• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:23
CEST 18:23
KST 01:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 234ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon435.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation0
StarCraft 2
General
MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool 60% Keyboards Viable for Starcraft? Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf BW General Discussion
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9959 users

[G] PvP- 4G, why you should never lose to it......

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-04 03:49:56
December 25 2011 05:06 GMT
#1
...on maps with a 2ndary ramp (for ladder, shak, antigua, one of those new ones.. the twilight one :p)

This will be a short guide. A cute little nAni build will be included as well! Consider it an Easter egg, a Christmas ornament as it were.

The meat
+ Show Spoiler +
Here is a generic opener that gets you a 2nd gas at a reasonable time (21 food, not too shabby), and can go into whatever style you'd like.

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
14 Gas
15 Pylon
17 Core
18 Zealot
21 Gas (2nd)
22 Stalker + wg (don't cb stalker; ~3 cb on WG should be fine. You just need to be able to get out a 2nd sentry with WG in time for the 2nd forcefield and that is all!)
25 Pylon (make sure you start this @100 mins!!
26 Stalker; CB it!!!
29 Tech structure of your choice! or additional gates if youre a scaredy cat
30 Sentry

This will net you a zealot and 2 stalkers by the time any kind of approach comes. Get to the 2ndary ramp asap!

This is the formation you want:
[image loading]


This is not what you want:
[image loading]

In the first screen capture, the stalkers are at the very lip of the ramp so that they are out of sight and can shoot the probe asap. In the 2nd one, they might have to move after you see the probe in order to start. bad! You might even consider having both stalkers closer to the inside corner of the ramp, still on the lip but hugging the wall where the probe will most likely try to mineral walk through.

Here comes the approach:
[image loading]

this game I didn't scout so I waste a few shots on the stalker before targeting the probe. As you'll see, this is fine even if he gets up 2 pylons below the ramp.

Kill the probe, and then kill the stalker. This shouldn't be a problem with any kind of reasonable correct micro:
[image loading]

After you kill the stalker for free, kill the zealot while retreating up your ramp. Your sentry should be done now. You want to kill the zealot before his pylons + WG is done to prevent an above-ramp warp-in or you're dead.

Once the zealot is dead, focus down the pylons 1 by 1. Only use your 1st forcefield when he is about to get vision up the ramp:
[image loading]

You should only get a 2nd sentry if you're being aggressed. Chain your 2nd ff with the first one:
[image loading]

Once the 2nd ff is down, you are in great shape! continue to warp in as many sentries as you need to keep chaining forcefields.

You'll bring down the 2nd pylon as your 2nd ff is in place, and then you've got it! It's really easy to forget your pylon on 32! Make sure you don't, or you might run out of FFs and lose immediately
[image loading]

GG


The potatoes
+ Show Spoiler +
This is most likely common knowledge for a lot of folks, but since I still hear people talking about losing to 4gate, I thought I'd share this little bit. I learned this from nAni at MLG. He did this build:

9 Pylon
12 Gateway
14 Gas
15 Pylon
17 Core
18 Zealot
21 Gas (2nd)
22 Stalker + wg (don't cb stalker; ~3 cb on WG should be fine. You just need to be able to get out a 2nd sentry with WG in time for the 2nd forcefield and that is all!)
25 Pylon (make sure you start this @100 mins!!
26 Stalker; CB it!!!
29 Twilight Council
30 Sentry
32 Gate
32 Gate
32 Pylon
** whatever you need to defend, then a robo and an obs **

If you aren't being agressed, you don't need to warp in anything until you have started your robo! cool stuff.

Anyway, try out this build and see how you like it. nani didn't really cut probes once he started producing units, and he expoed when I saw him do this against HuK after doing damage to HuK's earlier expansion, and then absolutely smoked the poor boy!

The reason this is most/more effective on maps with a 2ndary ramp is that the approach MUST go through a single point, so it's easier to focus down the probe. You can do this to some degree on other maps, as well, but you should NEVER lose to 4g on the maps specified in the intro doing this! gl!

Here is the replay from the screen shots for reference
http://sc2rep.com/replays/download?id=16867
more replays
http://drop.sc/82667
http://drop.sc/82666

if you go robo after 3 gates and twilight, you are pretty safe vs everything but wp rush. you should always check for it when it should come. i miss it this game but still win somehow O_O

do what i did but check for wp a bit sooner so you can cancel your robo if need be
alejP v clashmercyP


Happy Holidays!
aLeJ


get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-25 05:29:20
December 25 2011 05:27 GMT
#2
If he saves an extra chrono & builds 2nd stalker before 2/3/4th gate (or it is a small map) he can pressure hard with 1z 2st and force you to waste that early FF (or you risk losing your sentry) and it'll be difficult to get a 2nd sentry out (if i remember correctly perfect execution you can't afford to use the first FF until 5:45 so you have time to get a 2nd sentry out).

Also, if he makes you waste the first FF quickly and then the 2nd one with 1 gateway you won't be able to get a 3rd sentry out quick enough.

I do the same build except i build a 2nd gate and start the sentry before the tech building. Feels much safer to me.
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
December 25 2011 05:30 GMT
#3
On December 25 2011 14:27 Complete wrote:
If he saves an extra chrono & builds 2nd stalker before 2/3/4th gate (or it is a small map) he can pressure hard with 1z 2st and force you to waste that early FF (or you risk losing your sentry) and it'll be difficult to get a 2nd sentry out (if i remember correctly perfect execution you can't afford to use the first FF until 5:45 so you have time to get a 2nd sentry out).

Also, if he makes you waste the first FF quickly and then the 2nd one with 1 gateway you won't be able to get a 3rd sentry out quick enough.

I do the same build except i build a 2nd gate and start the sentry before the tech building. Feels much safer to me.

replay of this? seems like his 2nd stalker would be much too late to be of any help here.
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
name_lock
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada30 Posts
December 25 2011 16:45 GMT
#4
What if the zealot goes straight up your ramp instead of getting kited at the bottom?
JonnyLaw
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3482 Posts
December 25 2011 17:19 GMT
#5
On December 26 2011 01:45 name_lock wrote:
What if the zealot goes straight up your ramp instead of getting kited at the bottom?



The accompanying stalker will die even faster. Just make certain the zealot dies before the pylons finish.
Cycle
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States300 Posts
December 25 2011 17:23 GMT
#6
Excellent guide!

Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?

It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.
| chKCycle.551 | NA | Master League Random | Checkmate Gaming |
K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
December 25 2011 17:41 GMT
#7
Oh wow, I noticed so people doing this too. Nice writeup, great guide! Thanks.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
December 25 2011 17:54 GMT
#8
I can't believe I've never done this before, it's so simple yet good
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
LEEKsc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Sweden380 Posts
December 25 2011 18:19 GMT
#9
sick guide as always alej :>

On December 26 2011 02:23 Cycle wrote:
Excellent guide!

Also, this might be a stupid addition, but can you add something about scouting your base for pylons?

It's kinda sad but I play at high diamond and have won many games by getting a pylon down in their base and 4 gating, and in my opinion that should never really happen.


just take a probe around the time youve scouted the area of your natural etc and positioned units on 2nd ramp (prolly around 5:10-5:20) and a-move it around possible locations of inbase pylons
RIP our beloved Amulet, we will never forget. // nAni #1 prOb rush
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
December 25 2011 18:30 GMT
#10
Glad to see PvP nowadays has evolved so much. I enjoy PvP on ladder more now cuz 4 gates defensive has much more advantage than ever.
hox
Profile Joined February 2010
United States59 Posts
December 25 2011 18:33 GMT
#11
Great guide! I'll definitely be using this. Tangential question - what do you usually do after you stop the 4gate? Go back to your normal build? Apply pressure in case he puts down an expansion immediately after?
The spice must flow.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
December 25 2011 19:10 GMT
#12
Nice, this is slightly different from the way I defend, but I like it a lot with the early zealot, except for the key fact that you could be in some trouble if your 2nd gas gets stolen. I guess you could just 4gate yourself, but if your opponent defends they're in great shape. That's why I usually go 2nd gas first instead of getting the zealot, but of course getting the zealot has its advantages.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Sveet
Profile Joined November 2010
United States86 Posts
December 25 2011 19:55 GMT
#13
Just block them from gas stealing and you don't have that issue. This build is very solid
TeCH_TT
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany63 Posts
December 25 2011 22:45 GMT
#14
nice guide thx but what tech would you prefer against 4 gate robo or twilight?
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 25 2011 22:54 GMT
#15
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD
I am Latedi.
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8477 Posts
December 25 2011 23:15 GMT
#16
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.
Moderator
.Enigma
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom116 Posts
December 25 2011 23:43 GMT
#17
So, bring 2 probes when 4 gating on Shakuras and Antiga. Got it! Thanks for the help.
Latedi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Sweden1027 Posts
December 25 2011 23:50 GMT
#18
On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.


That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me
I am Latedi.
CaptainHaz
Profile Joined December 2010
United States240 Posts
December 26 2011 00:06 GMT
#19
On December 26 2011 08:50 Latedi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 26 2011 08:15 NrGmonk wrote:
On December 26 2011 07:54 Latedi wrote:
Thanks so much <3 I was trying to tell monk that you could defend a 4gate like this but he just wouldn't listen xD

This is nothing like what you were trying to convince me of. You were trying to say that 3 gate blind robo is perfectly safe on all maps. The technique represented in this post is only applicable on maps with ramps or chokes. More importantly, you were arguing this before the patch that nerfed 4 gate. In a previous patch, this technique wouldn't work either because of ramp vision.


That depends a lot on your exact build, micro etc imo. Opinions and preferences basically. I'm glad Alej could explain it so well for me

I remember the thread you were referring to.

Of course opinions and preferences can differ, but at the same time can be wrong. Yes, I have to say that blind 3 gate robo is just silly to assume that it's safe against a 4 gate.
All of us warned you of the big white face.
DarkLegend
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom21 Posts
December 26 2011 00:21 GMT
#20
what do you do if they had a second probe behind and put a pylon out of range and just continued to mass up a large zealot stalker army on the low ground?
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
16:00
#121
RotterdaM774
IndyStarCraft 63
Liquipedia
OSC
13:00
King of the Hill #255
EmpressLilyy60
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 783
TKL 66
IndyStarCraft 39
BRAT_OK 36
RushiSC 25
MindelVK 8
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1851
EffOrt 778
BeSt 760
Rush 724
Horang2 381
Hyuk 367
Soulkey 361
Larva 334
actioN 310
ggaemo 299
[ Show more ]
ZerO 210
hero 196
Zeus 91
Hyun 69
Mong 60
Sharp 53
Free 53
sSak 37
sorry 36
soO 35
Sexy 34
910 34
JYJ 32
scan(afreeca) 28
ToSsGirL 27
Hm[arnc] 26
Rock 23
IntoTheRainbow 16
Terrorterran 14
HiyA 10
Dota 2
Gorgc8190
qojqva1568
XaKoH 544
Counter-Strike
fl0m1366
kRYSTAL_79
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King99
Other Games
gofns14982
B2W.Neo842
hiko622
Beastyqt418
Hui .148
ArmadaUGS81
Grubby30
ZerO(Twitch)18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick32157
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 71
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV380
League of Legends
• Nemesis3386
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 37m
Replay Cast
7h 37m
RSL Revival
16h 37m
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
CranKy Ducklings
17h 37m
Afreeca Starleague
17h 37m
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
SC Evo League
19h 37m
ByuN vs Classic
Cure vs Solar
IPSL
23h 37m
Dragon vs Ret
RSL Revival
1d 16h
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 17h
IPSL
1d 23h
Bonyth vs Hawk
[ Show More ]
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CrankTV Team League
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Heroes Pulsing #3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.