EPTThat said - did anyone else read the headline "Marine killed by OC" and click this thread to find out how an orbital command killed a marine?
Marine killed by O.C. sheriff’s deputy - Page 3
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Chocobo
United States1108 Posts
That said - did anyone else read the headline "Marine killed by OC" and click this thread to find out how an orbital command killed a marine? | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On February 14 2012 21:04 Paperplane wrote: I dunno how that incident is relevant to this case. It's a different scenario and we don't even know what happened here yet. It's a different scenario only if you're looking at the results. In both cases they are acting irrationally, disobeying an officer's commands, saying "something" to the officer, and then reaching or climbing into their vehicles. The OP is insisting that the officer should do the exact same thing that the officer did in the video he was murdered. Do nothing until he gets his gun out. Edit: might have misread something | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
On February 14 2012 23:02 Chocobo wrote: Pretty messed up story. Can't believe there's still no responsibility for the cops who do this stuff in the year 2012. That said - did anyone else read the headline "Marine killed by OC" and click this thread to find out how an orbital command killed a marine? If the context wasn't so bad I'd say this would definately qualify as a good post for the "You know you play too much Starcraft when..." thread. | ||
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Paperplane
Netherlands1823 Posts
On February 14 2012 23:11 BlackJack wrote: It's relevant because the OP is insisting that it's never justified to shoot someone unless they have a gun in their hands. I'm showing what happens when you wait for them to have a gun in their hands. It's a different scenario only if you're looking at the results. In both cases they are acting irrationally, disobeying an officer's commands, saying "something" to the officer, and then reaching or climbing into their vehicles. The OP is insisting that the officer should do the exact same thing that the officer did in the video he was murdered. Do nothing until he gets his gun out. They're both very black and white points of view though. An officer has every right to defend himself and prevent a dangerous situation from happening. You make it sound like it's shoot or get shot in every case. You can't just go around shooting people in case they might grab a gun. | ||
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Pika Chu
Romania2510 Posts
On February 14 2012 20:35 hypercube wrote: You're not actually from Romania, are you? Because people got beat up by police for saying the wrong stuff all the time 30 or 40 years ago. Romania's police was and still is brutal and abuse its powers. Ironic or not, back in the totalitarism policeman were not allowed to carry guns (people knew its authority and that very bad things happen if you disrespect them). Now policemen do have guns and use them (and everyone views them as stupid parrots, little authority). | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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Zaragon
Sweden235 Posts
It is possible that he threatened to kill the children, in which case the sheriff had to kill or incapacitate him before he could get the car moving or those kids would be dead. That to me seems the most likely explanation—though not by a large margin, there is a long list of possibilities—and then the police is protecting the family of the man by not making the specifics of his threat public. But all of that is just guesswork. It’s possible the sheriff acted completely wrongly, even looked for an excuse to fire, but we don’t know. In any event, I do believe that if the sheriff failed to keep the man from getting back to the road those kids were in danger for their lives, indirectly from the police chase or directly by their father’s hand. I have no clue if the sheriff acted correctly, but that night could definitely have turned out even worse. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
IMO, *if* the real events were as the sheriff's office says, I don't know that the officer was wrong. Maybe he could have shot out the tires, but that doesn't stop a car from moving - it just makes people pull over because it's too dangerous to drive. Plus police officers are only trained to shoot to kill, and only to ever shoot when their life or someone else's is in danger. That said, that only applies if the real events went as the sheriff's office says they did. There's plenty of reason to be skeptical of that until more evidence comes out. No matter what happens, it's terrible for the daughters - I hope they'll be okay, mentally etc. | ||
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nFxion
United States57 Posts
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On February 14 2012 23:18 Paperplane wrote: They're both very black and white points of view though. An officer has every right to defend himself and prevent a dangerous situation from happening. You make it sound like it's shoot or get shot in every case. You can't just go around shooting people in case they might grab a gun. You are right. Of course I never meant to imply that the officer was justified in this case (since we don't have all the details), I only meant to imply that it's sometimes justified to shoot someone even before they arm themselves. Here's a pretty good article about it from a couple weeks ago.. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/290189/when-should-officer-pull-trigger-robert-verbruggen A study was done that found humans are physically incapable of being able to correctly identify a gun and to fire at the suspect holding the gun before the suspect can fire at the officers. This is why most police policies allow cops to shoot someone if they start reaching at their waistline instead of after they've pulled out a gun. | ||
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DreamChaser
1649 Posts
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Paperplane
Netherlands1823 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1599 Posts
Dunno about you guys, but it seems, the only way you FOR SURE won't get killed by a cop is by completely following all orders that you are given ( I know the chance of you getting killed or beaten for that are rather close to 0 but it should be actually 0 chances of that happening, not a slight off-chance that that may occur ). This doesn't fall into police brutality category, but rather incompetence of people who are hired to protect the people. Bold seems to be accurate. They're fucking police officers. We ask them to potentially risk their lives every day, and with that if you choose not to follow orders there is a risk that because they deal with malicious people that they could wind up shooting you. Follow the fucking orders if you didn't do anything wrong then nothing bad will happen to you. | ||
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
On February 14 2012 22:49 bOneSeven wrote: It's also possible that the cop was doing a hard drug or something, I see no reason why should he shot the guy.. Um, you somehow think the cop is the one on drugs? It wasn't the dude who for some reason was driving through gates at 4 AM with his kids in the car then acting generally nuts towards a police officer? | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
i love how since the beginning of the internet, it's been flooded with the anti-government and conspiracy theory bandwagon - all of the internet hipsters jumped on the bandwagon because it was the 'cool thing' void of common sense and logical reasoning. nowadays, it's the cool thing to jump on this new pro-government nanny state bandwagon, void of common sense and logical reasoning. the new generation of hipsters are the same as braindead chauvinistic morons. | ||
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shizna
United Kingdom803 Posts
On February 14 2012 23:38 DannyJ wrote: Um, you somehow think the cop is the one on drugs? It wasn't the dude who for some reason was driving through gates at 4 AM with his kids in the car then acting generally nuts towards a police officer? oh right yeah.... the driver was driving near a school at 4am.... be broke the midnight curfew therefore he deserved to die? your argument is pathetic. the only explicable defense would be if the police officer believed the man to have a gun or weapon and posed an imminent threat to his safety or the safety of the passengers. nothing has been said to indicate anything of the sort, therefore that police guy has no defense. | ||
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targ
Malaysia445 Posts
On February 14 2012 23:02 Chocobo wrote: Pretty messed up story. Can't believe there's still no responsibility for the cops who do this stuff in the year 2012. That said - did anyone else read the headline "Marine killed by OC" and click this thread to find out how an orbital command killed a marine? Ya that was exactly what I thought too. | ||
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Joedaddy
United States1948 Posts
On February 15 2012 00:04 shizna wrote: you can't be expected to obey every command given by a guy in a uniform to avoid getting shot... that's rediculous. the gun is there for a police officer's safety, not for them to wave around like they're law enforcement characters on a crime drama tv show. i love how since the beginning of the internet, it's been flooded with the anti-government and conspiracy theory bandwagon - all of the internet hipsters jumped on the bandwagon because it was the 'cool thing' void of common sense and logical reasoning. nowadays, it's the cool thing to jump on this new pro-government nanny state bandwagon, void of common sense and logical reasoning. the new generation of hipsters are the same as braindead chauvinistic morons. We've got lots of sayings where I'm from. One of them is, "You can be right, or you can be happy." Normally we say that when we're talking about picking and choosing our "fights" with spouses, kids, etc, but I think if we turn it into "You can be right or you can get shot" it applies to this situation as well. Look man, if a cop says do something you do it. Even if you think its a violation of your rights you still comply with the cop's commands and THEN AFTER ITS OVER you can contact your attorney if you feel the cop violated your rights or acted inappropriately. You're not going to prove anything by instigating an argument or escalating the situation in the moment. Its not like cops are telling your wife to get out of the car and service him while you watch. Go out of your way to make the Cop feel safe and in return they will treat you with respect. Edit: Going out of your way to make the cop feel safe doesn't mean you are giving in to "the man" or abandoning your God given rights. They have a dangerous job and deal with jerk offs and assholes every day while they risk their lives to keep the 99% safe. Get pulled over, turn you dome light on if its at night and keep your hands on the wheel in plain sight and then do what he asks. Ez pea-zea | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On February 14 2012 23:18 Pika Chu wrote: Romania's police was and still is brutal and abuse its powers. Ironic or not, back in the totalitarism policeman were not allowed to carry guns (people knew its authority and that very bad things happen if you disrespect them). Now policemen do have guns and use them (and everyone views them as stupid parrots, little authority). Maybe. Just saying that few people in Central Europe think that police brutality increased since the end of Communism. Same goes for other state sponsored violence. The kind of stuff that goes on in Syria or other Arab countries is terrible, but you can't say it's worse than the insanity of the Cultural Revolution or the genocide of Khmer Rouge. The truth is that state backed violence decreased massively in the last 50 years. Not that we should ignore the stuff that does happen, but we should acknowledge the improvements that did happen. | ||
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On February 14 2012 21:17 UisTehSux wrote: Maybe if the article had something.... Hmmmm what to people call it outside of America? In America it's called information. You obviously have come to your own conclusion without considering all of the facts, so why make a post on a forum to spark discussion? It doesn't matter what anyone says because obviously whether it is justified or not, you are going to hate law enforcement. There is nothing wrong with 'shitting' on cops who do horrible things. In fact, if a cop does something and he deserves to be put in jail, yay! He's a scumbag. But until we have information, we don't know if he is a scumbag or not. THIS. and to reiterate the point. Saying "the cop is a scumbag, he must die" without information makes you Worse than the cop (probably). Cops are Forced to make decisions with incomplete information.. and it can end up with innocent people getting killed. We have the ability to wait for as much information as possible (the investigation) before making a decision. If you Don't wait for the information to come in, when you have the option to do so, You are a vicious brute. | ||
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