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The Mapping Challenge

Forum Index > SC2 Maps & Custom Games
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Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-18 07:46:12
August 13 2011 10:57 GMT
#1
The Mapping Challenge

Running event:
Mapping Challenge #1 Asymmetric Maps

Past events:
-

+ Show Spoiler [Background] +
Samro wrote:
Rigt now many people make maps on a great level. there are so many talented guys around and also a bunch of new people stepping up their mapping and i kind of whish for having less competition and more fun trying some crazy stuff.
It is very hard to make a 4 player map that is interesting and balanced. for reflective symmetry as well as rotational symmetry there are a few standards that work well. probably we need more three player maps again or more shift symmetry stuff.


Barrin wrote:
The other 7 out of the 12 were rotational symmetry. Of these 7 rotational symmetry 4-player maps, 4 of them could be described like this: 16 bases. Main in corners connected to natural, third base (minerals) up against the main, and potential 4th bases between each of these with two entrances (one entrance connecting to a third, one entrance connecting to an area right outside the natural). A significantly open center with slight pathing restrictions, and either 4 watch towers (2 of these maps) or no watch towers (the other 2).


EatThePath wrote:
As to the idea of map challenges to get creativity flowing, I like it. However, against metaphor: that's like writing a catchy musical phrase. You still have to do a lot of work to put it in a song that turns out masterful, and you can't just evaluate it without context. Maps are exactly the same and you can only evaluate something by seeing the obvious and subtle interplay of the map elements and how they are used by players.

So, great for generating ideas but they still have to go into maps which are crafted over long hours in order to see "is this really something worthwhile I've hit upon?". That is why I want to see the innovations in the more breathable 2player maps to see how these paper planes fly, not just bend the wings differently on the same old style. Not that I don't like seeing a sweet fucking paper airplane regardless.

I think there is room for innovating with mirror symmetry, and there is a TON of space to do shifted symmetry style.



iGrok wrote:
More 3 player maps please.





Challenge the current state of mapping and challenge the mapping community to build better maps



What is the Mapping Challenge?

Declare a challenge, define the rules and build a progressive, interesting and unique map that is different from the standards and dare the community to do the same.

+ Show Spoiler +
Start the 100x100 Challenge or the Asymmetric Challenge, dare us to build a 5-playerstart or an island map or even show us in a speedmapping challenge if you think you are fast in cosnrtucting a map.
Anything is possible here.

The crazier your challenge the less people might attend it, but the more fruitfull it might actually be if it asks a lot of the most tallented people here.

This thread is meant to discuss our ideas and organize the challenges.




What are the rules for the Mapping Challenge?

1. Come up with an idea and post it in this thread, e.g. "100x100" & Define the framework (what is the challenge, what is the timeframe, are there any limitations?)
+ Show Spoiler [2.-7.] +
2. Hope for positive reactions to your ideas.
3. I will edit your ideas into this post, so that we all can keep track of all Mapping Challenge ideas. If there is a certain number of people interested, we can open a specific thread [Mapping Challenge] + topic
4. You challenged us, now you have to judge us: Award "Special Prizes" to all maps including yours as well if you think it is that good! You will judge the maps together with a group of judges that changes with every challenge.
optional:
5. Argue with the others if the prices were well deserved
6. Organize a meet&play or KotH with all maps



Why should we do this, what is The Mapping's Challenge aim?

+ Show Spoiler [1.-5.] +
1. This is not about building the most played maps ever or constructing something that is better than a ladder map.
2. The Mapping Challenge is complementary to other mapping related organizations or tournaments like MotM and works outside the "team"-oriented thinking (los, iccup, tpw, etc.)
3. The Mapping Challenge wants to emphasize more experiemental approaches.
4. The Mapping Challenge wants to make the better and more experienced map makers share their ideas and show intersting but probably less polished stuff
5. Allow new, talented guys with less experience to join in the competition with one great idea and step up their mapping skills and try new stuff without having to fight threw MotM after MotM without ever seeing their map in the top5.


and again:

EatThePath wrote:
great for generating ideas but they still have to go into maps which are crafted over long hours in order to see "is this really something worthwhile I've hit upon?". (...)
I think there is room for innovating with mirror symmetry, and there is a TON of space to do shifted symmetry style.


Maybe one of us stumbles over something that later shows to be a great idea and can be developed into a good map.
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-14 18:59:34
August 13 2011 10:58 GMT
#2
please feel free to suggest challenges and discuss the format


possible topic

1. one cliff level with/without using cliffs
On August 13 2011 20:12 lefix wrote:
one cliff level


2. Maze
On August 13 2011 20:12 lefix wrote:
mazes (fun maps)


3. 3-player map
On August 14 2011 01:27 RevThirteen wrote:
Make a 3 Player map which functions and plays out as close as possible to how Shakuras works!
Thereby eleminating the problem of some spawns not being active. ^^



4. a map that if everything but mirrored
On August 14 2011 01:45 FlopTurnReaver wrote:
Well I think WniO did something last month that would be very interesting to see in such a challenge: Make a map that's everything else but mirrored but still as balanced as possible.


5. expanding away
On August 14 2011 03:51 iGrok wrote:
Challenge: Create a map in which you always expand away from your opponent, but has at least a 35 second rush distance main -> main, and isn't base-trade city!


6.Forcefields
On August 14 2011 04:34 TedJustice wrote:
Use pre-placed forcefields in an interesting way. Careful, cause they can bug pathing. Units pretend forcefields don't exist when they calculate pathing, so you've got to keep that in mind.


7. Creep
On August 14 2011 04:34 TedJustice wrote:
Use neutral creep tumors in some way. You can put them on a 1x1 high ground area to make it so they won't spread creep unless there's already creep near them.


8. Fixing a map / Searing Crater
On August 14 2011 04:39 FlopTurnReaver wrote:
New idea (thanks prodiG):

Turn Searing Crater into a good, balanced map.

Take that TL!


9. Islands
On August 14 2011 04:35 Gl!tch wrote:
Island maps :D


10. Low Mains
On August 14 2011 06:47 Phried wrote:
Mains on lowest ground only.



11. 7-player
On August 14 2011 14:04 Archvil3 wrote:
Challenge: Make a 7 player rotational symetri map!


12. 2 in 1 / Twisted Symmetry / Starparty
On August 14 2011 20:29 Ragoo wrote:
But there is one more possibility that is yet very unexplored: 4-2 maps (Superouman's name for it) or double cross/double 2player maps (suggestions for future naming from me^^).

This means maps with 4 spawns, but only cross spawns are mirrored and playable.

So yeah, I challenge everybody to make more maps like this cause I think there is sooo many possibilities and having two 1v1 maps in one map is just cool :D


13. 5-player map
On August 15 2011 03:11 iGrok wrote:
Also my challenge to anyone out there: Make a 5p map that can handle neighbor spawns.


14. small maps: 80x80 or 88x88
mentioned by lefix
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
August 13 2011 11:12 GMT
#3
just a few more ideas:
one cliff level
mazes (fun maps)

but i personally think it would be better to put together a small orga team that will pick the best suggestions and run these challenges instead of relying on people doing it themselves.
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
SaltyDog
Profile Joined January 2011
Uganda73 Posts
August 13 2011 11:17 GMT
#4
I like the idea of making some maps that defy the current model. Overall map structure is so monotonous these days, that's why I stopped making melee maps.
I'm unemployed, so I make maps.
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
August 13 2011 11:27 GMT
#5
oh, and i like this idea alot
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
August 13 2011 14:49 GMT
#6
On August 13 2011 20:12 lefix wrote:
but i personally think it would be better to put together a small orga team that will pick the best suggestions and run these challenges instead of relying on people doing it themselves.

This. I think any other way will just cause chaos.

Cool idea.
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
August 13 2011 15:03 GMT
#7
On August 13 2011 23:49 FlopTurnReaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 13 2011 20:12 lefix wrote:
but i personally think it would be better to put together a small orga team that will pick the best suggestions and run these challenges instead of relying on people doing it themselves.

This. I think any other way will just cause chaos.

Cool idea.



naturally i am interested in getting this running. This thread can be used to discuss topics as well as forms of organization... i mainly started this just to see who is interested - tbh i think every one here should be!



if everyone just throws any idea in it is chaos. personally I would suggest a topic/theme only if I thought, ok, I have a really nice idea and now i want to challenge others to think about a similar "problem" and we see who comes up with the best idea. I little bit like the motm 3player that actually posed quite a problem to be solved for many.

there is no judging, like a ranking of maps, but rather challenge others to think about an intersting map format one is interested in, too.

Therefore i would like to encourage everyone who can think of an intersting topic also to participate in the challenge - that is the nature of the challenge - and also in the judging.



yet i cannot do the organization like one would have to do for something like motm. i do not want a judge's board really. It is more about map makers sharing ideas and competition in small challenges. I rather see this as a community project by and for map makers.


open for suggestions on how to solve this.
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 15:17:47
August 13 2011 15:17 GMT
#8
kinda sporadic topic to be honest but i like the idea. isnt that what the whole sc2 custom area in TL is for anyways? lol.
EDIT: also, people should stop using custom tilesets. imo. its lazy.
Samro225am
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany982 Posts
August 13 2011 15:25 GMT
#9
On August 14 2011 00:17 WniO wrote:
EDIT: also, people should stop using custom tilesets. imo. its lazy.


is this a challenge? :D


On August 14 2011 00:17 WniO wrote:
kinda sporadic topic to be honest but i like the idea. isnt that what the whole sc2 custom area in TL is for anyways? lol.


yeah, kind of. but really, so few people show crazy stuff (including me), everybody wants to be professionel in a way, but one is also afraid to give away too much. often discussion about maps is moved away from the forums into the various teams, etc.

i hope the challenge format could bring together people to discuss mapping, try out stuff and also allow newbies to compete with more experienced map makers outside of motm that really wants one to make a polished, solid and balanced competitive play map - which is a good thing.

your last map would be a perfect startingpoint btw. among other reasons it motivated me to think about this thing.
WniO
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2706 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 15:38:07
August 13 2011 15:36 GMT
#10
woah thanks. ill be interested to see where this thread goes.

edit again: something like this would be great because after each motm finalists theres a drought of maps on the forum for a good week or two.
RevThirteen
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden116 Posts
August 13 2011 16:27 GMT
#11
Make a 3 Player map which functions and plays out as close as possible to how Shakuras works!
Thereby eleminating the problem of some spawns not being active. ^^
Sea_Food
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Finland1612 Posts
August 13 2011 16:43 GMT
#12
On August 14 2011 01:27 RevThirteen wrote:
Make a 3 Player map which functions and plays out as close as possible to how Shakuras works!
Thereby eleminating the problem of some spawns not being active. ^^


I tried to sketch that in my head. My head hurts now -.-
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
August 13 2011 16:45 GMT
#13
Well I think WniO did something last month that would be very interesting to see in such a challenge: Make a map that's everything else but mirrored but still as balanced as possible.

I think the whole mapmaking community could benefit from such a project since some cool features could come out of it that could be used in tournament maps too.
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
iGrok
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5142 Posts
August 13 2011 18:51 GMT
#14
Challenge: Create a map in which you always expand away from your opponent, but has at least a 35 second rush distance main -> main, and isn't base-trade city!
MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
August 13 2011 19:27 GMT
#15
isn't that kind of the challenge you face each time you try to make a standard melee map?
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
August 13 2011 19:31 GMT
#16
Sounds like a DO style map challenge.
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
August 13 2011 19:34 GMT
#17
2 challenges.

1. Use pre-placed forcefields in an interesting way. Careful, cause they can bug pathing. Units pretend forcefields don't exist when they calculate pathing, so you've got to keep that in mind.

2. Use neutral creep tumors in some way. You can put them on a 1x1 high ground area to make it so they won't spread creep unless there's already creep near them.
Gl!tch
Profile Joined December 2010
United States573 Posts
August 13 2011 19:35 GMT
#18
Island maps :D
“I mean, they say you die twice. One time when you stop breathing and a second time, a bit later on, when somebody says your name for the last time.” ― Banksy
FlopTurnReaver
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Switzerland1980 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-13 19:39:54
August 13 2011 19:39 GMT
#19
New idea (thanks prodiG):

Turn Searing Crater into a good, balanced map.

Take that TL!
Check out @MapOfTheMonth on Twitter and under http://bit.ly/motmorg
lefix
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1082 Posts
August 13 2011 19:44 GMT
#20
np, just gotta put in more rocks
Map of the Month | The Planetary Workshop | SC2Melee.net
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