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[G] FFE on Arid Plateau and Entombed Valley - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Origine
Profile Joined January 2010
France167 Posts
December 15 2011 08:49 GMT
#21
So.. 3 gaz on 2 bases duh?
https://twitter.com/thomAufresne
Tekakan
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden78 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 09:27:41
December 15 2011 09:00 GMT
#22
I like the initiativ to the thread and you make some valid points about FFE on them but you're missing out on what may be the best thing to do on Arid Plateau and Metalopolis if your going FFE. That is to Cannon on the highground to completly deny any sort of sniping of the Forge after you've scouted the Roach bust coming. This allows you to cannon up a lot more on your weaker side and has proven to be very effective for me. Obviously the Zerg can eventually get an Overlord in place to get high ground vision but the time it takes for them to set that up usually buys me enough time to get my Void Ray out. And I feel like VR openings are by far the best option on maps where your natural is very exposed to all ins.
Wookyman
Profile Joined December 2011
Denmark4 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 09:20:06
December 15 2011 09:19 GMT
#23
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.
Let me hear you go RAWR!
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
December 15 2011 09:31 GMT
#24
Nice. This is basically the same as respectively xelnaga/shattered and antiga, so I'm sure it can be done quite easily with some practice.
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
matiK23
Profile Joined May 2011
United States963 Posts
December 15 2011 09:36 GMT
#25
On December 15 2011 17:35 CygNus X-1 wrote:
You must be gold league. close thread.


Wow you are SOOOO constructive. Go back to reddit please.
Without a paddle up shit creek.
Arcanefrost
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium1257 Posts
December 15 2011 09:38 GMT
#26
On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.


That one's better imo.

But I'm not quite sure how you want to cannon to defend the other side on arid near the second natural gas, gogo tl math boys!
Valor is a poor substitute for numbers.
chestnutcc
Profile Joined July 2011
India429 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 11:05:09
December 15 2011 10:31 GMT
#27
Gas mining wont be affected by the cannon placement in the OP. Theres a thread about this somewhere, basically, the probes wrap around the cannon and the difference is infinitesimal.

The wall in on entombed valley looks similar to that used in antiga shipyard.

On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.


This is a more economical wall in but looks v susceptible to early run bys. The image below depicts a a complete block. The cannon in the picture above cannot hit roaches targeting the wall, the one below misses out only on the forge. The wall seems akin to that on metal and xel naga caverns, you will need at least two cannons to be perfectly safe, on the other hand, it is v ff friendly.

[image loading]


Sim City image

althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
December 15 2011 13:21 GMT
#28
Much prefer the second one for Arid Plateau. For Entombed valley wouldn't something like this be better?

[image loading]

You can either put the pylon in the wall and the canon behind it or you can use the pylon or canon to leave a 1x1 space in the wall (pylon can power everything either behind (as in 1 hex to the left in my picture) or in front of the canon.
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
WolfBro
Profile Joined December 2011
United States59 Posts
December 15 2011 13:27 GMT
#29
I was just playing around with this same question. Arid Plateau looks a bit ugly, but its nice to see possibilities.
NaldoR
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore2198 Posts
December 15 2011 13:28 GMT
#30
On December 15 2011 19:31 chestnutcc wrote:
Gas mining wont be affected by the cannon placement in the OP. Theres a thread about this somewhere, basically, the probes wrap around the cannon and the difference is infinitesimal.

The wall in on entombed valley looks similar to that used in antiga shipyard.

Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.


This is a more economical wall in but looks v susceptible to early run bys. The image below depicts a a complete block. The cannon in the picture above cannot hit roaches targeting the wall, the one below misses out only on the forge. The wall seems akin to that on metal and xel naga caverns, you will need at least two cannons to be perfectly safe, on the other hand, it is v ff friendly.

[image loading]


Sim City image


does cannon and pylon form a 2nd wall?
Wookyman
Profile Joined December 2011
Denmark4 Posts
December 15 2011 13:29 GMT
#31
The thing is that wall-offs with pylons in front makes it very vurnerable against baneling busts you only need 5 banelings to kill a pylon but 10 to 12 to kill the other buildings. But that might still work with a lot of sentries.
Let me hear you go RAWR!
althaz
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia1001 Posts
December 15 2011 13:33 GMT
#32
What time do baneling busts come down though (after normal gas-pool opening)?
The first rule we don't talk about race conditions. of race conditions is
chestnutcc
Profile Joined July 2011
India429 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 13:57:49
December 15 2011 13:49 GMT
#33
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 15 2011 22:28 Hopelessnoob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 19:31 chestnutcc wrote:
Gas mining wont be affected by the cannon placement in the OP. Theres a thread about this somewhere, basically, the probes wrap around the cannon and the difference is infinitesimal.

The wall in on entombed valley looks similar to that used in antiga shipyard.

On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.


This is a more economical wall in but looks v susceptible to early run bys. The image below depicts a a complete block. The cannon in the picture above cannot hit roaches targeting the wall, the one below misses out only on the forge. The wall seems akin to that on metal and xel naga caverns, you will need at least two cannons to be perfectly safe, on the other hand, it is v ff friendly.

[image loading]


Sim City image


does cannon and pylon form a 2nd wall?


The traditional zealot block is in between the pylon and the cannon. If necessary a probe can block the space between the mineral patch and the geyser. Lings blocked here are in range of the cannon. They can still chew at the far pylon, but a second cannon can hug the nexus within range of the first and cover it.

The map is ff friendly and the choke to the side of the expo can be covered with a single ff I think. The frontal wall is ideally covered by a cannon on the high ground. Should be okay against baneling busts.
willyallthewei
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States265 Posts
December 15 2011 13:55 GMT
#34
Looks like theres a better chance of the wall offs on Arid being viable if you abandon the far geyser completely and just block with a 3x3 between the geyeser and the nexus.
"never give up, never surrender"
RynoKenny
Profile Joined April 2010
United States6 Posts
December 15 2011 17:31 GMT
#35
All of these developing walls seem interesting and I'm sure that we'll find ones that work to keep up in PvZ to get to mid-game. But what about 6pools, none of these walls can survive an even timely scouted 6pool. Am I the only one nervous that if FFE does become viable on these new maps that 6poolers will just assume we are expanding and run right by?
Balgrog
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1221 Posts
December 15 2011 18:11 GMT
#36
I think that blizzard made these maps to "force us" into 1 base play/1 gate expand. The naturals are not to bad to take relatively fast, but FFE on these maps look to way more risky and WAY more of a hassle then they are worth, and good roach timing or what not on either of these 2 new maps will absolutely demolish you, hell even a strong speedling timing will ruin you for these. I am excited for the community to come together and hopefully find a better way of expanding than stargate/1gate/ffe.
The only way to attack structure is with chaos.
Louis8k8
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-15 18:35:12
December 15 2011 18:33 GMT
#37
On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.

Imo, those building placements are as good as it gets. The mineral line is still exposed to banelings from the right opening and also roaches. But that's issues with FFE on any map and can be compensated with additional cannons and pylons.

Thanks for the screenshot.

If I were to play this map (I'm going to veto so that won't happen anyways). I'd put 2 cannons as a standard. The first one between Nex and mineral line and second tight against the Cyber and Gateway. And the timing of the second one depends on gas timing of the Zerg.
clownzim
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Brazil267 Posts
December 15 2011 18:49 GMT
#38
good effort but your sincity is just awful zergs probably run by your wall a lot in your games.....
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 15 2011 19:33 GMT
#39
On December 16 2011 03:33 Louis8k8 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:
Is it just me or is this one more viable?
[image loading]
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.

Imo, those building placements are as good as it gets. The mineral line is still exposed to banelings from the right opening and also roaches. But that's issues with FFE on any map and can be compensated with additional cannons and pylons.

Thanks for the screenshot.

If I were to play this map (I'm going to veto so that won't happen anyways). I'd put 2 cannons as a standard. The first one between Nex and mineral line and second tight against the Cyber and Gateway. And the timing of the second one depends on gas timing of the Zerg.


There are going to be a lot of run bys with the second enterance. The placement of the cyber core will be clutch to hold the lings in cannon range.

If I attempt this, I will most likely do some "cannon harrass" to keep the zerg from being agressive to early. I do not want those lings banging against my front door while I am trying to get up my second pylon and cyber core.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
MiKTeX
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States234 Posts
December 15 2011 19:40 GMT
#40
make sure to morph archons outside of the base when using the wallin on the op (or kill the pylon in the back later on in the game ^^)

just saying
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