Apparently a man was shot dead in his car for not obeying police orders of only one cop. I don't really know what are the protocols but if by not obeying cop orders without giving sign that you have a weapon or want to hurt anybody gives the police man the authority to shoot you....damn...
This, also happens as before this week a teen girl was shot in her grandmothers house, and that other lady that got shot 6 times without representing any threat...pff
Dunno about you guys, but it seems, the only way you FOR SURE won't get killed by a cop is by completely following all orders that you are given ( I know the chance of you getting killed or beaten for that are rather close to 0 but it should be actually 0 chances of that happening, not a slight off-chance that that may occur ). This doesn't fall into police brutality category, but rather incompetence of people who are hired to protect the people.
Also the rather bad thing, is that there is no high public preasure when these events occur, whenever something like this happens, get all the community together and make sure the cop is seriously investigated and if found guilty, throw him in jail with a decent time to serve for commiting retarded acts.
Edit: As a side note, it's rather odd to see that violent acts have decreased a lot since the internet all over the world, and ironically now more bad acts are performed by authorities all over the world. It would actually be interesting if some1 came up with a legit statistics compared police brutality/incompetence acts, compared to like 50 years ago ( authorities from middle east, NK , etc are also involved, that's why I'm saying an increase in these kind of things ...)
A dude suggested I should put this up here :
[/quote] Its not like he was just sitting in his car. The opening post not very informative, almost deceptive in nature. He was apparently acting very strange, and who drives to a football field with their daughters at 4AM, crashes through the chain gate, leaves them in the car and disappears for 5 minutes. If I am the officer I am extremely concerned for the kids as he is coming back to the car and not responding to police orders and trying to get in. I mean that seems to scream suicide, suicide murder or something. Hopefully his daughters age 14 and 9 will be able to explain. Either way feel terrible for them, seeing your father shot has to be one of the worst things that could possible happen to a child.[/QUOTE]
This needs to be explicitly added in to the OP, or else we're going to have another shitfest about how police officers *always* abuse their power. This was clearly not an abuse of police power.
EDIT: Case in point:
On February 14 2012 21:38 shizna wrote: as rediculous as it sounds, i don't think police should be allowed to wield a gun until they've been trained to the level of harry callahan.
moronic cop + gun = bad stuff
[/QUOTE]
With that being added, I still think it was the police officer's fault with a probability of 1% of being wrong imo.
Sad to hear :/ and the paragraph about not resisting orders is pretty spot on. I've never heard of a situation where resisting the cops worked out to the civilian's benefit. The amount of authority they wield outside of the courtroom feels pretty absolute. To serve and protect seems more like serve me and I may not fuck with you.
On February 14 2012 20:13 bOneSeven wrote: It would actually be interesting if some1 came up with a legit statistics compared police brutality/incompetence acts, compared to like 50 years ago ( authorities from middle east, NK , etc are also involved, that's why I'm saying an increase in these kind of things ...)
You're not actually from Romania, are you? Because people got beat up by police for saying the wrong stuff all the time 30 or 40 years ago.
About 4:30 a.m. on the day of the shooting, the deputy was doing paperwork inside his car near San Clemente High School when he said he saw Loggins driving a white GMC Yukon at an "unsafe, high rate of speed" into the school parking lot, Amormino said. The SUV, according to Amormino, crashed through a locked gate and the deputy pulled in behind him.
Loggins walked onto the football field, and about three to four deputies arrived to set up a perimeter, Amormino said. The deputies said they lost sight of Loggins for about five minutes, and when he reappeared, he walked toward the car and climbed inside, ignoring deputies' commands, Amormino said.
Its not like he was just sitting in his car. The opening post not very informative, almost deceptive in nature. He was apparently acting very strange, and who drives to a football field with their daughters at 4AM, crashes through the chain gate, leaves them in the car and disappears for 5 minutes. If I am the officer I am extremely concerned for the kids as he is coming back to the car and not responding to police orders and trying to get in. I mean that seems to scream suicide, suicide murder or something. Hopefully his daughters age 14 and 9 will be able to explain. Either way feel terrible for them, seeing your father shot has to be one of the worst things that could possible happen to a child.
The details haven't been released so why bother discussing the justification of it based purely on speculation?
btw I don't think you should have omitted the part that the guy was fleeing from police and crashed through a gate. You make it sound like he was pulled over for speeding and was shot because he went to get his registration when a cop told him not too. Obviously when you flee from police the cops are going to get a whole lot more trigger happy as you've already demonstrated you won't be taken down without a fight.
Awesome, let's criticize an officer involved shooting without knowing ANY of the details! And let's make it seem worse by sprinkling how the marine received good conduct medals while in-service as if it has any bearing on what his conduct was at the time. YAY! The public has no idea what happened, but let's make it sound like a bad shoot so more people read my article and go to the office and talk to there cubicle buddies about how crazy police officers are.
Also, let's put everyone's completely different experiences with different police officers all over the world who have different ways /policies of policing, and make it seem like we have an idea of how police are trained in use of force.
Until the details are unveiled on a shooting, there is no way you can scrutinize it.
According to the story he was "traveling at a high rate of speed" and "crashed through a locked gate". The deputy followed him and got a few more to come "set up a perimeter". Apparently he was climbing back into the car "ignoring orders", and "made a statement to the deputy" which they won't elaborate on.
Now I am in no way saying it was ok for him the shoot the man. But I also have no idea what really happened. The deputy said ""The real threat that was perceived was the safety of the children," but is shooting the father really the best solution to this? Absolutely freaking not.
Edit: I agree with the posters above me, the topic is a little bit deceiving in it's nature of writing. Read the articles to get more info before forming an opinion please.
Edit2: I mean the info on this is so jumbled. The articles themselves seem to contradict themselves on key points. For example. Later in the article where it says he's climbing back into his vehicle, it says something completely different that he was simply headed back towards his vehicle, and this, for some unknown reason made the officer feel threatened.
Here in the UK we have armed officers, they go out on patrol sometimes, they are armed with tazers, submachine guns & 9mm handguns, in my home town of Nottingham, which is famous for knife / gun crime there hasnt been a single shot fired on duty by armed officers.
Tazers have been used, and if a situation is looking to turn violent a tazer will be called in.
It strikes me that arming all officers with handguns will inevitably lead to people getting needlessly killed, just because the officer will feel overconfident and get himself in situations where he has to use it or he will misread a situation and open fire believing he was acting appropriately, and those thankfully very very rare but unfortunate cases where an officer is abusing his power.
Obviously we don't know the full situation, and I do often feel like theres an antipolice sentiment to this kind of news whenever its done, especially in the UK and 99% of the time the officer wasn't acting out of malice or anything, he just responded to a situation in a way that he felt was appropriate with the tools he was given.
On February 14 2012 20:41 Terrix wrote: Now I am in no way saying it was ok for him the shoot the man. But I also have no idea what really happened. The deputy said ""The real threat that was perceived was the safety of the children," but is shooting the father really the best solution to this? Absolutely freaking not.
... hard to know that the deputy knew he was the father, or that it was safe.
I am not making a judgment either way but the OP is quite biased.
@hyper it's called totalitarianism so yeah lol. @blackjack since when if you run from police, they have authority to shot to kill if you don't represent a legit threat ? The report didn't even mention that the officers suspected the man had a weapon ( he didn't, just saying that the police there said that the cop didnt suspect a gun ).
When you represent "serve and protect" and kill a suspect that doesn't show signs of having a weapon/directly being a threat to anyone before his 14/9 years old children .... If that is not horrible , then what is ? If you really stay and think about it...it's an extremely horrible thing, imagine how the children will evolve from that state on...
Edit: Notice I didn't mention in my OP that the guy had medals or anything ( I don' care if you saved the world, if you go after that and kill 10 people you can rot in jail ). And about a serious investigation and new news .... have fun finding any without real public pressure ( hope I'm wrong and some new info pops out, but since it happened 4-5 days ago and nothing came up recently....)
On February 14 2012 20:13 bOneSeven wrote: t it seems, the only way you FOR SURE won't get killed by a cop is by completely following all orders that you are given
Crazy I know, just imagine following orders, so weird (lol). This post is a complete joke. More crimes committed by authority figures? Can you pull out some more unproven statements or opinions with anecdotal evidence ? Not to mention we know virtually nothing about the situation that each require a careful, in-depth look.
On February 14 2012 20:48 Rae wrote: "Amormino said that Loggins made statements to the deputy before he was shot. He would not elaborate."
Those statements could have been anything from completely harmless to "I'm going to get my gun and shoot you"
There's simply not enough information to make a call on this yet.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. There is nowhere near enough information for people to make a judgement on this. Yes it's absolutely terrible that a devout respectful upstanding marine and father of 2 3 (with another on the way) was shot and killed by an officer. But nobody knows if he had some problem and was seriously threatening the officer. We simply don't have enough information.
On February 14 2012 20:45 bOneSeven wrote: @hyper it's called totalitarianism so yeah lol. @blackjack since when if you run from police, they have authority to shot to kill if you don't represent a legit threat ? The report didn't even mention that the officers suspected the man had a weapon ( he didn't, just saying that the police there said that the cop didnt suspect a gun ).
When you represent "serve and protect" and kill a suspect that doesn't show signs of having a weapon/directly being a threat to anyone before his 14/9 years old children .... If that is not horrible , then what is ? If you really stay and think about it...it's an extremely horrible thing, imagine how the children will evolve from that state on...
Edit: Notice I didn't mention in my OP that the guy had medals or anything ( I don' care if you saved the world, if you go after that and kill 10 people you can rot in jail ). And about a serious investigation and new news .... have fun finding any without real public pressure ( hope I'm wrong and some new info pops out, but since it happened 4-5 days ago and nothing came up recently....)
Who are you to say what represents a legit threat?
On February 14 2012 20:45 bOneSeven wrote: @hyper it's called totalitarianism so yeah lol. @blackjack since when if you run from police, they have authority to shot to kill if you don't represent a legit threat ? The report didn't even mention that the officers suspected the man had a weapon ( he didn't, just saying that the police there said that the cop didnt suspect a gun ).
When you represent "serve and protect" and kill a suspect that doesn't show signs of having a weapon/directly being a threat to anyone before his 14/9 years old children .... If that is not horrible , then what is ? If you really stay and think about it...it's an extremely horrible thing, imagine how the children will evolve from that state on...
Edit: Notice I didn't mention in my OP that the guy had medals or anything ( I don' care if you saved the world, if you go after that and kill 10 people you can rot in jail ). And about a serious investigation and new news .... have fun finding any without real public pressure ( hope I'm wrong and some new info pops out, but since it happened 4-5 days ago and nothing came up recently....)
Who are you to say what represents a legit threat?
Man I love how this video gets posted in EVERY SINGLE ONE of the cop brutality style threads. This happened, one in a million, so now cops automatically shoot people if they feel at all threatened. Strong logic.
EPT
