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A few hours ago blizzard announced these two maps for the upcoming season, and the biggest complaint I've noticed is the inability to FFE on arid plateau. After playing around on these maps, I have found that FFE appears to be completely viable on arid plateau, so I've decided to share what I've found on both the maps.
Edit: added an alternative way to wall off on Arid Plateau
Arid Plateau:
+ Show Spoiler +The basic wall-off looks like this: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UUwWE.png) The cannon covers all buildings, and the only way for lings to run into the main is to go around the nexus, and through the small area between the vespene geyser and the mineral patch. This area is easily blocked with probes, or a pylon, as seen here: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rpp4g.png) An additional building can be placed to reinforce your pylon and cannon from banelings: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dvx7Z.png) What i find most promising about an FFE on this map shown below: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J7OZ1.png) These three pylons form a complete wall off. Its certainly not an impenetrable wall off, but it can serve to buy time and protect cannons placed behind the pylons. This feature will help immensely for dealing with roach-ling allins. Finally, one more building is enough to completely wall off the mineral line if this is deemed necessary: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ziv5s.png) Here's an alternative way to wall-off taken from the thread. On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/a9Fgw.jpg) The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.
Entombed Valley:
+ Show Spoiler +There are a few ways to go about walling off, but this is the way i found to be most effective. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dWviS.png) The purpose of the second pylon is to both wall off, and give the power radius required for your second cannon. This cannon covers the rocks from zergling attacks, and also covers most of the ramp for additional defense. Note that like on Nazarim Crypt this cannon does not need to be built right away, or even at all if zerg chooses not to try to kill the rocks with lings. However, unlike on Nazarim Crypt it is hard to use a zealot to defend this kind of harass. In case of an all in a gateway and a cannon can wall off your side entrance, and cannons can be positioned to defend both entrances: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ljI3C.png)
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very nice. Thank you 
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lol at "banlings." they are going to break your wall and ban your ass. =) i think your wall would be better if you do a forge, gate and cyber (or 2 gate) between ramp and nexus. that way you arent blocking yourself. its kind of like xelnaga caverns.
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Sir/madam, you are a scholar and gentleman/lady Thanks for this!
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On ARID, I am pretty sure your canon doesnt cover your forge entirely...therefore, any roach pressure or early pool can easily break it and get in your main...not a good map for FFE...On the second map, your FFE seems good however, it will once again be vulnerable to early pool (as on TDA however). Also, the fact that they can push both the rocks or the main makes it dangerous...we will see in the future how it goes...But for the first map...it is definatly not viable...sorry
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Yeah, you'd def need 2 cannons on arid plateau, roaches could bust your forge safely
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On December 15 2011 15:10 pure_protoss wrote:
On ARID, I am pretty sure your canon doesnt cover your forge entirely...therefore, any roach pressure or early pool can easily break it and get in your main...not a good map for FFE...On the second map, your FFE seems good however, it will once again be vulnerable to early pool (as on TDA however). Also, the fact that they can push both the rocks or the main makes it dangerous...we will see in the future how it goes...But for the first map...it is definatly not viable...sorry
The cannon(on arid) does cover the forge from lings, but not from roaches. so a second would definitely be needed against roaches. When i say FFE is viable i compare it to metalopolis. As someone who always FFEs on metal, from what I've seen i expect roaches to be easier to deal with on this map than on metal, because on metal they can simply maneuver around your nexus to find a weak spot, whereas on Arid if one entrance is heavily defended they have to run around the big hole in front of your nat to get to the other entrance, and the ability to wall off your second entrance strengthens your defense and buys you time.
Of course, the map hasn't been out long enough to be tested thoroughly, so this is speculation. My purpose in writing this guide isn't to say an FFE will be easy, but rather to say it is much more viable than a lot of people think it is.
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I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?
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On December 15 2011 15:32 darkness wrote:
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions?
I didnt see that but now that you are mentionning it...Gas mining would not be screwed but would be crippled severely...The second canon would definatly be a need...therefore, it might be a good idea to place your first canon on the left of the left geyser and then place a second one in the mineral line...
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Your guide is about building placement, not actually forge fast-expanding...
You should also include weaknesses like those horridly exposed pylons.
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Seems like I should have read Blizzard's full post, hah. It's on PTR I'm guessing ^^
Great, thanks for this! I wonder if the blizz people take into account things like this when creating maps, or expect the players to be able to find an OK way to sim city
On December 15 2011 16:02 pure_protoss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 15:32 darkness wrote:
I don't like the cannon on Arid Plateau. Gas mining seems to be screwed. Any suggestions? I didnt see that but now that you are mentionning it...Gas mining would not be screwed but would be crippled severely...The second canon would definatly be a need...therefore, it might be a good idea to place your first canon on the left of the left geyser and then place a second one in the mineral line...
All you need to do is put that third building there right below the gas, so that you can move the gateway down so there is a crack between the cannon and gate.
If you do that, you could move the forge down 1 matric as well; this way, if a baneling bust comes and hits any of those 3 buildings, the pylon behind it won't get splashed. However if the forge is 1 matric farther south, i don't think the cannon can reach the very corner of the forge, but if it's just 2-3 lings it shouldn't be a big deal.
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Both of these placements will die to 7pool. It's one of those situations where you have to abandon your natural and hope to plop a cannon down in your main.
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I'm just going to downvote the first map, seems far too annoying for FFE, which I love doing. But great job figuring them out
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Wait? These maps are ALREADY playable? I thought we had to wait for the new season to start.
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that's nice and pretty and everything, but it's not viable and no one in their right mind will FFE on that map
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On December 15 2011 16:43 blabber wrote:
that's nice and pretty and everything, but it's not viable and no one in their right mind will FFE on that map
We see less viable ffe builds from people all the time, on dual sight/ metal/ bel'shir. This is hardly any worse than those.
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You can also just sit in one spot and defend the entrances to 4 bases...
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Nice job man However those maps are looking typhon peaks like pretty much  Does anyone know which maps will get removed ?
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wow, interesting. I assumed it was impossible, but this completely changes everything! Lots of surface area though. . .
EDIT: top of second page is better.
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You must be gold league. close thread.
User was warned for this post
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So.. 3 gaz on 2 bases duh?
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I like the initiativ to the thread and you make some valid points about FFE on them but you're missing out on what may be the best thing to do on Arid Plateau and Metalopolis if your going FFE. That is to Cannon on the highground to completly deny any sort of sniping of the Forge after you've scouted the Roach bust coming. This allows you to cannon up a lot more on your weaker side and has proven to be very effective for me. Obviously the Zerg can eventually get an Overlord in place to get high ground vision but the time it takes for them to set that up usually buys me enough time to get my Void Ray out. And I feel like VR openings are by far the best option on maps where your natural is very exposed to all ins.
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Is it just me or is this one more viable?
The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings.
Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches.
You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area.
These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.
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Nice. This is basically the same as respectively xelnaga/shattered and antiga, so I'm sure it can be done quite easily with some practice.
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On December 15 2011 17:35 CygNus X-1 wrote:
You must be gold league. close thread.
Wow you are SOOOO constructive. Go back to reddit please.
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On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.
That one's better imo.
But I'm not quite sure how you want to cannon to defend the other side on arid near the second natural gas, gogo tl math boys!
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Gas mining wont be affected by the cannon placement in the OP. Theres a thread about this somewhere, basically, the probes wrap around the cannon and the difference is infinitesimal.
The wall in on entombed valley looks similar to that used in antiga shipyard.
On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.
This is a more economical wall in but looks v susceptible to early run bys. The image below depicts a a complete block. The cannon in the picture above cannot hit roaches targeting the wall, the one below misses out only on the forge. The wall seems akin to that on metal and xel naga caverns, you will need at least two cannons to be perfectly safe, on the other hand, it is v ff friendly.
Sim City image
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Much prefer the second one for Arid Plateau. For Entombed valley wouldn't something like this be better?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/wyYJE.jpg)
You can either put the pylon in the wall and the canon behind it or you can use the pylon or canon to leave a 1x1 space in the wall (pylon can power everything either behind (as in 1 hex to the left in my picture) or in front of the canon.
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I was just playing around with this same question. Arid Plateau looks a bit ugly, but its nice to see possibilities.
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On December 15 2011 19:31 chestnutcc wrote:Gas mining wont be affected by the cannon placement in the OP. Theres a thread about this somewhere, basically, the probes wrap around the cannon and the difference is infinitesimal. The wall in on entombed valley looks similar to that used in antiga shipyard. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice. This is a more economical wall in but looks v susceptible to early run bys. The image below depicts a a complete block. The cannon in the picture above cannot hit roaches targeting the wall, the one below misses out only on the forge. The wall seems akin to that on metal and xel naga caverns, you will need at least two cannons to be perfectly safe, on the other hand, it is v ff friendly. Sim City image
does cannon and pylon form a 2nd wall?
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The thing is that wall-offs with pylons in front makes it very vurnerable against baneling busts you only need 5 banelings to kill a pylon but 10 to 12 to kill the other buildings. But that might still work with a lot of sentries.
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What time do baneling busts come down though (after normal gas-pool opening)?
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 15 2011 22:28 Hopelessnoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 19:31 chestnutcc wrote:Gas mining wont be affected by the cannon placement in the OP. Theres a thread about this somewhere, basically, the probes wrap around the cannon and the difference is infinitesimal. The wall in on entombed valley looks similar to that used in antiga shipyard. On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice. This is a more economical wall in but looks v susceptible to early run bys. The image below depicts a a complete block. The cannon in the picture above cannot hit roaches targeting the wall, the one below misses out only on the forge. The wall seems akin to that on metal and xel naga caverns, you will need at least two cannons to be perfectly safe, on the other hand, it is v ff friendly. Sim City image does cannon and pylon form a 2nd wall?
The traditional zealot block is in between the pylon and the cannon. If necessary a probe can block the space between the mineral patch and the geyser. Lings blocked here are in range of the cannon. They can still chew at the far pylon, but a second cannon can hug the nexus within range of the first and cover it.
The map is ff friendly and the choke to the side of the expo can be covered with a single ff I think. The frontal wall is ideally covered by a cannon on the high ground. Should be okay against baneling busts.
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Looks like theres a better chance of the wall offs on Arid being viable if you abandon the far geyser completely and just block with a 3x3 between the geyeser and the nexus.
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All of these developing walls seem interesting and I'm sure that we'll find ones that work to keep up in PvZ to get to mid-game. But what about 6pools, none of these walls can survive an even timely scouted 6pool. Am I the only one nervous that if FFE does become viable on these new maps that 6poolers will just assume we are expanding and run right by?
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I think that blizzard made these maps to "force us" into 1 base play/1 gate expand. The naturals are not to bad to take relatively fast, but FFE on these maps look to way more risky and WAY more of a hassle then they are worth, and good roach timing or what not on either of these 2 new maps will absolutely demolish you, hell even a strong speedling timing will ruin you for these. I am excited for the community to come together and hopefully find a better way of expanding than stargate/1gate/ffe.
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On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice.
Imo, those building placements are as good as it gets. The mineral line is still exposed to banelings from the right opening and also roaches. But that's issues with FFE on any map and can be compensated with additional cannons and pylons.
Thanks for the screenshot.
If I were to play this map (I'm going to veto so that won't happen anyways). I'd put 2 cannons as a standard. The first one between Nex and mineral line and second tight against the Cyber and Gateway. And the timing of the second one depends on gas timing of the Zerg.
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good effort but your sincity is just awful zergs probably run by your wall a lot in your games.....
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On December 16 2011 03:33 Louis8k8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 18:19 Wookyman wrote:Is it just me or is this one more viable? The cannon completely defends both nexus and forge from lings. Like Tekakan says you can still place a cannon on the ledge to defend you from roaches. You almost can't see it but there's a pylon in the top of the picture obstructing ling runby's avoiding the cannon completely whilst making good room for a second cannon in that area. These placements are not well thought through I only tried twice. Imo, those building placements are as good as it gets. The mineral line is still exposed to banelings from the right opening and also roaches. But that's issues with FFE on any map and can be compensated with additional cannons and pylons. Thanks for the screenshot. If I were to play this map (I'm going to veto so that won't happen anyways). I'd put 2 cannons as a standard. The first one between Nex and mineral line and second tight against the Cyber and Gateway. And the timing of the second one depends on gas timing of the Zerg.
There are going to be a lot of run bys with the second enterance. The placement of the cyber core will be clutch to hold the lings in cannon range.
If I attempt this, I will most likely do some "cannon harrass" to keep the zerg from being agressive to early. I do not want those lings banging against my front door while I am trying to get up my second pylon and cyber core.
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make sure to morph archons outside of the base when using the wallin on the op (or kill the pylon in the back later on in the game ^^)
just saying 
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After playing arround a bit on Arid I just don't think FFE is worth it. There are many ways to pull off a runby for the zerg. To be safe against them all I just felt like I needed to invest so many resources in to Pylons I didn't need that early on I just fell behind since my tech was delayed. I think 1 gate expand or maybe 3 gate expand is much safer and makes more sense. You'll still be vulnerable to all ins witht hem but atleast you have some units, mainly Sentries, to cover all angles. Early Cannons and Pylons might be good against any Z all in but they're pretty much useless if they don't all in. My conclusion after nearly 10 games is that I fall behind so much in tech with a later Gateway, Cyber Core and first Gases that I can't do any normal FFE opening. I'm not writing it off entirely. There might be someone that comes up with a viable way to FFE on this map but as far as I'm concerend I'm not gonna spend any more time testing it out.
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Both maps are terrible for FFE no matter how hard you try to wall off. Even if you do some decent wallin like in Entombled Valley, an attack from 2 directions will just kill you.
Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway.
Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance
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On December 20 2011 23:03 synd wrote:
Both maps are terrible for FFE no matter how hard you try to wall off. Even if you do some decent wallin like in Entombled Valley, an attack from 2 directions will just kill you.
Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway.
Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance
I would agree about the map part but you could forgive yourself the balance part man... Its actualy gonna shake up with protoss gameplay on these maps if they ever get played in tournaments which is going to be interesting to say the least
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On December 20 2011 23:03 synd wrote:
Both maps are terrible for FFE no matter how hard you try to wall off. Even if you do some decent wallin like in Entombled Valley, an attack from 2 directions will just kill you.
Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway.
Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance
You should be able to scout mutas in time. If he takes a very late third or none at all you kind of know it's either Muta or Infestor form two base. Either way you can just do the standard 4 Gate +1 build and transition in to Twilight for Blink then add on a Robo and Templars Archives once your safe from any sort of all in. BTW I really can't see how it would be much easier to deal with some sort of "cheesy mutalisk play" on maps like Tal'Darim or Antiga Shipyard. Infact judging by your statement I would probably say that it's even worse on Antiga where the distances between the wall, natural and main should be more spread out then on Entombled Valley.
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I thought this was the overall safest way to FFE on Entombed, at least against all-ins and crazy whatnot.
![[image loading]](http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/unlucky_17/Starcraft/forgewall.png)
- Single cannon covers the entire space of your wall
- Most vulnerable building is furthest from the attack point
- Easy to plop down 2 more Cannons in great position if you scout an all-in or are going for some crazy tech play
- Can still move between bases with 3 cannons
- Archons can fit through the pylon hole once you open your wall if you morph them in your main.
![[image loading]](http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/unlucky_17/Starcraft/forgewall2.png)
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On December 21 2011 08:11 SidewinderSC2 wrote:I thought this was the overall safest way to FFE on Entombed, at least against all-ins and crazy whatnot. - Single cannon covers the entire space of your wall - Most vulnerable building is furthest from the attack point - Easy to plop down 2 more Cannons in great position if you scout an all-in or are going for some crazy tech play - Can still move between bases with 3 cannons - Archons can fit through the pylon hole once you open your wall if you morph them in your main.
Guess this wall is the first that will come in mind to everyone when trying walloffs on this map. However its extremely fragile. Snipe pylon and have a nice blast in your main mineral line.. Guess this map is gonna be the trickiest
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Or you can veto the horrible maps such as these and play the good ones. These are not optimal maps for forge expo regardless of how fancy your wall is. And if you don't forge expo against a zerg it's nearly GG if you want to pay a macro game.
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I think the wall off that SideWinderSC2 posted (the first one) for Entombed Valley is the most viable. It doesn't require as many minerals or buildings.
(Which) The only complaint that I have for your wall-offs is that you seem to have to invest too much into buildings. I feel like by the time you get every single building up, and after dumping all your minerals into it, lings could already be in your base or a roach/ling all in would be there before the wall is even complete.
I'm not no Grandmaster but typically the point of a FFE is to get your Nexus up as quickly and safely as possible. Making a wall that takes so many buildings is just minerals that could be spent in maybe just doing a well timed out push.
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I disagree with SideWinder and pulp. I think walling off the ramp is much better. With that wall off there is a risk that any Roach bust will get a better concave then if you wall off the ramp and use the high ground to your advantage.
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On December 21 2011 18:26 Tekakan wrote:
I disagree with SideWinder and pulp. I think walling off the ramp is much better. With that wall off there is a risk that any Roach bust will get a better concave then if you wall off the ramp and use the high ground to your advantage.
yeah, I think walling of the ramp is the better choice. just get your second pylon near the rocks, should give you enough time to build some canons and/or create a second small wall-off to stop any roach/ling all-ins.
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On December 21 2011 11:12 pulpSC wrote:
(Which) The only complaint that I have for your wall-offs is that you seem to have to invest too much into buildings. I feel like by the time you get every single building up, and after dumping all your minerals into it, lings could already be in your base or a roach/ling all in would be there before the wall is even complete.
I
errr that's the normal amount of buildings that you use to wall off...? maybe plus or minus the extra pylon, but you usually use those three buildings and build a cannon behind. Unless you are trying to say something else..?
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You can FFE on ANY map. ANY. It doesn't mean it's good. The fact you need so many cannons to cover your natural already makes it questionable, and you'd probably need way more to cover roaches. I don't think you'll get away with FFE'ing on these maps unless you regress into the old meta game of blind stargate to be 100% roach-proof.
On December 21 2011 02:31 Tekakan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2011 23:03 synd wrote:
Both maps are terrible for FFE no matter how hard you try to wall off. Even if you do some decent wallin like in Entombled Valley, an attack from 2 directions will just kill you.
Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway.
Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance You should be able to scout mutas in time. If he takes a very late third or none at all you kind of know it's either Muta or Infestor form two base. Either way you can just do the standard 4 Gate +1 build and transition in to Twilight for Blink then add on a Robo and Templars Archives once your safe from any sort of all in. BTW I really can't see how it would be much easier to deal with some sort of "cheesy mutalisk play" on maps like Tal'Darim or Antiga Shipyard. Infact judging by your statement I would probably say that it's even worse on Antiga where the distances between the wall, natural and main should be more spread out then on Entombled Valley.
The issue with mutas isn't that they somehow outright kill you. He's just gonna take the entire map while your third is impossible to take. Entombed Valley isn't so bad. It's like Taldarim without the huge distance, which made moving out vs mutas impossible without being maxed.
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I have to agree that FFEing on either of these maps is going to be ugly -- especially Arid.
But for those interested, here are a couple of alternative walloffs:
Entombed:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dw1lm.jpg)
Arid:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9cRzr.jpg)
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On December 21 2011 20:20 jnkw wrote:Arid:
I much prefer this walloff than those in the OP for Arid. I think it's better because this way the zerg has to move around the hole near the natural to change the attack side on your nexus.
But that's a lot of buildings : 3 for the wall-off, plus some pylons for the side entrance. But that's not as bad as XNC or Matalopolis, and I do FFE on those too (like coLrsvp taught me to on his stream).
Edit: typo.
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![[image loading]](http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2267/forgefearidplateau.png)
I like this one personally. The cyber core placement is debatable and prob won't go there. The bottom left cannon is nice because you can put a zealot there or hold position probes. There's also room, as you can see, to add more cannons and gateways for any roach/ling attacks. Also, you only need two pylons for this sim city versus three. This map is plain annoying to FE on though. Ever zerg has been opening gas and a ton of lings. I don't know if this trend will continue, but 3-gate expand is nice because you're always ahead on workers against this aggression
*Note* it's only been one day of the new season. Obv the meta game will change once zergs see that they can play super greedy on this map.
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On December 22 2011 05:42 brutality wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I like this one personally. The cyber core placement is debatable and prob won't go there. The bottom left cannon is nice because you can put a zealot there or hold position probes. There's also room, as you can see, to add more cannons and gateways for any roach/ling attacks. Also, you only need two pylons for this sim city versus three. This map is plain annoying to FE on though. Ever zerg has been opening gas and a ton of lings. I don't know if this trend will continue, but 3-gate expand is nice because you're always ahead on workers against this aggression *Note* it's only been one day of the new season. Obv the meta game will change once zergs see that they can play super greedy on this map.
I'm not sure I like this one, just because of the really exposed right cannon and pylon. It feels like it could be extremely susceptible to a roach-ling bust, and even if scouted it coming there's not that much room behind the right set of buildings to fit in emergency cannons.
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Neither map is ideal for FFE, but on Entombed if you only use 3 fat buildings then you will need to wall with a pylon or a cannon. I felt putting the Pylon as far back as possible so the Cannons will get max surface area and attack duration was the safest method.
You can FFE on Entombed with Forge, Gate, Gate, Core at the ramp (and follow it up with a pretty obvious Zealot timing), which is easily the safest against Roach and Baneling busts, but it severely limits your options after the expansion and kind of shows your intentions pretty plainly.
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Excellent, Entombed wasn't too hard to get the hang of but Arid was confusing me a lot, I prefer the alternate method of walling off as I don't like how the cannon blocks the geyser but fantastic guide nonetheless!
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Your wall on Arid is completely useless versus roach. Kill forge ----> go into main w/ ling
I like the second map's wall however
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i've been working on entombed, approaching it the same way genius (and i) approach antigua, using a centered pylon for the intial block and reinforcing to prevent busts. i personally always leave a gap as full walls are way too HI RES NO RUSH 10 MINS for my liking.
intial wall:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1OCyy.jpg)
reinforced wall (second cannon both acts as a choke and a way to defend/bring down the rocks when needed, second pylon to power/provide reinforcement at weak point):
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gt6TU.jpg)
ohshit mode:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/41UQO.jpg)
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i'm not sure of the range but on entombed valley should the cannon go on the other side since the rock cannon protects one side from cannons?
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Yeah I don't think we needed the pictures of Entombed Valley's wall-off. That is a very easy map to wall, but thanks for doing that anyways.
On Arid Plateau, I definitely think that it's possible to wall off. I like the way that Wookyman goes about it, because it provides a little bit more of a standard wall-off. I like oGsMC's way of doing this: if you can guard all your buildings with two cannons, the map is a safe map for FFE. *sagenod*
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i always wonder why bother with ffe if u need 2 cannons and still not be as safe as good ffe maps
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On December 22 2011 07:48 jnkw wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2011 05:42 brutality wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I like this one personally. The cyber core placement is debatable and prob won't go there. The bottom left cannon is nice because you can put a zealot there or hold position probes. There's also room, as you can see, to add more cannons and gateways for any roach/ling attacks. Also, you only need two pylons for this sim city versus three. This map is plain annoying to FE on though. Ever zerg has been opening gas and a ton of lings. I don't know if this trend will continue, but 3-gate expand is nice because you're always ahead on workers against this aggression *Note* it's only been one day of the new season. Obv the meta game will change once zergs see that they can play super greedy on this map. I'm not sure I like this one, just because of the really exposed right cannon and pylon. It feels like it could be extremely susceptible to a roach-ling bust, and even if scouted it coming there's not that much room behind the right set of buildings to fit in emergency cannons.
oh i completely agree, which is why i currently do not forge FE on this map. but you could put cannons/gateways in front of the forge, which is one of the reasons i liked it if i HAD to forge FE. Like Naniwa said, "forge FE, or die trying."
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I personally feel that this is the best wallin
![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/33392cw.jpg)
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On December 21 2011 20:20 jnkw wrote:I have to agree that FFEing on either of these maps is going to be ugly -- especially Arid. But for those interested, here are a couple of alternative walloffs: Arid:
Here, why not place the cannon where zealot is instead (but inside the base)? It will be exposed but pylon there = 100 minerals, zealot there = 100 minerals, canon there = 150. Although I guess having the zealot there provides a way out without having to break a building.
Also it will be more exposed to roaches, but so are standalone pylons. Vs ling, if you place it inside the base, surface area will be to small to be a danger
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On December 24 2011 02:59 iokke wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2011 20:20 jnkw wrote:I have to agree that FFEing on either of these maps is going to be ugly -- especially Arid. But for those interested, here are a couple of alternative walloffs: Arid: Here, why not place the cannon where zealot is instead (but inside the base)? It will be exposed but pylon there = 100 minerals, zealot there = 100 minerals, canon there = 150. Although I guess having the zealot there provides a way out without having to break a building. Also it will be more exposed to roaches, but so are standalone pylons. Vs ling, if you place it inside the base, surface area will be to small to be a danger
vs ling, roach and baneling the wall falls apart. The map is just terribad for toss
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On December 24 2011 02:47 synd wrote:I personally feel that this is the best wallin
LoL I totally agree except I kept Entombed in my map pool. I thought Arid was indeed, an arid and odious map right from the get-go.
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Good job, so far these are the best options I have found for FFE on these new maps. Personally I just 1 gate expand with some stargate pressure. I absolutely hate these maps after playing them a few times and am pretty sure I'm just going to veto it.
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I dunno. I tried to FFE on Entombed in my first Season 5 game. Six pool denied my natural but I survuved with a cannon next to my Nexus ans some sim city to keep the lings from hitting it (the cannon).
Personally, I think Protoss may need to do Gateway expands on these maps, definitely on Arid.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
How to FFE on Arid Plateau, AKA how to be dead as shit vs a gold league player doing a hatch cancel roach rush
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Is FFE the best opening on Arid Plateau? I like to do 2 gate expo. Is it viable on this map?
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On December 24 2011 02:47 synd wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I personally feel that this is the best wallin
LOL, omg I almost fell out of my chair laughing. Good one sir, good one.
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To those saying that you cant save ur nexus and that you have to abandon ur natural. You have to do that on xel naga, metalopolis,taldarim (i think), antiga and nerazim basically you have to do that on every map just pointing that out for you =).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/aridplateausimcity.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/forgefearidplateau.png/)
