EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIV
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
My experience from other mafia games is that the first day is a dead day and accusations made on the first day rarely holds any water. Despite that I think that Shady's case against YH is good, he's very inconsistent which in my experience is how unexperienced scum behaves. I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there. On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent. I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
Looking through Och's posts about Arch I can't say that they make much sense, he just goes straight after Arch when he hadn't posted anything suspicious in my book. I can only see two reasons for him to do it. 1. He really thinks that Arch is scum for reasons that I can not grasp. If this is true I don't Och is a townie and Thrawn is scum. The reason I think this makes Thrawn scum is because he would have just saw a guy going after another and then he followed suit, like scum usually do in my experience. This is however very unlikely in my opinion, because why wouldn't he go after me who already have suspisions on me? for this reason, I don't think that Och is townie and Thrawn is scum 2. They are both scum and they decided to single out a guy This makes sense as to why they would both go on Arch when no one else is doing it, they tried both to be convincing to get as many people as possible with them and lynch Arch. This still leaves the question why they didn't go after me instead Arch with suspicions already on me. While this might not be the strongest of evidence I do think that it's very likely that Thrawn is scum and therefore I will FoS him. ##FoS thrawn2112 | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
The lurkers before that post were gobalt, archrun, jhyut, ochrow, and stutters. Gobalt had accused me of being scummy, and had expressed belief in solar's innocence during the troll posts Jhyut made the comment about his outside experience with solar and he softly accused yh of being scummy Ochrow said he thought solar was town and that shady had read too much into solar's posts Stutters did not think that shady was right. Stuters didnt think that solar's post was intended as a soft accusaton of stutter's post Archrun avoided making any reads at all, he was the only lurker to do this and therefore he was my most suspected lurker. Ok, now I know your motivation for Archrun and reading the post by mkfuba07 I don't think you're as scummy anymore. There went my entire thought process of this day, yippie. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + On August 17 2012 03:30 mkfuba07 wrote: Trying to get into school is running me ragged, so this will be my only post for the moment. If anyone has specific questions they'd like me to answer, let me know so I can get to those as soon as possible (preferably before the lynch). Since Thrawn seems to be quite the target, I'm going to post my thoughts on him: 1) The SK posts seemed a bit suspicious, but when I read them I got a rather null read. I was obsing a game recently (my apologies for not knowing the exact game name) where it seemed like the entire first 24 hours was spent discussing what a theoretical Tracker should do if he even existed in the game. Asking a question of the more experienced players regarding SKs, and giving his own point of view, doesn't send off any major alarms in my head. He dropped the issue immediately after people said that they basically agreed with him, and he hasn't personally brought them up ever since. 2) Regarding his actions in the Solar issue, I tended to agree with him along the way. This quote appears to summarize his thought process quite nicely, and since it was exactly the same as my thoughts I actually got a slight townie read after it. He was suspicious at the right times, and when something didn't make sense he questioned the reasoning of whoever raised that point. 3) This quote makes me lean townie as well. Though I have stated that I didn't agree with the original argument behind YH's reads on solar/GK, Thrawn again comes to the same conclusion as me: that the entire case comes down to that single "Sigh..." comment. Though I was (and still am) suspicious of YH after that case, Thrawn's disagreement over this doesn't reveal alignment to me. The way he's thinking things through is very similar to how I did during my only previous vanilla townie game. 4) The whole Z-Boson/Ochrow situation also has me leaning town. During that entire situation, Thrawn makes efforts to alleviate the confusion that's been caused by Z-Boson's misread, when he could have just sat back and let the misunderstanding grow out of control (especially seeing how readily people in this game have been jumping on single posts to make full cases). With this, I have a firm townie read on Thrawn. 5) I don't see any real evidence of Thrawn and Ochrow coordinating their posts. The entire thing feels contrived to me. This makes me feel that this bandwagon that's started on Thrawn is at least partially supported by scums. This, in turn, gives me an even stronger townie read on Thrawn. 6) His subsequent suspicion of Shady is completely valid in my eyes. If Thrawn is town, then as he's pointed out, the only information he can be 100% sure of is his own alignment. Since he knows he's town, he has a right to be suspicious of someone so zealously pursuing lynching him. His vote isn't instantly OMGUS just because Shady voted for him before. Thrawn has actual reasons for being suspicious, and Shady hasn't, even in my eyes, done a good job of addressing them. Thrawn has been tunneled pretty hard for one of the first cases to have any significant reasoning behind it (the one against Archrun), and I find that incredibly suspicious. While most other players are making cases based on such huge stretches that I find it hard to believe they came to the conclusions they did, Thrawn is being hit hard for providing a case that was based entirely within the context of the thread itself. In short, I truly think that a lynch on Thrawn would be a mislynch. I have some reads on other people that I will try to get up as soon as possible, but I have to leave to take care of school issues right now, and don't want to post half-assed theories without being able to clarify them right away. I will say that I am likely to support a relative lurker lynch, especially given that most of the discussion has been about a player who I've made it clear I have pretty strong town reads on. ##Vote: Shady Sands I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
I have a really hard time following YH's posts, but he seems Scummy to me mainly because of the way he flip-flops between who he finds suspicious from the outset of the game, which is a very strange behaviour. Now this part might be because I have a hard time following his train of thought, but he uses GK's "sigh..." in + Show Spoiler + On August 15 2012 12:17 goodkarma wrote: @Solarsail: Sigh... I really hope this entire day doesn't revolve around you because you got off to a bad start. I feel it's more likely you're an overaggressive townie right now. Seeing as how this is your first game I would recommend you take a look at prior games and how people present "cases" on other people. Try to show us why you feel someone is scummy rather than blindly accusing people. The last thing I want is for us to waste an entire day getting a bad townie lynched. And obligatory game filters: Vanilla townie: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315&user=81106 Godfather: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874&user=81106 The first one in this post: GK's post struck me as strange because it made it sound like he knew Solar's alignment. He even starts the post with a "Sigh..." as if the town has been going in the wrong direction. My first suspicion was that they are scums together, but I don't think scums support each other this obviously and directly. GK using such wordings would strongly incriminate him if Solar ever flips scum. Thus, I thought this possibility is not likely. The second on in this post: I mean, he sighs! You may laugh and say this is trivial, but to me this is an indication of certainty that everyone else who has been suspecting Solar is wrong and he somehow has this knowledge and disapproves. Then he asks me why I find Solar townie. And exactly 3 minutes later, when I explain to him why I thought Solar was a mason, in this encryptive post that I thought he would understand if he was a mason: Another thing I think is really weird is how he suddenly goes after Archrun when he says that "if Shady is town then Thrawn is scum and vice versa" and suddenly decides that Archrun is the scummiest player around. The weird thing is that he right before that thinks that Shady is the scummiest read he has but his case against him isn't too strong, but he seems to not use that fact that Shady tries to do a sheep move with his "Everybody let's just vote for Thrawn" line. This should have strengthened his case against him but for some unknown reason he just drops the case entirely for the while. This behaviour is really weird as it is, but if you continue to consider the Darthpunk's idea that he's scum with Thrawn his sudden switch back to vote for Shady makes a whole lot of sense too. Those are my thought's on YH's case for the moment, right now I need to go to bed. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
On August 18 2012 16:03 thrawn2112 wrote: Darthpunk, you have been twisting everything I've said to you into more reasons why I'm scum, and for that I'm going to be looking closely at your filter. It seems like you're less interested in seeing what I have to say and more interested in convincing town I'm scum regardless of my arguments. Goodkarma on the other hand even asked me to defend myself. I can sense sincerity in his motivations but you just seem focused on interpreting everything I say as evidence against me. @goodkarma dont worry it's coming I want to say that I had the exact same reaction to You are right that there is no evidence in either direction to prove or disprove my vig claim. I only vig claimed to give an explanation as to how things could have worked out the way they did if I am town. as he had, simply because from my experience that is the easiest way for a scum to reveal himself.I guess it could also be because you suddenly thought you should write as if you had not claimed you're vigi. From either scum or town perspective that's a really dumb idea because it is, like I have written, a very common scumslip. Right now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I think that it is more urgent for us to lynch YH because of his flip-floppy ways and long posts with almost no content. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression. I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
On August 15 2012 12:48 YourHarry wrote: I will explain later, or maybe it will sort itself out. FOS Following people still have not posted: Golbat Jhuyt Z-BosoN Ochrow In this post he was very clear with whom had not yet posted, so I assume he made the effort to look through the filters and found us. later on he says this: As to why I did not call out Ochrow: I was not even aware of it. How many times did I call lurkers out - I did not make sure that I got every single lurkers out. In fact, I thought in one of the list, I copied lurker list provided by previous poster and eliminated names who posted since then. I simply missed him for some reason... Here he claims that he did not try to find everybody, so he lied, or forgot about it, I'd say he lied. This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town. For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry ##Vote: YourHarry | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
First he says how he has changed his read on me, and no longer thinks I am as scummy as he thought. Then he presents the idea that "either Shady or Thrawn is scum." He decides to vote for shady, because "Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum." I don't think that's a good reason for him to consider shady scum. My being town is not something town players would know, and that was the basis for why I voted on Shady. (in retrospect that was very poor play by me) Jhuyt says that because he believes my reason for accusing Archrun was good so that makes Shady scum, in other words he is saying "I am accepting thrawn's defense of himself therefore shady is scum." I don't think that is a conclusion a town player would or should make. I think a lot of other town players reached that conclusion as well, but after him making the "either thrawn scum of shady scum" suggestion it looks VERY scummy. Yep, it looks like your explanation of archrun was the only reason why I chose to vote for Shady, but you fail to notice that I thought his behaviour was a way for the mafia to play from what I've seen On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote: Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful. On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there. On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent. I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind. My case on you were mostly based on the fact that I just couldn't see why you wanted to lynch Arch. When I realised why you did it, I suddenly had two hot candidates, that being you and Shady, and one less hot, being YH. I believed your defense was strong enough for you to go to the second place on my list, and therefore I voted for Shady. As for the apology, I recognized it as a mistake and apologized for it, even if I didn't explicitly say it was a mistake. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
That's a reasonable defense if you think that such a misuse of that phrase is likely but I don't think it is. He apologizes for posting it instead of just admitting it was a mistake which IMO is scummy. The last part, "YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion" gives off a town feeling to it. now look at the bold part of this quote: The bolded part looks like a scummy way to get people to vote for yourharry. Prior to investigating jhuyt I had a scum read on yourharry but I think jhyut's overall play looks scummier and for that I'm going to assume that unless jhuyt flips green, yourharry's constant flip flops are just due to what yourharry described as his "over-active imagination." My initial read on yourharry after he gave his explanation for his solar/gk mason theory was that he reads too much into things and is too quick to make reads, and now I'm going to accept that again. I'm not going to vote for Obvious because I need more time to get a read on him. I use the same arguments and draw two wildly different conclusions from it, please be more consistent. I would also like to hear what you did not find sufficient with my defense of you FoS, it's pretty scummy to dodge the bullet like you did. | ||
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Jhuyt
Sweden365 Posts
Good luck and have fun!  | ||
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