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Active: 7720 users

[Q] ZvX what to Play?

Forum Index > Closed
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glrrr
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany2 Posts
June 28 2012 04:06 GMT
#1
Hey, it's time to ask for some help from this awesome community, since im really clueless what to play in all match up's.

I used to be a Plat/Dia Zerg on the EU Server when the Spanishiwa aka ice Fisher build was a important part of the Metagame like months ago. Now i feel very disapointed with the current builds, just because i don't like the current ones for some reasons.

I don't like to take a fast 3rd Base in ZvP for example because im a really aggressive player aswell i don't do it in ZvT for the same reason. I want to be aggressive by the first minute and i can't see a option to execute the current "working" Builds with being a aggressive Zerg. Im only okay with the ZvZ since i like to go for 14/14 etc.

I already checked out some latest Threads but they doesn't match with my style, im a straight up macro player but i want to do aggression aswell, always pressure, run by's and stuff.

So i hope to get some inspiration by anyone, i also care about "unknown" players alot so if there replays or guids around i would love to check them out. And im really looking forward to learn and master one Build for one match up step by step.


Thanks for reading, thanks in advance and please don't blame me for my first Thread.
Glisser ♥
theFog
Profile Joined December 2010
United States6 Posts
June 28 2012 04:19 GMT
#2
Personally Stephano's style appeals to me. His ZvP is very popular and easy to execute, though it isn't aggressive before 11 minutes, once you hit that point you can be pretty relentless. Here is a link to the day9 daily that was recently posted on the topic. http://blip.tv/day9tv/day-9-daily-472-p1-stephano-s-fast-max-zvp-6192327

If that doesn't appeal to you, there are a lot of early aggression opportunities in the current ZvP meta, with Forge fast expand being so popular you can do early roach pushes to try and do crippling damage, a player named Tang posted a few guides on this type of play style. He also has other guides on All-ins and early aggression, so that might be more what you are looking for.

Stephano is also quite aggressive in his ZvT. You can download replays of him playing at the RedBull Battleground on his Fan Page http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228601 I think there are 4 or 5 examples of his ZvT in that pack. He does an aggressive 2 base roach/baneling attack while taking his third.

Hope that some of these options help you. Searching [G]ZvX will also let you just look through all the guides that have been posted, some may be out of date, but most of their principles will still apply.
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
June 28 2012 04:22 GMT
#3
If you are looking for agressive 2 base play then search for TangSC's guides.
Belial88
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-28 04:29:28
June 28 2012 04:24 GMT
#4
I don't like to take a fast 3rd Base in ZvP for example because im a really aggressive player


That's like saying you don't like to take your natural when playing Toss or Terran.

You can search plenty of all-ins and cheeses, and my ZvP and ZvT guides include every modern all-in and cheese in them, and my 'How to stop 6 pool" guide also goes in-depth on how to actually do the best 6/7/8 pool possible.

You would probably be better suited to Terran, a race that can keep up production of units while making tech and econ, since unit production/tech production doesn't hamper SCV production (generally), or Toss, a race best suited for chrono boosting. Zerg is more about defensive macro play, using scouting to react and defend using the bare minimum, and then exploding with multiple options once at 75+ drones on 3 base (to be fair, by that time any t/p will have established enough to limit your options to much less, but theoretically speaking, you have a lot of options).

14/14 also really isn't used much at high level play in ZvZ, and it hasn't been used at all recently in the gsl/gstl. It's still viable even up to code s level, you aren't that far behind, but players now better know how to defend and exploit that 5 drone difference. There's just not much reason to not go hatch first anymore in zvz, especially with the queen buff and lack of maps like TDA and Belshir around on the touranment scene.

Stephano is also quite aggressive in his ZvT. You can download replays of him playing at the RedBull Battleground on his Fan Page http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228601 I think there are 4 or 5 examples of his ZvT in that pack. He does an aggressive 2 base roach/baneling attack while taking his third.


roach/bane all-in is exactly that, an all-in. Recommending that is like recommending someone to baneling bust, another very strong all-in that can be stopped and can't really be denied scouting of by a good terran. It isn't as popular as it was 3 months ago, and Suhosin, the guy who really used it the most imo in the gsl, has fallen out and got stomped pretty hard. It's still a viable all-in, just like baneling busting, but there's a time and place for it. As I recommend in my ZvT guide.

And Stephano's roach max style is really outdated. Stephano does it rarely nowadays, and Toss are really good at defending it now, especially with maps like Cloud kingdom or Entombed. It's very all-in as well, and I talk about it in my ZvP guide too.

The metagame has evolved a lot, and back when SC2 first was released, taking your natural as Zerg was considered extremely dangerous (this was back when you had to have speed before expanding in zvt and stuff like that). Now, with better scouting by Zerg (hey no expansion on the low ground by 35 supply, your all-inning! no question about it) and about 2 years of fixes, taking your third isn't considered dangerous (as long as terran went CC first/1 rax FE, or Toss took his natural).

Good luck though. Tang would probably disagree with everything I wrote here, and I think he's around the same level as me, maybe higher. You can check out his guides around TL. But all I really see you saying is "I just want to all-in and I don't like taking my third", and taking your third is very standard for zerg now. Saying you don't want to take your third as zerg is like saying you dont want to make an expansion to your natural as T/P, or saying you dont like making your spawning pool.
How to build a $500 i7-3770K Ultimate Computer:http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=392709 ******** 100% Safe Razorless Delid Method! http://www.overclock.net/t/1376206/how-to-delid-your-ivy-bridge-cpu-with-out-a-razor-blade/0_100
Jaxtyk
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States600 Posts
June 28 2012 04:24 GMT
#5
The Zerg meta isn't about playing aggressive but more like droning and then killing your opponent mid/late game. As theFog said, try out stephano's ZvP style. You max out in 12 minutes with roaches and can proceed to A move the toss.
To tell the truth....I could beat anyone in the world.
ErrorNA
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
June 28 2012 04:42 GMT
#6
Well here is how i learned to play zerg(well at least) Intimate ZvX with Stoic. He is a GM zerg doing free weekly tutorial videos. he plays solid standard macro games. he has a mechanics video that you can just find on youtube: Mechanics vs all races.. Check it out it is very informative.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
June 28 2012 04:43 GMT
#7
On June 28 2012 13:24 Belial88 wrote:
Show nested quote +
I don't like to take a fast 3rd Base in ZvP for example because im a really aggressive player


That's like saying you don't like to take your natural when playing Toss or Terran.

You can search plenty of all-ins and cheeses, and my ZvP and ZvT guides include every modern all-in and cheese in them, and my 'How to stop 6 pool" guide also goes in-depth on how to actually do the best 6/7/8 pool possible.

You would probably be better suited to Terran, a race that can keep up production of units while making tech and econ, since unit production/tech production doesn't hamper SCV production (generally), or Toss, a race best suited for chrono boosting. Zerg is more about defensive macro play, using scouting to react and defend using the bare minimum, and then exploding with multiple options once at 75+ drones on 3 base (to be fair, by that time any t/p will have established enough to limit your options to much less, but theoretically speaking, you have a lot of options).

14/14 also really isn't used much at high level play in ZvZ, and it hasn't been used at all recently in the gsl/gstl. It's still viable even up to code s level, you aren't that far behind, but players now better know how to defend and exploit that 5 drone difference. There's just not much reason to not go hatch first anymore in zvz, especially with the queen buff and lack of maps like TDA and Belshir around on the touranment scene.

Show nested quote +
Stephano is also quite aggressive in his ZvT. You can download replays of him playing at the RedBull Battleground on his Fan Page http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=228601 I think there are 4 or 5 examples of his ZvT in that pack. He does an aggressive 2 base roach/baneling attack while taking his third.


roach/bane all-in is exactly that, an all-in. Recommending that is like recommending someone to baneling bust, another very strong all-in that can be stopped and can't really be denied scouting of by a good terran. It isn't as popular as it was 3 months ago, and Suhosin, the guy who really used it the most imo in the gsl, has fallen out and got stomped pretty hard. It's still a viable all-in, just like baneling busting, but there's a time and place for it. As I recommend in my ZvT guide.

And Stephano's roach max style is really outdated. Stephano does it rarely nowadays, and Toss are really good at defending it now, especially with maps like Cloud kingdom or Entombed. It's very all-in as well, and I talk about it in my ZvP guide too.

The metagame has evolved a lot, and back when SC2 first was released, taking your natural as Zerg was considered extremely dangerous (this was back when you had to have speed before expanding in zvt and stuff like that). Now, with better scouting by Zerg (hey no expansion on the low ground by 35 supply, your all-inning! no question about it) and about 2 years of fixes, taking your third isn't considered dangerous (as long as terran went CC first/1 rax FE, or Toss took his natural).

Good luck though. Tang would probably disagree with everything I wrote here, and I think he's around the same level as me, maybe higher. You can check out his guides around TL. But all I really see you saying is "I just want to all-in and I don't like taking my third", and taking your third is very standard for zerg now. Saying you don't want to take your third as zerg is like saying you dont want to make an expansion to your natural as T/P, or saying you dont like making your spawning pool.

Don't even feel like responding to this.

Also, closing this thread, because it doesn't follow the strategy forum guidelines. The kind of question you asked here would best be asked in the Zerg Help Me Thread.
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