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[G] FFE on Arid Plateau and Entombed Valley

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Barkspawn
Profile Joined June 2011
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 16:28:30
December 15 2011 05:39 GMT
#1
A few hours ago blizzard announced these two maps for the upcoming season, and the biggest complaint I've noticed is the inability to FFE on arid plateau. After playing around on these maps, I have found that FFE appears to be completely viable on arid plateau, so I've decided to share what I've found on both the maps.

Edit: added an alternative way to wall off on Arid Plateau
Arid Plateau:

+ Show Spoiler +
The basic wall-off looks like this:

[image loading]

The cannon covers all buildings, and the only way for lings to run into the main is to go around the nexus, and through the small area between the vespene geyser and the mineral patch. This area is easily blocked with probes, or a pylon, as seen here:

[image loading]

An additional building can be placed to reinforce your pylon and cannon from banelings:

[image loading]

What i find most promising about an FFE on this map shown below:

[image loading]

These three pylons form a complete wall off. Its certainly not an impenetrable wall off, but it can serve to buy time and protect cannons placed behind the pylons. This feature will help immensely for dealing with roach-ling allins.

Finally, one more building is enough to completely wall off the mineral line if this is deemed necessary:

[image loading]

Here's an alternative way to wall-off taken from the thread.

On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.





Entombed Valley:
+ Show Spoiler +
There are a few ways to go about walling off, but this is the way i found to be most effective.

[image loading]

The purpose of the second pylon is to both wall off, and give the power radius required for your second cannon. This cannon covers the rocks from zergling attacks, and also covers most of the ramp for additional defense. Note that like on Nazarim Crypt this cannon does not need to be built right away, or even at all if zerg chooses not to try to kill the rocks with lings. However, unlike on Nazarim Crypt it is hard to use a zealot to defend this kind of harass.

In case of an all in a gateway and a cannon can wall off your side entrance, and cannons can be positioned to defend both entrances:

[image loading]

Kznn
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil9072 Posts
December 15 2011 05:43 GMT
#2
very nice. Thank you
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
December 15 2011 05:51 GMT
#3
lol at "banlings." they are going to break your wall and ban your ass. =) i think your wall would be better if you do a forge, gate and cyber (or 2 gate) between ramp and nexus. that way you arent blocking yourself. its kind of like xelnaga caverns.
heha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia425 Posts
December 15 2011 05:53 GMT
#4
Sir/madam, you are a scholar and gentleman/lady Thanks for this!
Random for life! phoneheha
pure_protoss
Profile Joined April 2011
152 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 06:15:35
December 15 2011 06:10 GMT
#5
On ARID, I am pretty sure your canon doesnt cover your forge entirely...therefore, any roach pressure or early pool can easily break it and get in your main...not a good map for FFE...On the second map, your FFE seems good however, it will once again be vulnerable to early pool (as on TDA however). Also, the fact that they can push both the rocks or the main makes it dangerous...we will see in the future how it goes...But for the first map...it is definatly not viable...sorry
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
December 15 2011 06:16 GMT
#6
Yeah, you'd def need 2 cannons on arid plateau, roaches could bust your forge safely
Barkspawn
Profile Joined June 2011
United States8 Posts
December 15 2011 06:29 GMT
#7
On December 15 2011 15:10 pure_protoss wrote:
On ARID, I am pretty sure your canon doesnt cover your forge entirely...therefore, any roach pressure or early pool can easily break it and get in your main...not a good map for FFE...On the second map, your FFE seems good however, it will once again be vulnerable to early pool (as on TDA however). Also, the fact that they can push both the rocks or the main makes it dangerous...we will see in the future how it goes...But for the first map...it is definatly not viable...sorry



The cannon(on arid) does cover the forge from lings, but not from roaches. so a second would definitely be needed against roaches. When i say FFE is viable i compare it to metalopolis. As someone who always FFEs on metal, from what I've seen i expect roaches to be easier to deal with on this map than on metal, because on metal they can simply maneuver around your nexus to find a weak spot, whereas on Arid if one entrance is heavily defended they have to run around the big hole in front of your nat to get to the other entrance, and the ability to wall off your second entrance strengthens your defense and buys you time.

Of course, the map hasn't been out long enough to be tested thoroughly, so this is speculation. My purpose in writing this guide isn't to say an FFE will be easy, but rather to say it is much more viable than a lot of people think it is.

Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
December 15 2011 06:32 GMT
#8
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?
pure_protoss
Profile Joined April 2011
152 Posts
December 15 2011 07:02 GMT
#9
On December 15 2011 15:32 darkness wrote:
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?


I didnt see that but now that you are mentionning it...Gas mining would not be screwed but would be crippled severely...The second canon would definatly be a need...therefore, it might be a good idea to place your first canon on the left of the left geyser and then place a second one in the mineral line...
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 07:08:35
December 15 2011 07:08 GMT
#10
Your guide is about building placement, not actually forge fast-expanding...

You should also include weaknesses like those horridly exposed pylons.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10366 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 07:13:57
December 15 2011 07:11 GMT
#11
Seems like I should have read Blizzard's full post, hah. It's on PTR I'm guessing ^^

Great, thanks for this! I wonder if the blizz people take into account things like this when creating maps, or expect the players to be able to find an OK way to sim city

On December 15 2011 16:02 pure_protoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 15:32 darkness wrote:
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?


I didnt see that but now that you are mentionning it...Gas mining would not be screwed but would be crippled severely...The second canon would definatly be a need...therefore, it might be a good idea to place your first canon on the left of the left geyser and then place a second one in the mineral line...


All you need to do is put that third building there right below the gas, so that you can move the gateway down so there is a crack between the cannon and gate.

If you do that, you could move the forge down 1 matric as well; this way, if a baneling bust comes and hits any of those 3 buildings, the pylon behind it won't get splashed. However if the forge is 1 matric farther south, i don't think the cannon can reach the very corner of the forge, but if it's just 2-3 lings it shouldn't be a big deal.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
chadissilent
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada1187 Posts
December 15 2011 07:15 GMT
#12
Both of these placements will die to 7pool. It's one of those situations where you have to abandon your natural and hope to plop a cannon down in your main.
Duckvillelol
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia1253 Posts
December 15 2011 07:40 GMT
#13
I'm just going to downvote the first map, seems far too annoying for FFE, which I love doing. But great job figuring them out
Former SC2 commentator. youtube.com/duckvillelol
teh_longinator
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada725 Posts
December 15 2011 07:43 GMT
#14
Wait? These maps are ALREADY playable? I thought we had to wait for the new season to start.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
December 15 2011 07:43 GMT
#15
that's nice and pretty and everything, but it's not viable and no one in their right mind will FFE on that map
blabberrrrr
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
December 15 2011 07:49 GMT
#16
On December 15 2011 16:43 blabber wrote:
that's nice and pretty and everything, but it's not viable and no one in their right mind will FFE on that map


We see less viable ffe builds from people all the time, on dual sight/ metal/ bel'shir. This is hardly any worse than those.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
cywinr
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada173 Posts
December 15 2011 08:00 GMT
#17
You can also just sit in one spot and defend the entrances to 4 bases...
Warzilla
Profile Joined December 2010
Czech Republic311 Posts
December 15 2011 08:28 GMT
#18
Nice job man However those maps are looking typhon peaks like pretty much Does anyone know which maps will get removed ?
"AFTER LOST GAME - I usually run around in circles yelling "WHY OH GOD WHY" in my room, pointing towards the sky. After 5 to 10min ,i get tired and go back to playing"
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 09:26:47
December 15 2011 08:32 GMT
#19
wow, interesting. I assumed it was impossible, but this completely changes everything! Lots of surface area though. . .

EDIT: top of second page is better.
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
CygNus X-1
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada169 Posts
December 15 2011 08:35 GMT
#20
You must be gold league. close thread.

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