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[M] Hypnosis Bridge 1.0

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
Post a Reply
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 08:29:15
August 25 2011 05:49 GMT
#1
Hypnosis Bridge v.1.2

This is now live on NA. Please PM me or email to my gmail address with this handle if you find any bugs. Thanks!
+ Show Spoiler [old] +
Hypnosis Bridge v.0.98

Sorry about the "misleading" title, but while I might tweak one or two things this is pretty much done. It will be published soon.


This map is dedicated to TehTemplar and G_Wen. TehTemplar came up with the name ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10868685 ) and G_Wen made me realize that I wanted to try my experimental land formation with only four possible routes instead of eight ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=10881356 ), though I must say I still prefer the single reversal of curvature at the middle.

I paused my other map ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=255017 ) which is still a work in progress to make this before someone swooped in to steal the name before I did. I dare say I will probably publish this one first.


Creation Details:
+ Show Spoiler +
While I hadn't originally intended to use the octagonal, spiral, super-ramp of death again, the combination of the comments from the gentlemen mentioned above sparked my creative nerve. I decided that I should make this map and fast. I have to apologize that the hypnotic effect isn't nearly as strong on this map, but I tried.

I had already been playing with a number of other map concepts in head since the last batch had been set in binary in the aforementioned work in progress. While I certainly fit quite a few into that map, I couldn't do all of them at once. So this map also features the next bunch of ideas I hope can help create a spark for the pro mappers out there.

One thing I really wanted to do was create a main that had more than the standard ramp or even ramp plus back door. Unlike the WIP, I did want to keep it to under eight potential enterances. However, I also didn't want to make it impossible to defend early rushes. So while I did utilize three of my old friends (distance, rocks, and mineral blocks) from the WIP, I also utilize a new device: CRAMMING my old friends into a really small space! All three land paths into the main base are right next to each other and in immediate view of the spawn location inside the main. While these can help to keep out the early rush, I'm quite sure clever cheese will be rewarded since there are still three chokes to defend.

An overarching concept I wanted to bring with this map is a balance between clockwise and counter-clockwise expanasion. I'll let the pros judge, but I think I pulled it off fairly well. The way I think I achieved this was through a combination of some of the elements I was trying. First, as mentioned, the ability to move out of the base in three different ways, each having potential to expand in a different way. Second, extreme usage of terrain height -- I mean, I go nuts here, amirite? And third, and sort of partly a byproduct of the last aspect, separate subsections of the map. What I mean by this is that there is a sort of sectioning off of the outer ring, middle ring, and inner ring. The inner ring is the Hypnosis Bridge itself. The middle ring is the area that is low ground where the naturals are. And the outer ring are where all those crazy expasions are.

One of the less "to build a perfect map" and more "to try something crazy and new" was the sight into the main from the Xel'Naga tower. This sight is just good enough for things like warping in or nydusing, but not for any meaningful siege. There is only a tiny portion of the main that it gives vision to and the place where it gives vision you might as well have had an overlord or hallucination or floating building there, so I don't think it really breaks the "never have a tower see into the main" rule... too much...

The last thing that I was trying, and this was more off the cuff than something I was thinking about, was the bridges outside the nose of the main. These started out as simple doodads until I realized they had no pathing. After finding minimal helpful advice ( http://www.thehelper.net/forums/showthread.php/154402-Bridge-problems-with-a-doodad / http://www.sc2mod.com/board/index.php?page=Thread&postID=2038 ) I just decided to go with the advice I found somewhere on team liquid which was "put land under it"! So yeah, they not real bridges.. they only sit about .02 whatever units of measure above the ground to minimize the graphic distortion, but I couldn't bring myself to try to figure out how to make a 45* bridge with only the sc2mod guy's tutorial... plus I didn't really want to deal with step 12 after so much love went into the map as it was.

So anyway, about the "bridge" itself: it is unbuildable and blocks creep. 'nuff said.

Oh and one last thing, the wavy interlock of the outer and middle rings was somewhat by chance, but I think it works in favor of the map name.



Map Pics:
+ Show Spoiler +

Overview
[image loading]

Analyzer
+ Show Spoiler +

A quick note, there are three sets of analyzer pics each showing how far a particular route takes if it were open. To do this I had to modify the map for the latter two shots in the bunch, so consider the first shot the "main route". I just picked one set of close & cross positions to look at because all of the numbers are pretty much the same.

Bases
[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [2-5 mains] +
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+ Show Spoiler [2-5 nats] +
[image loading]
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+ Show Spoiler [2-8 mains] +
[image loading]
[image loading]
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+ Show Spoiler [2-8 nats] +
[image loading]
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Summary
[image loading]




Map Specifications:
  • Size -- 180x180 playable (208x208 full)
  • # Players -- 4
  • Main Locations -- Inside 2 / Inside 5 / Inside 8 / Inside 11
  • # Bases -- 28
    • 20x 8min, 2gas {all except...} (standard min/gas amount)
    • 4x 6min 1rich gas {back corner} (standard min/gas count)
    • 4x 6rich min 2rich gas {on Teh bridge} (standard min/gas count)
    • 4x non-"base" 3min {blocking main ramp} (50 min)

  • # Xel'Naga Watchtowers -- 8 (may change, may just adjust positioning slightly, we will see...)
  • Line of Sight Blockers -- 8
    • Nose of main
    • "Reaper hole" near mineral blocked main ramp

  • Destructible Rocks -- 4 (covering high ground path at main)
  • Unpathable terrain -- 4 -- unbuildable/uncreepable bridges



Change Log:
OP -- version 0.98 posted
Edit1 -- version 1.2 published to NA, minor edits (middle ramps slightly wider, high ground Xel'Naga towers moved to other side of little ravine, some glitched resources fixed -- this jumped to 1.2 because I published private to test with some peeps and made fixes in between)


Final comments:
You will have to please excuse the poor texture job, I'm really just much more interested in the mechanics so the textures are really just an after thought too me. I tried to make it look at least somewhat put together and not like I just awoke it from last night's rave, but I make no promises.

Again you will notice that my Broodwar roots are not waning as it is another square map. Probably 90% of my maps will be.

Finally, and again, I'm not really interested in this becoming the next best map in X, Y, and Z tournaments. My maps are meant to be a point of discussion and hopefully inspiration. If there are tournament worthy qualities, I'd be interested in hearing what they are, especially the ones that I think are "original". I would also like to know what wouldn't work that has been put into the map (other than the fact that it is big... oh and it is big!), but please frame it as a point of discussion and not "o h u D u s t i n B r o w d e r ! u m a p e z f a i l !" because that is just not helpful in any way.

+ Show Spoiler [PS for mod] +
The images aren't rendering properly again -- I uploaded analyzer shots to igmur in advance and copied links, but the overview shot I uploaded through TL and is showing right. Is that the only way to get it to render correctly? PM me with your mystic knowledge.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
JoeAWESOME
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden1080 Posts
August 25 2011 06:55 GMT
#2
Awesome job! Will check it out when I get home!

Is it upt on EU servers?
Simply Awesome! - Liquid'Ret - NSHoSeo_Seal - coLMVP_DRG - EG_Idra - Fnatic.NightEnd
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
August 25 2011 09:40 GMT
#3
Ty :D
I only have a small complaint to this map.
It's very hard to get into your opponent's base. Looking at the analyzer distances shows that the distances are very long (150-160 is best) and that they go through very narrow choke points.
Mining the mineral fields makes the rush distances bearable in closest positions (159?) but still goes through really narrow choke points.
Open up a Lot of the paths, and make the ramps wider.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
August 25 2011 09:53 GMT
#4
i think you are trying too much with this map and the map has some problems with spacing and base distances.

on the one hand there are some really interesting ideas like backdoors with minerals that open new expansion options, dropable cliffs that can be defended by taking out rocks, tucked away third, an inside and outside circle etc. as i said: you are trying to put too many interesting features together that could be much better when used as unique features.

also the spaces are cramped, paths are narrow, many bases are just hard to reach behind cominations of chokes and ramps and so on.

the map is too cramped, but overall it may not be bigger really. therefore i suggest you pick up a few aspects you like best and put them into a similar, but differently scaled layout. your distances are huge! it just does not work like that at all.

suggestion: combine the backdoor with blocking minerals with the inside-outside-circle idea, make a middle that is more open and a base layout that is a bit more conservative and straight forward and you really have a map that is playable and intersting for discussion.

as you said you want to have discourse, so you better make the map playable and not a big chunk of features put together in a strange way

seriously: how do you push against a cross spawn opponent?



HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 13:29:50
August 25 2011 12:56 GMT
#5
@JoeAWESOME -- I am not on EU and I have not yet published the map. I will probably do so this weekend on NA when I finish the tweaks I am going to make. If you would like to publish the map on EU for me please PM.

@ TehTemplar -- YW For argument sake, how wide are we talkin, boss? And in which places in particular?

@ Samro225am -- I agree, I *am* trying to do too much with this map! As I said in the OP, I mean for my maps to be a point of discussion and inspiration for *other* map makers, and am not necessarily trying to make my maps the most playable. So if you see a neat idea, grab it! I'd love to see the playable version of something I made!

It is good to hear though what you think is not very playable about the map so that others might be able to take an idea from me and make it into more playable version than I have. As for this map, I probably will not change anything too drastically. Think of it as a sort of index of features represented graphically.

One thing that you mentioned that I meant to say in the OP is the fact that I give the effect of having a bigger map by forcing the march through the middle to be pretty long. This kind of thing could be used on smaller maps to get more play time out of it. The trade off to having a path that doubles back to increase the distance is making your path width narrower, as you mention.

On August 25 2011 18:53 Samro225am wrote:
suggestion: combine the backdoor with blocking minerals with the inside-outside-circle idea, make a middle that is more open and a base layout that is a bit more conservative and straight forward and you really have a map that is playable and intersting for discussion.


I think this is a really good idea. I would like to see someone do this really well in a tight, competitive map... as well as a really pretty map, heh. I think if I were to do this I would need to start from scratch and just focus on those properties, but I'm not sure I really have the skill or vision to do that yet. My strength is innovation, but visualizing the competitive need is my weakness. Hence these idea maps, and not a map for each idea that I've had.

On August 25 2011 18:53 Samro225am wrote:
seriously: how do you push against a cross spawn opponent?


As far as actually playing this map in its current form goes, I think this map lends itself to air very well since there are many close and somewhat easily defended bases to fuel the economy for it, and I could see carriers even coming into play with all of the ridges and chokes. As far as pushing by ground goes, I think drops, nydus (lots in different safe-but-closer positions, I miss all of the defensive nydusing that used to be done in BW ), warp and multi-pronged attacks are the way to go, and abuse the fact that there are at least three "main" paths between each base. It is certainly not going to lend itself to the fastest games, though I do think there are some cheeses that could still work.

Edit: Samro225am -- I have to mention this before I forget but I find it funny and ironic that your critique in a sense is to make my map "more standard" when you posted the Mapping Challenge ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254355 ) the purpose of which is to "build a progressive, interesting and unique map that is different from the standards and dare the community to do the same". You're just mad that I didn't make this asymmetric and post it to your thread. hahaha Love you, man.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
August 27 2011 02:05 GMT
#6
On August 25 2011 21:56 HypertonicHydroponic wrote:
@JoeAWESOME -- I am not on EU and I have not yet published the map. I will probably do so this weekend on NA when I finish the tweaks I am going to make. If you would like to publish the map on EU for me please PM.

@ TehTemplar -- YW For argument sake, how wide are we talkin, boss? And in which places in particular?

@ Samro225am -- I agree, I *am* trying to do too much with this map! As I said in the OP, I mean for my maps to be a point of discussion and inspiration for *other* map makers, and am not necessarily trying to make my maps the most playable. So if you see a neat idea, grab it! I'd love to see the playable version of something I made!

It is good to hear though what you think is not very playable about the map so that others might be able to take an idea from me and make it into more playable version than I have. As for this map, I probably will not change anything too drastically. Think of it as a sort of index of features represented graphically.

One thing that you mentioned that I meant to say in the OP is the fact that I give the effect of having a bigger map by forcing the march through the middle to be pretty long. This kind of thing could be used on smaller maps to get more play time out of it. The trade off to having a path that doubles back to increase the distance is making your path width narrower, as you mention.

Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 18:53 Samro225am wrote:
suggestion: combine the backdoor with blocking minerals with the inside-outside-circle idea, make a middle that is more open and a base layout that is a bit more conservative and straight forward and you really have a map that is playable and intersting for discussion.


I think this is a really good idea. I would like to see someone do this really well in a tight, competitive map... as well as a really pretty map, heh. I think if I were to do this I would need to start from scratch and just focus on those properties, but I'm not sure I really have the skill or vision to do that yet. My strength is innovation, but visualizing the competitive need is my weakness. Hence these idea maps, and not a map for each idea that I've had.

Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 18:53 Samro225am wrote:
seriously: how do you push against a cross spawn opponent?


As far as actually playing this map in its current form goes, I think this map lends itself to air very well since there are many close and somewhat easily defended bases to fuel the economy for it, and I could see carriers even coming into play with all of the ridges and chokes. As far as pushing by ground goes, I think drops, nydus (lots in different safe-but-closer positions, I miss all of the defensive nydusing that used to be done in BW ), warp and multi-pronged attacks are the way to go, and abuse the fact that there are at least three "main" paths between each base. It is certainly not going to lend itself to the fastest games, though I do think there are some cheeses that could still work.

Edit: Samro225am -- I have to mention this before I forget but I find it funny and ironic that your critique in a sense is to make my map "more standard" when you posted the Mapping Challenge ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=254355 ) the purpose of which is to "build a progressive, interesting and unique map that is different from the standards and dare the community to do the same". You're just mad that I didn't make this asymmetric and post it to your thread. hahaha Love you, man.


I would make the middle more open if anything, so that you could actually manage to attack an opponent.
Now, I hate using my own maps as an example (), but you could make the chokes/ramps THIS wide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241312 and still be pretty good.
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
August 27 2011 04:13 GMT
#7
On August 27 2011 11:05 TehTemplar wrote:
I would make the middle more open if anything, so that you could actually manage to attack an opponent.
Now, I hate using my own maps as an example (), but you could make the chokes/ramps THIS wide: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=241312 and still be pretty good.

No problem, plug away. After all this map was dedicated to you.

One thing I'm not sure the pictures of my map convey is how much space it is actually using up -- it is a fully utilized 180x180. Area wise, it is probably about double the size of the map you linked to, maybe more. This plays a great deal into the rush distance being so long. It wasn't as long on my other map because the mains were set significantly closer together even though that map was actually slightly larger (182x182).

Also, the size of the map also hides a little how wide some of the ramps actually are. My ramps in the middle are 3-4 ramp-units wide (not quite as wide as some of the ramps in your middle), but it is a little hard to tell since it is zoomed out so far. I could make them wider, but it is the "hypnosis spiral" that really is making the distance through the middle so long, not the ramps. Widening the ramps without modifying the shape would only cut off a negligible distance for how long that distance is, and I do not really want to sacrifice that land formation since, as you know, it is the part of the map you named. No point in the map if there is no Hypnosis Bridge.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
August 27 2011 08:31 GMT
#8
This is now published on NA. Please give give it a spin or two and let me know what you think.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
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