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Active: 646 users

Your views on BGH?

Forum Index > BW General
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MuShu
Profile Joined March 2005
United States3223 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 11:33:12
April 18 2005 11:32 GMT
#1
Read this at SCLegacy(http://www.sclegacy.com/showthread.php?t=259) and I already stuck to the idea a while ago that SC is just for fun, even for casual players, but not sure if most of the SC community was.

Quote:
Hi,

Wanted to mention that I really enjoy your website and all of the great Starcraft content that you provide. In my spare time, Starcraft is by far my favorite activity.

I wanted to quickly get your perspective on playing BGH. Now, I know that all the expert and progamers all consider BGH a newbie map. But for some of us, it's just the map that is the most fun to play. Granted, for my friends and I who play, our profile isn't typical for Starcraft. I'm a 32-year-old senior executive in a large consulting company. I have two kids and limited time, plus I'm old (for the SC community). I know that I'll never be able to micro well enough to be a really effective player on limited resource maps. However, that does not mean that I don't truly enjoy playing SC on BGH. I've hooked up with a number of younger plays who love BGH as well, and we all have a great time competing against others who also like playing that map.

BGH may not take the same skills, or as much micro skills as limited resource maps, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't take skill in order to win consistently on it. Having teams of 3 or 4 just adds to the complexity and management of the game. You may have more minerals to work with, but EVERYONE ELSE also has more minerals with which to use. You still need to manage your economy well, make sure you use all minerals quickly, as well as manage individual units. When I watch replays of losses, oftentimes the losing team couldn't multitask as well as the winning team, managing individual battles while at the same time keeping production going. SC is about balancing macromgmt and micromgmt. There's no doubt that limited resource relies on great micro skills, but BGH requires more macro skills.

The pimpest plays for 2004 were, as usual, great plays and innovations for expert play. However, in the BGH environment, many of those tactics have been used for a long time. I know, as it is mentioned on the website, that there is a huge difference in doing something on BGH versus in a progaming situation. But, I'd like to mention that we've been doing the arbiter/hallucination/recall for over 4 years. Cannon rushes using pylons to block-in have also been used for well over a year or two. Using lings (popping up from underground), volt mines or archon/DA merges to get past walls are also established moves.

Don't get me wrong. I can't even begin to compare the BGH micro skills with those of the true top limited resource players. But at the same time, it's very annoying when some of the SC community looks down upon BGH players. I enjoy the game of SC as much as anyone else and I hope that it stays around for a long, long time. Often, we'll create a '3v3 BGH EXPERT' game and someone will pop in to shout 'You can't be expert and play BGH' and then quickly exit the game join screen. I, personally, disagree. You can be an expert at playing BGH maps. It doesn't mean you'll be any good at LR maps, but it just means that you understand how the manage the game in the context of a specific map/resource profile.

Obviously, this email ran much longer than I intended when I first sat down to write it. But, I'd like to put out there that BGH players are as legitimate a user group in SC as anyone else, and it seems like it's a decently large group as well (at least on BNet). It would be great if there was some content specifically tailored towards BGH players. I don't want this to sound like a pansy 'Can't we all just get along?' email, but I do know that all of us are interested in extending the life of SC and the SC community, so our goals should/could be aligned.

Thanks and best regards,
--T

What are your thoughts?

Locked
Profile Joined September 2004
United States4182 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 11:40:02
April 18 2005 11:36 GMT
#2
the thing is.... yes playing BGH takes skills...... but playing 'real' maps take the same and _more_
people look down at moneymaps because they _are_ worse

its like lets "hey, lets play twister with 2 colors"


and when he talks about how they already use hallucination/recall "strats" i mean.. lol... the whole point it was a pimpest play because it was so impressive in a progame match with "limited" resources, although i prefer to consider it "normal" resources and moneymaps "excess" resources



oh and finally, you really can't be an expert and play BGH, although you could sortof be a "BGH expert" lol


final edit (really): also its REALLY FUCKING COOL that some 32 y/o senior company president plays starcraft and reads up on an sc website
UMS map pack http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50442
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
April 18 2005 11:46 GMT
#3
Money-map games are just watered down normal games. Watered down macro, nearly no micro, and it's imbalanced to boot. The games are nothing like normal games. I can understand not caring about what you are doing, but liking the starcraft atmosphere, but most of us love starcraft because of its speed, strategy, and intense multitasking.

Oh, and the PP didn't include anything new for melee players, either.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
BinaryStar
Profile Joined November 2004
Afghanistan669 Posts
April 18 2005 11:46 GMT
#4
I think it's fun.
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
April 18 2005 11:47 GMT
#5
I dont see anything wrong with BGH. Its like Hunters, except with a few more mineral nodes and almost 15x more minerals. Granted, you wont run out for a while, but its still limited, unlike moneymaps where each base probably has upward to 50 nodes each. And BGH still allows you to expand, and holds many aspects that kept it an adequate melee map.
Moonlight Shadow
FirstProbe
Profile Joined June 2004
1206 Posts
April 18 2005 11:54 GMT
#6
theres nothing wrong with BGH.
its not twister with two colours, it'd be twister with different colours - there are different aspects to the game play that you wouldn't see normally otherwise.
and with the expert thing... you might be pretty good at other maps and consider yourself good, but you won't be a BGH expert :D, just like a BGH expert won't be an expert on other maps. Its often a totally different dynamic.

Cygnus
Profile Joined February 2004
United States845 Posts
April 18 2005 11:56 GMT
#7
who cares about "skills" in this context.

BGH = FUN!
radiaL
Profile Joined August 2003
Andorra2690 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 12:05:29
April 18 2005 12:05 GMT
#8
BGH is just for fun
just like UMS
15 infinite mineral nodes, 2 infinite geysers, no other balance changes and boom there ya go
it's just like altered starcraft
now that's a fun ums! cept not the gay gas level one, the one thats purely like BGH cept with price/hp/build time changes
sideproject: twitch.tv Starcraft II Viewers data - http://twitchsc2data.com/
azndng
Profile Joined July 2004
United States344 Posts
April 18 2005 12:07 GMT
#9
there are really good bgh players, and really good "non money map" players. to each their own right?

and i do believe that it does take skills in playing bgh...not the SAME SKILL as in non money maps, but to an extent some skill. the first 3-5 minutes are ALMOST the same as play on LT.

u can use micro on bgh.. but the map was designed more for a all out macro battle.

i just played this 3v3 bgh game where i went a LT reaver rush build and raped two people badly, then i forgot i was on bw and some dts killed me (by the 3rd guy)
Chanoipy
Profile Joined May 2004
Canada320 Posts
April 18 2005 12:07 GMT
#10
I have no problem with BGH, and I believe that the popularity of BGH is one of the biggest reasons why Starcraft still manages to have 30K+ people on bnet at any one time. It is less intense and more forgiving than limited resource maps, while still retaining a strategic element and decent balance, which makes it better suited for a leisure activity, as opposed to a competitive sport.
...
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
April 18 2005 12:20 GMT
#11
you might be pretty good at other maps and consider yourself good, but you won't be a BGH expert :D, just like a BGH expert won't be an expert on other maps. Its often a totally different dynamic.


That's like saying a starcraft expert isn't a pokemon card game expert, and vice-versa. However, in both cases being a starcraft expert requires 100x more skill.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
useLess
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4781 Posts
April 18 2005 12:25 GMT
#12
On April 18 2005 21:20 ihatett wrote:
Show nested quote +
you might be pretty good at other maps and consider yourself good, but you won't be a BGH expert :D, just like a BGH expert won't be an expert on other maps. Its often a totally different dynamic.


That's like saying a starcraft expert isn't a pokemon card game expert, and vice-versa. However, in both cases being a starcraft expert requires 100x more skill.


What? Youre suddenly comparing two completely different things, when we're still talking about the dynamics of two different styles of the same gameplay. And no, Im not taking the post literally, but it still makes little sense to me.
Moonlight Shadow
EvilTeletubby
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
April 18 2005 12:26 GMT
#13
I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all... I just get annoyed by the ignorance displayed by some BGH player who consider themselves "good/experts" at the game, when they generally have horrible micro/macro/decision making/etc. I guess I just find non-money map players much less ignorant of the game as a whole. It's kind've like the post that was originally quoted, when he's claiming all the PP have been done before in money maps, etc... he's very ignorant of the level of play that some of those moves were done on... for example, I would love to see him go PvT against GF and be able to pull that move off. ^_^
Moderatorhttp://carbonleaf.yuku.com/topic/408/t/So-I-proposed-at-a-Carbon-Leaf-concert.html ***** RIP Geoff
EAGER-beaver
Profile Joined March 2004
Canada2799 Posts
April 18 2005 12:36 GMT
#14
BGH can be fun, it's a totally different kind of game though. Different, but still very fun, depends on the kind of player. As a randomer I love every matchup on any map, so I'm wierd in that way. I put my foot down on micro maps, or those fastest possible maps, those are just plain crap.
Simon and Garfunkel rock my face off
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 12:38:32
April 18 2005 12:36 GMT
#15
On April 18 2005 21:26 EvilTeletubby wrote:
I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all... I just get annoyed by the ignorance displayed by some BGH player who consider themselves "good/experts" at the game, when they generally have horrible micro/macro/decision making/etc. I guess I just find non-money map players much less ignorant of the game as a whole. It's kind've like the post that was originally quoted, when he's claiming all the PP have been done before in money maps, etc... he's very ignorant of the level of play that some of those moves were done on... for example, I would love to see him go PvT against GF and be able to pull that move off. ^_^


I was trying to say all that in my post, but you did it better.
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
ShadowMaster
Profile Joined September 2004
United States238 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 12:46:50
April 18 2005 12:45 GMT
#16
Blah. Playing Shogi takes more skill than playing Starcraft. Therefore, Shogi is better.

Btw, though, do you think that there are any virtues that a "serious" SC player (or one wanting to improve) could gain by practicing BGH? Macro, maybe?
Ammo
Profile Joined November 2004
Canada32 Posts
April 18 2005 13:04 GMT
#17
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.
Sky101
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States1758 Posts
April 18 2005 13:25 GMT
#18
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.
Peter, Dang, pm me!!!
paper
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
13196 Posts
Last Edited: 2005-04-18 14:14:37
April 18 2005 14:14 GMT
#19
On April 18 2005 22:25 Sky101 wrote:
Lol what a fag, senior executive my fucking ass, he writes like a 14 year-old.


have you ever seen any essays by 14-year old kids? esp. in the u.s.?

besides, a top position like that doesn't necessarily mean anything .. hard work can place you at the top.
Hates Fun🤔
ihatett
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2289 Posts
April 18 2005 14:16 GMT
#20
On April 18 2005 22:04 Ammo wrote:
I really think retards who say "I don't mind people who play BGH for fun at all" have really low self-esteem. Who the hell are you to be in the position of "not minding" what others do? Are you like the international referee for all Starcraft-related activity? If kids play soccer in your backyard, then you may or may not mind: it's YOUR backyard. When other people play Starcraft in ways that provide them with a moment of harm-free leisure, it is such a fucking stupid thing to say "i don't mind". The It's just none of your business. You sound like tough guys on a basketball court laughing at people who double-dribble and don't care. And tough guys usually laugh at others cuz they just don't have a life. "What do you think of people who play BGH?" Man, what a fucking lame question, so damn elitist. Sounds like intellectual ghettoism and eugenics put together. Sorry for my vehemence, I love to see people have fun without having to put up with others better than them who say "that's not the right way". There.


you are cool and unique
I love Protoss because it is tough and straight. Protoss is the race for men.
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