Will mafia pick which one on their team gets the role or is that randomized?

I don't know if I fully understand the framer role so help me out here. He can visit ONE player during the night and then he can choose what alignment and role this player will show up as to cop. Additionally, he may make it look like the target player visited any other player in the game to the tracker. Do I understand it correctly? Can he visit himself?

Do scum pick a guy to carry out night hits that tracker can see?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 28 2012 22:07 GMT

#26

Do scum get to vote for what role they're gonna get too or is it only "town"?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 28 2012 23:20 GMT

#29

On May 29 2012 08:18 Radfield wrote:
Do we get to talk during the selection phase?

On May 29 2012 04:32 kitaman27 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yessir.

^_^

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 11:01 GMT

#73

Since the mafia role selection is done in PMs and we're not going to have the voting results or the role itself revealed, scum is free to do whatever. There are only two ways to know for sure what role mafia got and that is 1) to get majority+3 voting for a single role and 2) flip the scum who got the role. talismania's encrypted vote idea should be implemented because it's never going to hurt and it will create some content that we can use for analysis.

Regarding the roles: Godfather is the safest because scum can only use it in two ways (have Godfather carry out night kills or not), this will make for the least confusion among potential town blues. Framer is the worst to give them because it will allow scum (and also townies and blues) to question all checks made by cop/tracker. Role blocker is also potentially useful for scum, especially in connection with claims (and counterclaims and fake claims) which I think could become very important this game.

Will anybody get told if they are roleblocked?

I think it's more beneficial for town to reach majority+3 consensus on a role than it is for mafia that we do it. So I think we should all agree that Godfather is the safest thing we can do because it allows for the least manipulation by scum and the simplest logic always applying for town. The only down side is that potential cop can't always trust town checks but that's very much acceptable. I don't think scum will focus much on the role that they get when they consider the roles that they give us.

Can scum pick two of the same role to give to town or do they have to pick two different roles?

As for the poison, my thoughts have already been stated. We should try to eliminate poisons that get stronger as early as possible. Majority+1 and secret vote are the best candidates for this. Here are my thoughts (list is malleable):

Use first: Majority+1, secret vote, secret ballot
Use in the mid game: Mayoral election, lynch lock
Use at LYLO or late game: No flip, 24 hour lynch

Some people already said that we will be at even number players all game long baring medic saves, but vigilantes could also screw this up. Also, the no flip is not only alignment, it is also role which may suck since we cannot know if we killed the Godfather or just a goon.

@Kurumi Could you give us the reason behind your thoughts?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 13:31 GMT

#92

Okay I'm convinced by Radfield. Either we get investigative roles we can trust, or we get roles from vigilante/medic/child pool which is pretty sweet. Both child and vigilante can easily confirm themselves and a medic save would extend the game by a full day.

Anyway, I'm voting for role blocker. I was a little worried about role blocker interfering with power roles but the chance of even hitting power roles isn't that big and we shouldn't rely on them too much anyway.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 14:16 GMT

#96

@Sbrubbles You say it yourself, it's a huge risk for them to try to rig anything so they're not going to do it.

It's very important for town that we know what role we give them today to eliminate any sort of confusion. If we don't know what role we give them, then they can just argue as if they had any role, and town will just argue along with them. While it's very hard, I think it's very very important that we get a majority+3 on their role so we are absolutely sure what they got. This is even more important than what they end up getting.

Tracker/Medic/Roleblocker combination sounds pretty good to me. What do you mean "without fear of the tracker caliming"?

@Radfield What do you mean "scum are going to lie about their votes anyway"?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 14:44 GMT

#99

On May 30 2012 23:18 risk.nuke wrote:
Just a thought, if scum votes anything but 1-1-1 in a secret vote it opens up the posssibility for them to get busted for lying.

I don't understand this. How does that open up the possibility for them to get busted for lying?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 20:28 GMT

#125

Do scum get to vote for what role they get?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 20:51 GMT

#130

I'm going to vote for the secret hidden vote. I think that will be more useful in close races and I don't think that day1 will be two bandwagons, but a single person who will be up for lynch and then we'll see if we can get enough votes for him.

@wherebugsgo What claims will roleblocker stop? You say that scum can just role block a tracker if he claims and they will not have to kill him, but they don't have to kill him with godfather either. The good thing is that we can trust investigative roles. You say that scum will never choose vigilante or innocent child, but will they ever choose 1-shot cop or tracker if we give them a role blocker? If not, then we will actually get at least one of those roles you say they'll never give us which is good. If they do, then we can trust their results, 1-shot cop would pretty much claim day2 and scum will not be able to kill him 'cause then they'd confirm his check. If we give them a role blocker then tracker shouldn't even claim unless he's got something juicy.

What role do you think we should give scum?

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 20:54 GMT

#131

On May 31 2012 05:40 slOosh wrote:

Show nested quote +

You already got an answer prplhz. What are your current thoughts for today?

That's a pretty generic question. I just think it's a little crazy that scum don't even get to vote, then it's really just going to be up to town and we're going to pick whatever.

I also have no idea why Radfield is so much against encrypting our votes. It will do absolutely no harm and it might help us out.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 20:56 GMT

#133

Bluelightz says that scum votes for town's role and town votes for scum's role, but not that scum don't vote for town's role. The reason why I was confused about this in the first place is because the OP actually says "town votes for scum role" and I don't know if "town" actually includes scum. I'm still a little confused but everybody seems to think that scum don't vote so I guess that they don't.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 22:44 GMT

#141

@Radfield It helps because scum apparently don't get to vote for what role they get. This means that the only way they can make sure that they can't get caught not having a vote is if they split it 1-1-1. Sbrubbles already showed a scenario where we could tell something about alignments based on what people voting and encouraging everybody to encrypt their votes in the thread before voting ensures that scum can't lie about it based on what role they actually ended up with.

I agree that it's a long shot but you seem weirdly against it instead of just going along with it. There's zero chance of harming town and a chance of getting some information about scum. Just do it man.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 30 2012 23:28 GMT

#153

+ Show Spoiler [vote] +

##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/
ZZZZZ AXVQC OQTIL SAFUK IBHUC VHSFS HWJKE MWFTI IEQXP OVLUV GBRQO
VRXCE MNOTG LLPBP BFODR HHRMT JWWMQ GCLPC PMNJM SVFVN OZZZZ YYYYY
##### End encrypted message

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 31 2012 09:07 GMT

#170

On May 31 2012 08:28 prplhz wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [vote] +

My key is "brettmichaels" (the guy in the OP banner) and I voted for roleblocker.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 31 2012 12:51 GMT

#175

Uh I was pretty sure I wrote this earlier but apparently I didn't.

People who encrypted their votes can "confirm" whatever they voted, people who didn't encrypt their votes can't. So people who encrypted their votes should really wait until everybody else has said what they voted for. If all the encrypters are town and we claim all of our votes first then this whole scheme would go down the drain because the scum will know the final vote tally. It's not like we need this information pronto anyway.

Yea, I know I already wrote my vote but I didn't think of it until after that.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 31 2012 12:59 GMT

#177

Oh. Well never mind then.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 31 2012 15:38 GMT

#179

Well, let me say that I am very disappointed in wherebugsgo so far. It doesn't look like he cares about town winning this game at all.

In his first post he asks host a question, but he never got an answer to that question even though I got an answer to my questions that I posted later. That didn't bother him at all. His participates in the discussion about poisons and his thoughts are alright but it doesn't look like he cares at all what role we pick for mafia. This is bad because if we end up with split wagons then we cannot know what role they have and they'll end up being able to argue for any role. 1-shot claims and has a green check? They can argue that he checked the godfather. Red check? They can argue that he was framed. They'll be able to push a chaotic agenda way easier than if we know what role they got. Scum knows town roles and the only way town can know scum role is if we get majority+3 or a flip but wherebugsgo doesn't seem to care about majority+3. He doesn't seem to mind if the votes are split evenly across roleblocker+framer at all.

He looks like he doesn't care at all about what happens this game and I that's scummy.

prplhz

Denmark8045 Posts

May 31 2012 16:25 GMT

#182

Yea this doesn't look like his typical scum play.

But wherebugsgo isn't generally this lazy as town either, so we've got a wherebugsgo who is going against his town and his scum meta. Meta isn't something that can be used against wherebugsgo in my opinion, so I'm just going to read his filter and see if it's scummy or townie and I think that he looks like he doesn't care about this game at all and that's scummy. He's not the only one I'm looking at though if you're worried about that.

@Toadesstern What do you think about it? You are acting as if my post had "Toadesstern" in place of all the "wherebugsgo"s. You are saying that you want more content and that the thread is in a bad state, and then you say that you're not going to do anything until everybody has been in here and told you their vote. That's pretty self contradictory behavior. Give me something.