EPTCurrently sitting out Sleeper Cell Mafia 2 but that looks like it's about to rap up.
Look's like it finished, so I'll be good to go.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia VII
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Currently sitting out Sleeper Cell Mafia 2 but that looks like it's about to rap up. Look's like it finished, so I'll be good to go. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Ok so here are just my thoughts as I read through the thread (going to be pretty peacemeal as I catch up): As for my experience, most recently I played in SNMMIV as scum. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=232826 And before that I played a Vanilla towny in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=227500. I've also read a couple games all the way through I see that next we entered the obligatory Lurker Lynch policy discussion so I will throw in my $.02. We need to approach this in a way where lurkers know they will get lynched if they do not post. Our philosophy should be that someone who is blatantly lurking WILL get lynched unless of these 2 situations happens. 1. Adequate involvement from everyone. I have seen town get so focused on lynching a lurker that when that person becomes active the bandwagon has already started rolling so fast downhill that there's no stopping it. That person ends up being town more often than not. 2. There is an obvious scum slip or we can identify someone almost assuredly as scum. Let's make sure we don't hit a blue in our insistence on lynching someone day 1, if the obvious choice is not there, it's not there. That will be decided much closer to the end of the voting period though. Stay diligent. This poll is comical. I still fail to see the reasoning behind it. While discussion is good, let's not go round and round about that, almost no substantive value to be had. More worrisome than the poll is how quick to the gun ET was. Without formally FoSing, in my opinion you have already semi-accused DoYouHaas, Sloosh, and gumshoe. Do you stand any of these at all? If so which is the most scummy? I don't like it, and by it I mean blasting away with the accuse cannon nonstop. We need to hear from Mannerkiss again definitely. Gumshoe you're absolutely correct about Midnight Gladius's ratio post. What is the easiest way to "contribute" without actually contributing anything thats not common knowledge? Speculate about the setup/discuss the ratios and KP, and inactive lists. Those things are not inherently scummy, but they must be followed up with additional contributions. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Seriously though the purpose of the random ass poll was just to see if the mafia made one big decision or not clarify the real purpose of the poll, i just expected everyone to vote town, than than i would vote mafia and ask which troll said they were mafia but are actually town It was to bait fluffy responses and harsh accusations, which it did,also there was more to the poll if it actually work but that was as I said a shot in the dark So uhh.... what's the purpose of this poll? | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 03:03 gumshoe wrote: All of the above in order, if the vote turned out to be 11/4 i would just remark that the mafia is organized at the beginning of the game and surprisingly honest despite this being an anonymous vote. if the vote turned out to be 14 town I would vote mafia and try to find someone looking for an easy way to prove thier town. if the vote didn't work at all I would just discredit it and wait and see who tried to keep dwelling on it, who would keep talking about how ridicules it was and who would keep saying its a scum post. I had no issue with the poll. What I did have an issue with is that as you gained more and more attention, and were catching more and more heat for the post, your explanation gradually changed to something that you thought we would want to hear. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 05:20 Steveling wrote: Ok, just woke up and caught on the action. So, my view on the whole thing is that we should push for a no lynch day 1. The reasoning: We are close to the night, very close actually and we have zero solid cases on anyone. Yes mannerkiss's weird 1 liner is scummy, also both eche and sloosh became defensive too fast and yes there are some lurkers as well. Nothing we can make a strong case on. But chanses are that we are probably gonna misslynch day1 with the current situation. So the way I see it, we either push for a lurker lynch or a no lynch. And with a no lynch we promote more discussion without losing an unlucky towny, more discussion always benefits the town. What do you guys think? No reason for a no lynch yet big hoss, we've got plenty of time. Ok brahs, now for some case building.... Here's a little fliter you all should check out. DimmuKlok Only three posts so let's investigate. Post #1 + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 15:26 DimmuKlok wrote: Hello everyone, I just finished reading through the thread. I would first like to echo TKHawkins first post about lurking and availability when posting. I've been checking the thread nightly to see if the game had started, and tonight it did. I would not be surprised if the majority of people who haven't posted yet are unaware that the game has started. Now a little bit about myself... This is my first mafia game, and I'm looking forward to it. I really like gumshoe's idea with the report. I'm sure it's already common place, but I recommend everyone make their own private version of it. It's not hard, and it makes it a lot easier to keep track of everyone. I don't have much to contribute yet when it comes to suspicions. It's still too early. - 1st he goes ahead and defends those who had not posted yet, not a huge deal in and of itself but we will see how this is a trend in his postings. - He then goes on to say that we should all have a list of lurkers. That's as scummy as making a list of lurkers but not actually doing the work to update it..... Post #2 + Show Spoiler + On February 17 2012 18:09 DimmuKlok wrote: Alright, lets take a look. MannerKiss: I think it's unanimous that we would like to hear more from him. His first post was a simple one line introduction, and his second was his one line reply to DoYouHas, which was almost humorous in how suspicious it sounded. Jaj22: He was the one that initially started the conversation about lynching lurkers. I don't agree with his stance. I would rather not have a lynch than lynch a lurker on the first day. I'm not sure if his posts are much to be suspicious over, but worth keeping an eye on. Me: I don't see how someone could read my post and think it didn't have a pro-town atmosphere, but that's your opinion. Trackd00r: I found his first post to be useful and agreed with some of what he said. He never contributed again after that, but it's still pretty early. I don't see the anti-town atmosphere in his post. - First he agrees that the person who voted one time should be suspicious.....How incredibly helpful.... - Then he goes on to say he would rather no lynch than lynch a lurker on the first day. As someone posted above, giving the mafia a free kill and leaving in someone who is adding nothing to the town and only creating more confusion is counter productive.... - Denies how someone could think his all fluff no substance post would be scummy at all..... - Follows up with another fluff analysis of Track, saying nothing, making no stance, providing nothing. Post #3 - Immediately retracts his old lynching policy. Even saying "After reading everyone's response I'm convinced we should be looking for someone to lynch, but I do feel we should try to find a good reason to lynch someone before we target lurkers." - Announces that he is still suspicious of MannerKiss, in light of all the recent developments..... (that was sarcasm, of course you would still be suspicious.... he still hasn't posted). - Jumps on the latest flavor of the thread, Gumshoe, and makes a vague, semi accusatory statement. That, ladies and gentleman is what you call a lurker.... a real scummy looking lurker..... | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
| ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 08:20 jaj22 wrote: This thread is terribly quiet. I kinda miss Gumshoe. Status update time: MannerKiss, Zelblade, TKHawkins and EchelonTee haven't shown up yet today. That's going to make it tough to get a majority lynch if they keep the same hours tomorrow. The first three of those have lurked hardcore so far and really need to post. DimmuKlok hasn't posted since the case against him, which is increasingly scummy behaviour. I'd recommend that he posts some reads (not MannerKiss/Gumshoe: too easy) rather than defending it directly, but posting with substance is essential. Let him respond as he normally would... | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 18 2012 08:20 jaj22 wrote: MannerKiss, Zelblade, TKHawkins and EchelonTee haven't shown up yet today. That's going to make it tough to get a majority lynch if they keep the same hours tomorrow. The first three of those have lurked hardcore so far and really need to post. These guys are really putting us in a tough spot. Can't make reads without posts. Look forward to Steveling and Dimmu's post though. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Echelon Tree - I don't buy this case as it stands. He's active, hes promoting discussion. I have gotten little to no scum tells off of him yet. Doesn't seem like a good target, for today at least. Gumshoe - Sapping up a lot of the towns attention, unnecessarily I think. In my opinion we should definitely be looking at those him pressuring namely, Steve and Midnight. DimmuKlok - His response to my case was horrendous to say the least, even after Jaj slipped and told him exactly how to respond. In my mind there's only one choice here. #Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
forgot to bold ##Vote: DimmuKlok | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
DoYouHaas I disagree about Dimmu's response. Seems to me like he checked the thread, saw a post about him, made a VERY lack luster response, and now that there is no more pressure on him and it's apparent he's safe, hes gone away again. You also have to remember that he did all this while providing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the town the entire first day cycle. The only thing that worries me is that he might be too scummy at this point. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 19 2012 07:24 EchelonTee wrote: Dimmuklok responded adequately to Alderan's post, which was similar to mine. DYH and sloosh need more info as far as I'm concerned, so that only leaves: Can someone please explain this sentiment? Am I missing something? To my case he responded: "I'm new, I'm new, I don't understand your case, I'm new." His play after my case: "I'm still on my gumshoe wagon, I don't know what to think about Midnight, I don't know what I think about Hawkin and Manner, and I'm too tired to give an opinion on Steveling" If someone can please point me to the direction of pro town play I would greatly appreciate it. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
I stand by my play though, I think the reads were pretty clearly scum. Reminder: When you are being accused, STAY ACTIVE, the more you give us the more we can find out about you. If you are town and you stay active generally this will be identified. I think everyone needs to focus on the hour running up to the vote. There was a lot of action and activity that probably didn't get %100 attention. I'm to check out the voting records, specifically the correlation between who came off of MG and ET and on what basis. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
He came out of the gates getting in a multi page argument with Sloosh, later to be dropped because he felt that Sloosh was not actually scum, only to end up hardline voting on Sloosh even when the town was in danger of not getting a lynch. Any analysis about that vote though is going to WIFOM, so I say this his play been suspicious but not enough to lynch yet, I'm glad it didn't happen today. I think we definitely should take a closer look though. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 20 2012 02:52 gumshoe wrote: If anyone has any questions ask. Otherwise I'll start making a case for who I DONT think is mafia. I'm not getting on your case, but don't do this. It is of no use to the town to discuss who is not mafia as it will only serve to confuse, and then even if a consensus is reached it gives mafia a blatant target to kill. Work through in your own head about who is town. Pointing out flaws in the arguments of those attacking someone you believe to be town is fine, but lists of town players is generally bad news bears. I've got work today till 7 or 8 EST (weekdays are much better for me than weekends in terms of activity). | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
Ok so here's some voting analysis I did about the Day 1 vote. In the last 30 minutes of voting 7 people Switched to Dimmuklok in this order: Trapd00r MidnightGladius Zelblade Jaj22 Sloosh TKHawkins EchelonTree This is a kind of switch that I have never seen before, and what it tells me is that mafia were extremely scared to no lynch or we were previously targeting a scum member. The leader prior to the lynch was EchelonTree who was coincidentally the lynch pin in the voting (pun definitely intended). Situation 1. Fear of no lynch: Mafia feels confident they are not being targeted in the least, and thus starts pushing whomever they feel like they can get votes on to. The only concise and irrefutable case at the time was mine on Dimmuklok so it was a perfect fit. The voting was in dissaray, so much so that MidnightGladius even makes the comment that the only people that are going to be able to be lynched are him and EchelonTree, so we need to decide something. Then Trapd00r leads off with the "Oh hey, Alderan's case was pretty good, lets take it into consideration now". 20 minutes later, we have a misslynch. Situation 2. EchelonTree is scum This situation hinges around the idea that ET was leading the voting prior to the end of the day, and managed a 20 minute shift of votes to, for better or worse, let him live another day. The idea is this then (this one get's a little WIFOMy but bear with me, it's logical), mafia are scrambling, looking for any case they can get a bandwagon on, identify mine, and jump on it using the town's fear of a no lynch as leverage to save their own and lynch a towny. Those not voting for ET that switched to Dimmuklok- - Sloosh - Zelblade - EchelonTree Note about Situation 2: Trapd00r seems more town in this situation than in Situation 1 as he had a vote cast on ET and was one of the major ET critics. Can't rule him out completely, but definitely if Situation 2 is correct he is leaning town. Well which do you think, Alderan? Well, I think situation 1 is the most logical in that everyone pretty much knew at the time of the vote that there going to be a no lynch unless a drastic change was made, so scum supporting ET would not have created a huge movement off of him, because that can only raise suspicions. This is WIFOM of course, which is why I listed both options instead of just Scenario 1. My next post will be analysis of Trapd00r, which should give us a nudge in the right direction about which of these cases happened. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 21 2012 01:27 Mattchew wrote: does anyone else find it really fucking weird that we went from 5 on ET to lynching DK in less than an hour? See above big hoss. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
On February 20 2012 06:03 MidnightGladius wrote: My next case will be on Alderan: Alderan's behavior strikes me as strange for a few broad reasons, and there are some details that also don't fit. He is the first to nominate DimmuKlok as our lurker candidate of choice, but the fact that he actually went ahead and made a "case" - a point-by-point analysis of only three posts - is completely superfluous. PBPA is never helpful, as Alderan should know, considering that he's had two games of playing experience and has read through several others. He soft-defends gumshoe, claiming that his play is too elaborate to be scum, and that the town's attention on him is "unnecessary." In addition, he says to look at those pressuring gumshoe (Steve and I), but he never follows through on that. Then, after the lynch, he says that he's going to be doing vote analysis, which sounds like a great idea, but then that also never materializes. He has since provided a null read on DYH and nothing else. In its totality, Alderan's posts are lacking in what I consider to be actual contributions to the town, and the way he pushed DimmuKlok seemed much too emphatic compared to the rest of his reads he's made so far. He hasn't followed up on several of his claims, and has instead provided several bits of fluff, like "stay active when accused." Now would be a good time to take your own advice. Took me a while to find this, but I'll address it quickly. - I disagree that PBPA is never helpful.... I think if it's 20 posts then yes it's nearly impossible to deal with, but the kid had three posts. I did PBPA to draw attention to that fact. - I don't think gumshoe is scum. I will stand by this. - Vote analysis was late, like I said weekends are no good for me generally. - You should not be posting everything you discover when town. There are obvious reasons for this. I give one away in a post a while back. | ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
| ||
|
Alderan
United States463 Posts
"... scum are utilizing the town's 'OH SHIT WE BETTER GET A LYNCH'" | ||
| ||
