EPT[G] FFE on Arid Plateau and Entombed Valley - Page 3
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Tekakan
Sweden78 Posts
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synd
Bulgaria586 Posts
Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway. Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On December 20 2011 23:03 synd wrote: Both maps are terrible for FFE no matter how hard you try to wall off. Even if you do some decent wallin like in Entombled Valley, an attack from 2 directions will just kill you. Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway. Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance I would agree about the map part but you could forgive yourself the balance part man... Its actualy gonna shake up with protoss gameplay on these maps if they ever get played in tournaments which is going to be interesting to say the least  | ||
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Tekakan
Sweden78 Posts
On December 20 2011 23:03 synd wrote: Both maps are terrible for FFE no matter how hard you try to wall off. Even if you do some decent wallin like in Entombled Valley, an attack from 2 directions will just kill you. Also the distance on Entombled Valley from your natural Nexus to the wallin is too big and some cheesy mutalisks play will just kill you anyway. Blizz proved us that Season4 map pool was a miracle and they won't ever do a good pool like that. In short: Blizz still sucks at map making and balance You should be able to scout mutas in time. If he takes a very late third or none at all you kind of know it's either Muta or Infestor form two base. Either way you can just do the standard 4 Gate +1 build and transition in to Twilight for Blink then add on a Robo and Templars Archives once your safe from any sort of all in. BTW I really can't see how it would be much easier to deal with some sort of "cheesy mutalisk play" on maps like Tal'Darim or Antiga Shipyard. Infact judging by your statement I would probably say that it's even worse on Antiga where the distances between the wall, natural and main should be more spread out then on Entombled Valley. | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/unlucky_17/Starcraft/forgewall.png) - Single cannon covers the entire space of your wall - Most vulnerable building is furthest from the attack point - Easy to plop down 2 more Cannons in great position if you scout an all-in or are going for some crazy tech play - Can still move between bases with 3 cannons - Archons can fit through the pylon hole once you open your wall if you morph them in your main. ![[image loading]](http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c3/unlucky_17/Starcraft/forgewall2.png) | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On December 21 2011 08:11 SidewinderSC2 wrote: I thought this was the overall safest way to FFE on Entombed, at least against all-ins and crazy whatnot. - Single cannon covers the entire space of your wall - Most vulnerable building is furthest from the attack point - Easy to plop down 2 more Cannons in great position if you scout an all-in or are going for some crazy tech play - Can still move between bases with 3 cannons - Archons can fit through the pylon hole once you open your wall if you morph them in your main. Guess this wall is the first that will come in mind to everyone when trying walloffs on this map. However its extremely fragile. Snipe pylon and have a nice blast in your main mineral line.. Guess this map is gonna be the trickiest | ||
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-eXalt
United States462 Posts
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pulpSC
United States31 Posts
(Which) The only complaint that I have for your wall-offs is that you seem to have to invest too much into buildings. I feel like by the time you get every single building up, and after dumping all your minerals into it, lings could already be in your base or a roach/ling all in would be there before the wall is even complete. I'm not no Grandmaster but typically the point of a FFE is to get your Nexus up as quickly and safely as possible. Making a wall that takes so many buildings is just minerals that could be spent in maybe just doing a well timed out push. | ||
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Tekakan
Sweden78 Posts
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WrathOfAiur
Germany243 Posts
On December 21 2011 18:26 Tekakan wrote: I disagree with SideWinder and pulp. I think walling off the ramp is much better. With that wall off there is a risk that any Roach bust will get a better concave then if you wall off the ramp and use the high ground to your advantage. yeah, I think walling of the ramp is the better choice. just get your second pylon near the rocks, should give you enough time to build some canons and/or create a second small wall-off to stop any roach/ling all-ins. | ||
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DropTester
Australia608 Posts
On December 21 2011 11:12 pulpSC wrote: (Which) The only complaint that I have for your wall-offs is that you seem to have to invest too much into buildings. I feel like by the time you get every single building up, and after dumping all your minerals into it, lings could already be in your base or a roach/ling all in would be there before the wall is even complete. I errr that's the normal amount of buildings that you use to wall off...? maybe plus or minus the extra pylon, but you usually use those three buildings and build a cannon behind. Unless you are trying to say something else..? | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On December 21 2011 02:31 Tekakan wrote: You should be able to scout mutas in time. If he takes a very late third or none at all you kind of know it's either Muta or Infestor form two base. Either way you can just do the standard 4 Gate +1 build and transition in to Twilight for Blink then add on a Robo and Templars Archives once your safe from any sort of all in. BTW I really can't see how it would be much easier to deal with some sort of "cheesy mutalisk play" on maps like Tal'Darim or Antiga Shipyard. Infact judging by your statement I would probably say that it's even worse on Antiga where the distances between the wall, natural and main should be more spread out then on Entombled Valley. The issue with mutas isn't that they somehow outright kill you. He's just gonna take the entire map while your third is impossible to take. Entombed Valley isn't so bad. It's like Taldarim without the huge distance, which made moving out vs mutas impossible without being maxed. | ||
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jnkw
Canada347 Posts
But for those interested, here are a couple of alternative walloffs: Entombed: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dw1lm.jpg) Arid: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9cRzr.jpg) | ||
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ant-1
Canada149 Posts
On December 21 2011 20:20 jnkw wrote: Arid: I much prefer this walloff than those in the OP for Arid. I think it's better because this way the zerg has to move around the hole near the natural to change the attack side on your nexus. But that's a lot of buildings : 3 for the wall-off, plus some pylons for the side entrance. But that's not as bad as XNC or Matalopolis, and I do FFE on those too (like coLrsvp taught me to on his stream). Edit: typo. | ||
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brutality
United States167 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/forgefearidplateau.png/) I like this one personally. The cyber core placement is debatable and prob won't go there. The bottom left cannon is nice because you can put a zealot there or hold position probes. There's also room, as you can see, to add more cannons and gateways for any roach/ling attacks. Also, you only need two pylons for this sim city versus three. This map is plain annoying to FE on though. Ever zerg has been opening gas and a ton of lings. I don't know if this trend will continue, but 3-gate expand is nice because you're always ahead on workers against this aggression  *Note* it's only been one day of the new season. Obv the meta game will change once zergs see that they can play super greedy on this map. | ||
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jnkw
Canada347 Posts
On December 22 2011 05:42 brutality wrote: + Show Spoiler + I like this one personally. The cyber core placement is debatable and prob won't go there. The bottom left cannon is nice because you can put a zealot there or hold position probes. There's also room, as you can see, to add more cannons and gateways for any roach/ling attacks. Also, you only need two pylons for this sim city versus three. This map is plain annoying to FE on though. Ever zerg has been opening gas and a ton of lings. I don't know if this trend will continue, but 3-gate expand is nice because you're always ahead on workers against this aggression *Note* it's only been one day of the new season. Obv the meta game will change once zergs see that they can play super greedy on this map. I'm not sure I like this one, just because of the really exposed right cannon and pylon. It feels like it could be extremely susceptible to a roach-ling bust, and even if scouted it coming there's not that much room behind the right set of buildings to fit in emergency cannons. | ||
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SidewinderSC2
United States236 Posts
You can FFE on Entombed with Forge, Gate, Gate, Core at the ramp (and follow it up with a pretty obvious Zealot timing), which is easily the safest against Roach and Baneling busts, but it severely limits your options after the expansion and kind of shows your intentions pretty plainly. | ||
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GleefulPiXie
Canada76 Posts
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Glon
United States569 Posts
I like the second map's wall however | ||
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pepsimaxibon
61 Posts
intial wall: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1OCyy.jpg) reinforced wall (second cannon both acts as a choke and a way to defend/bring down the rocks when needed, second pylon to power/provide reinforcement at weak point): ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/gt6TU.jpg) ohshit mode: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/41UQO.jpg) | ||
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