS on you, your explanation for your behaviour concerning SDM earlier was satisfactory, and I will probably have to go through your case against him at least one more time before I can be sure, but it seems to be pretty solid to me.

I would like to see some input from the less active players with regards to the entire debears/boson debate. Because currently I'm having pretty much null reads on all of the following: Omniscient, RemedySC, Corrosion, Djodref(someone else remind me if there's anyone I've missed please). A few of them have posted slightly scummy or slightly town, but either way it's very difficult for me to make up my mind one way or the other right now. If we assume that kush wasn't trolling us with the "I'm red" part, then we have quite some time before we ever need to worry about mylo/lylo, but I'd still like for us to get there without either being forced to lynch 4 null-reading lurkers, or to have them left in the game at that stage.


I disagree with this. Yes, it is suspicious, but not nearly as bad as Kush's. It definitely merits looking into, but compare the differences. I would reason it is equally likely to be a scum slip compared to a townie. Kush's slip called someone town (not his normal meta to refer to everyone as town) on someone he was accusing of being scum. Debears told someone to PM marv for help. Even if he was scum I think it'd be more likely that his reasoning for saying Marv isn't to tell Djo exactly who to pm as to come off as town himself by referencing that he has the town coach.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 29 2012 20:05 GMT
#405
ebwop sorry I was typing that and didn't see the time
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 30 2012 00:35 GMT
#428
I'm in.EST. Sorry my school is playing a top 5 team in football so I've been in the other.room. I need to.go.through the thread now that we've seen that he actually was Scum. I'm having food but I'll check back.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
September 30 2012 18:23 GMT
#503
You guys are trying to catch people with the same slip when the circumstances aren't the same. That was z bosons first(iirc) post of the game and that was pretty clearly nothing more than.friendly talk at the start. Ask yourself what motivation would a Scum have for posting that? Kush posted a thing saying DP was town while DP was his biggest suspect. I'm still not sold on the debears "scumslip" for the same reason although there is enough other stuff on debears that it seems more likely.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
October 01 2012 19:17 GMT
#566
Sorry guys I'm back. Catching up now.
Stutters695
Profile Joined July 2012
2610 Posts
October 01 2012 22:43 GMT
#577
I'm really suspicious of Alsn. Again red is for emphasis inside of the spoilers.

His second post of the game he puts a FoS on Kush.
+ Show Spoiler [FoS on Kushm4sta] +

On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a:

FoS kushm4sta

kush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak.

That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth:
Show nested quote +
On September 28 2012 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:I am not flaming Kush. I am legitimately scum hunting. The contrast in this situation, to the one with shiao, are so stark that there is no point even bringing it up. You will know when I am flaming when you see it, and even then it is not really that big a scum tell. I can tell the difference between Scummy town and actual scum, and it is not 'illogical' to be able to do this. Kush right now is not scummy town. He has slipped HUGELY. He is conforming to his previous scum meta. Seriously...

There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.

This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out.

I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.

I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast.



The most important thing to focus on from this is even when he FoSes Kush he states that he thinks everyone is jumping the gun, but if Kush doesn't shape up his posting he is ok with lynching him. This post and the next one are what made me go WTF.

On September 29 2012 18:17 Alsn wrote:
First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange).

Looking at the vote count, the last official count says 7, and now corrosion added his vote for a total of 8. With myself that would be 9, the exact number of town in this game. From my point of view, unless kushm4sta, Djodref and Lesrah are the 3 scum, there are scum pushing this lynch.

Given that, I'm really starting to dislike this lynch. I agree however that kush has been mostly concerned with defending himself against perceived injustice rather than actually trying to hunt scum, this still does not convince me that he is scum. Lynching scum with an overwhelming majority D1 just seems like way too improbably. Sure, if we had to fight tooth and nail to get 7 votes, I might buy it, but that's not the case. It seems to me there must be scum sheeping onto this lynch.

Like I've stated before I can go along with the kush lynch, but I'd rather try and lynch my top scum read at this point and with the current developments, I see a kush lynch more as a last resort than my main scum read. Unfortunately, this argument is only available to people who have yet to vote and are town, as well as to scum since other than myself only scum are aware of my alignment. For everyone else, the "unless a, b and c are scum" argument will include me.

My argument is at least enough to convince myself, so I'll be scouring the thread for the next couple of hours to see if my "gut scum reads" so far have any merit and if so push that/those case(s) instead. If it turns out that they are going nowhere, I will vote kush. But I still feel we have enough time to at least have a discussion on the topic of "just wtf is going on here?!".


So now that the game has dragged on and Kush's play has deteriorated, what happened to "unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him." ?

You also say you'd rather try and lynch your top scumread (first red highlight) but up until this post you haven't posted a single scum read. The best you've done is questioned Z-Boson until you dropped it over time. Why are you suggesting we should have lynched someone else without posting a case or even who you are suspicious of? Additionally who were those "gut scum reads" you mentioned? Going forward to where you

+ Show Spoiler [Voting for Kushm4sta] +
On September 29 2012 21:15 Alsn wrote:
I've been doing some soul searching and I'm starting to agree that it's not worth it to try and push any other cases right now.

Mostly because my entire premise was that I was thinking it to be unlikely for kush to be scum. I realise that after trying to put into words why I think that is so, I have nothing other than the fact that I "feel" him to be town, which is a really stupid reason for absolving him. I thought I could back it up by saying he's been pressured to hard, there's no way he's responsible for not scum hunting. But in the end, I can't find a logical reason to forgive him if I exclude my own gut feeling from the equation.

I think now that my best option is to hold on to whatever small reads I have(because while I have some suspicions, I don't think they are rock solid) until after the lynch is over. Because at least then, we will have more information.

So for now, although my gut is screaming at me, I'll commit to voting for kush, mostly because most of what I said about BosoN has returned somewhat satisfactory answers, I really don't like the way a lot of people got away with not basically posting anything at all(I'm looking at you, Djodref, corrosion, Omniscient, RemedySC). I think that's probably what irks me the most, the thing I was most hoping would not happen, did happen.

##Vote: kushm4sta



Now I'm a little confused with his logic. With his vote the lynch is essentially finished (if scum wanted to last minute switch they'd be giving themselves away and it would be GG) but instead of sharing any of his reads (his gut feelings or his top scumread) he decides he should wait til after the lynch to share any "reads". Doesn't this directly go against his "we need to start exploring different possibilities"? He even listed four lurkers he could have pressured them throughout the day, but instead he argued with DP about Kush (whom we shouldn't focus entirely on according to Alsn).

His whole day 1 posting is scummy as hell to me and reeks of someone who tried to help defend Kush before Kush melted down and tried to retroactively justify this defense through maintaining that stance. His case on debears is a good contribution (at first glance, I haven't read it in context of the thread yet) but I want to see how he explains his contradictions and false promises from day 1.
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 10m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EnDerr 48
MindelVK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 704
Stork 274
firebathero 170
Dewaltoss 125
sSak 76
sas.Sziky 62
Yoon 61
Movie 56
Sacsri 22
sorry 20
[ Show more ]
Backho 13
yabsab 5
Dota 2
Gorgc7242
qojqva3856
Counter-Strike
fl0m5621
olofmeister1513
rGuardiaN92
FunKaTv 63
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King71
Other Games
tarik_tv60595
gofns15883
summit1g6983
B2W.Neo1093
Beastyqt782
ceh9447
Lowko339
ArmadaUGS188
KnowMe111
mouzStarbuck82
Trikslyr70
QueenE62
BRAT_OK 51
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream2410
Other Games
BasetradeTV92
StarCraft 2
angryscii 43
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 27
• OhrlRock 2
• Dystopia_ 1
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4446
• Ler112
League of Legends
• Nemesis4031
• TFBlade424
Other Games
• imaqtpie511
• Shiphtur303
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 10m
Replay Cast
16h 10m
WardiTV Invitational
17h 10m
WardiTV Invitational
17h 10m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 6h
GSL Code S
1d 15h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.