• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:32
CEST 11:32
KST 18:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles4[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?14FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
i aint gon lie to u bruh... BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 Preliminary Maps [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Summer Games Done Quick 2024!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 702 users

[G] FFE on Arid Plateau and Entombed Valley

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Barkspawn
Profile Joined June 2011
United States8 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 16:28:30
December 15 2011 05:39 GMT
#1
A few hours ago blizzard announced these two maps for the upcoming season, and the biggest complaint I've noticed is the inability to FFE on arid plateau. After playing around on these maps, I have found that FFE appears to be completely viable on arid plateau, so I've decided to share what I've found on both the maps.

Edit: added an alternative way to wall off on Arid Plateau
Arid Plateau:

+ Show Spoiler +
The basic wall-off looks like this:

[image loading]

The cannon covers all buildings, and the only way for lings to run into the main is to go around the nexus, and through the small area between the vespene geyser and the mineral patch. This area is easily blocked with probes, or a pylon, as seen here:

[image loading]

An additional building can be placed to reinforce your pylon and cannon from banelings:

[image loading]

What i find most promising about an FFE on this map shown below:

[image loading]

These three pylons form a complete wall off. Its certainly not an impenetrable wall off, but it can serve to buy time and protect cannons placed behind the pylons. This feature will help immensely for dealing with roach-ling allins.

Finally, one more building is enough to completely wall off the mineral line if this is deemed necessary:

[image loading]

Here's an alternative way to wall-off taken from the thread.

On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.





Entombed Valley:
+ Show Spoiler +
There are a few ways to go about walling off, but this is the way i found to be most effective.

[image loading]

The purpose of the second pylon is to both wall off, and give the power radius required for your second cannon. This cannon covers the rocks from zergling attacks, and also covers most of the ramp for additional defense. Note that like on Nazarim Crypt this cannon does not need to be built right away, or even at all if zerg chooses not to try to kill the rocks with lings. However, unlike on Nazarim Crypt it is hard to use a zealot to defend this kind of harass.

In case of an all in a gateway and a cannon can wall off your side entrance, and cannons can be positioned to defend both entrances:

[image loading]

Kznn
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil9072 Posts
December 15 2011 05:43 GMT
#2
very nice. Thank you
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
December 15 2011 05:51 GMT
#3
lol at "banlings." they are going to break your wall and ban your ass. =) i think your wall would be better if you do a forge, gate and cyber (or 2 gate) between ramp and nexus. that way you arent blocking yourself. its kind of like xelnaga caverns.
heha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia425 Posts
December 15 2011 05:53 GMT
#4
Sir/madam, you are a scholar and gentleman/lady Thanks for this!
Random for life! phoneheha
pure_protoss
Profile Joined April 2011
152 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 06:15:35
December 15 2011 06:10 GMT
#5
On ARID, I am pretty sure your canon doesnt cover your forge entirely...therefore, any roach pressure or early pool can easily break it and get in your main...not a good map for FFE...On the second map, your FFE seems good however, it will once again be vulnerable to early pool (as on TDA however). Also, the fact that they can push both the rocks or the main makes it dangerous...we will see in the future how it goes...But for the first map...it is definatly not viable...sorry
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
December 15 2011 06:16 GMT
#6
Yeah, you'd def need 2 cannons on arid plateau, roaches could bust your forge safely
Barkspawn
Profile Joined June 2011
United States8 Posts
December 15 2011 06:29 GMT
#7
On December 15 2011 15:10 pure_protoss wrote:
On ARID, I am pretty sure your canon doesnt cover your forge entirely...therefore, any roach pressure or early pool can easily break it and get in your main...not a good map for FFE...On the second map, your FFE seems good however, it will once again be vulnerable to early pool (as on TDA however). Also, the fact that they can push both the rocks or the main makes it dangerous...we will see in the future how it goes...But for the first map...it is definatly not viable...sorry



The cannon(on arid) does cover the forge from lings, but not from roaches. so a second would definitely be needed against roaches. When i say FFE is viable i compare it to metalopolis. As someone who always FFEs on metal, from what I've seen i expect roaches to be easier to deal with on this map than on metal, because on metal they can simply maneuver around your nexus to find a weak spot, whereas on Arid if one entrance is heavily defended they have to run around the big hole in front of your nat to get to the other entrance, and the ability to wall off your second entrance strengthens your defense and buys you time.

Of course, the map hasn't been out long enough to be tested thoroughly, so this is speculation. My purpose in writing this guide isn't to say an FFE will be easy, but rather to say it is much more viable than a lot of people think it is.

Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
December 15 2011 06:32 GMT
#8
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?
pure_protoss
Profile Joined April 2011
152 Posts
December 15 2011 07:02 GMT
#9
On December 15 2011 15:32 darkness wrote:
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?


I didnt see that but now that you are mentionning it...Gas mining would not be screwed but would be crippled severely...The second canon would definatly be a need...therefore, it might be a good idea to place your first canon on the left of the left geyser and then place a second one in the mineral line...
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 07:08:35
December 15 2011 07:08 GMT
#10
Your guide is about building placement, not actually forge fast-expanding...

You should also include weaknesses like those horridly exposed pylons.
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10325 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 07:13:57
December 15 2011 07:11 GMT
#11
Seems like I should have read Blizzard's full post, hah. It's on PTR I'm guessing ^^

Great, thanks for this! I wonder if the blizz people take into account things like this when creating maps, or expect the players to be able to find an OK way to sim city

On December 15 2011 16:02 pure_protoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 15:32 darkness wrote:
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?


I didnt see that but now that you are mentionning it...Gas mining would not be screwed but would be crippled severely...The second canon would definatly be a need...therefore, it might be a good idea to place your first canon on the left of the left geyser and then place a second one in the mineral line...


All you need to do is put that third building there right below the gas, so that you can move the gateway down so there is a crack between the cannon and gate.

If you do that, you could move the forge down 1 matric as well; this way, if a baneling bust comes and hits any of those 3 buildings, the pylon behind it won't get splashed. However if the forge is 1 matric farther south, i don't think the cannon can reach the very corner of the forge, but if it's just 2-3 lings it shouldn't be a big deal.
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
chadissilent
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada1187 Posts
December 15 2011 07:15 GMT
#12
Both of these placements will die to 7pool. It's one of those situations where you have to abandon your natural and hope to plop a cannon down in your main.
Duckvillelol
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia1240 Posts
December 15 2011 07:40 GMT
#13
I'm just going to downvote the first map, seems far too annoying for FFE, which I love doing. But great job figuring them out
Former SC2 commentator. youtube.com/duckvillelol
teh_longinator
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada725 Posts
December 15 2011 07:43 GMT
#14
Wait? These maps are ALREADY playable? I thought we had to wait for the new season to start.
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
December 15 2011 07:43 GMT
#15
that's nice and pretty and everything, but it's not viable and no one in their right mind will FFE on that map
blabberrrrr
Verator
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
December 15 2011 07:49 GMT
#16
On December 15 2011 16:43 blabber wrote:
that's nice and pretty and everything, but it's not viable and no one in their right mind will FFE on that map


We see less viable ffe builds from people all the time, on dual sight/ metal/ bel'shir. This is hardly any worse than those.
So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence. -- Bertrand Russell
cywinr
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada173 Posts
December 15 2011 08:00 GMT
#17
You can also just sit in one spot and defend the entrances to 4 bases...
Warzilla
Profile Joined December 2010
Czech Republic311 Posts
December 15 2011 08:28 GMT
#18
Nice job man However those maps are looking typhon peaks like pretty much Does anyone know which maps will get removed ?
"AFTER LOST GAME - I usually run around in circles yelling "WHY OH GOD WHY" in my room, pointing towards the sky. After 5 to 10min ,i get tired and go back to playing"
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 09:26:47
December 15 2011 08:32 GMT
#19
wow, interesting. I assumed it was impossible, but this completely changes everything! Lots of surface area though. . .

EDIT: top of second page is better.
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
CygNus X-1
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada169 Posts
December 15 2011 08:35 GMT
#20
You must be gold league. close thread.

User was warned for this post
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation: We have assumed control.
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 267
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6336
actioN 1427
GuemChi 1125
Horang2 462
Hyuk 419
EffOrt 326
Soma 230
ToSsGirL 194
PianO 138
Rush 105
[ Show more ]
Larva 99
Pusan 65
sSak 60
JulyZerg 55
yabsab 51
Aegong 45
Barracks 38
Sharp 38
Mind 37
Hyun 25
Sacsri 24
Free 23
Movie 18
Yoon 15
IntoTheRainbow 11
Bale 9
HiyA 5
Dota 2
Gorgc3290
XcaliburYe748
League of Legends
JimRising 463
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss783
Stewie2K745
kennyS429
allub132
Other Games
gofns19765
tarik_tv13976
ceh9557
shahzam398
Liquid`RaSZi396
Pyrionflax161
crisheroes120
Mew2King86
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick25321
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2226
Other Games
• WagamamaTV98
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
29m
WardiTV European League
6h 29m
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
14h 29m
The PondCast
1d
WardiTV European League
1d 2h
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
[ Show More ]
FEL
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
FEL
4 days
CSO Cup
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.