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Active: 1554 users

Totalbiscuit on IdrA's casting

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Swineflew
Profile Joined October 2010
United States61 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 10:21:21
May 13 2011 07:06 GMT
#1
Mod Edit:
This is a response by TotalBiscuit posted on reddit to an opinion piece entitled "Some Advice to Casters: What IdrA brings to NASL’s Table" by Gosu.com


+ Show Spoiler +
I'm rather disappointed that this article did very little to substantiate it's claims, but allow me to try and provide a counterpoint anyway.

IdrA is not a good caster. He does not have the training to be a good caster, he is too quiet, he is frequently monotone, he stumbles in his speech, he has no flow to speak of, he lacks the ability to express passion and emotion. He is however, an analyst of exceptional skill and calibre, easily one of the best in the business. He should be lauded for this however the distinction must be made there.

This is how sportscasting works 101 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_by_play

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_commentator

IdrA is a colour-commentator. He fits all the criteria, he is analytical, he is there to provide background and extensive game knowledge, based on experience as a current/ex-player. He is there to fill in time when the play-by-play commentator is not talking and as a knowledgeable resource to back up the play-by-play commentator, who is more often than not, not a professional player/coach/ex-player, but a professional broadcaster.

Of the listed commentators in the IPL, there was 1 colour commentator (Painuser) and 4 play-by-play commentators (HD, DJWheat, Catspyjamas and myself). This was in itself a problem and is not the correct setup, something that all the casters have acknowledged publically and are doing their utmost to resolve (to the point where Apollo may be moving in with me temporarily if we are chosen to cast IPL 2, doing all my assigned matchs with in-studio co-commentary).

Now onto the main point of this article, the idea of 'telling it like it is'. This is fairly ironic in itself, since casters frequently get criticised for doing such shallow things as telling people what's going on. Half the time it seems some hardcore viewers have an Inception mindset "WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER!", demanding almost precognitive casting and metaphysical insight. Lasers may also be involved.

It is not the play-by-play casters job to tell you when a game is over, it is the play-by-play casters job to heighten tension, provoke emotion and increase the viewer's excitement. You cannot do that by calling a game before it ends. The climax of a game should be the GG, regardless of whether or not it's blatantly too late. You call a GG 10 minutes before it actually happens, even if it's absolutely the right call, then you stop engaging a good portion of your viewers, specifically the majority of the viewerbase, the casuals who are there for entertainment. In-depth analysis in sports is generally done post-game, not mid-game. There is definitely space for analysis, plenty of it, but drowning a viewer in 10 mins of in-depth analysis of how Player A fucked up while the game is still going on in the background, will turn off the casual viewer.

I should also point out that it is not dishonest to avoid calling game over before it actually happens. You can without question explain that the situation is very bad for Player A with a wide variety of colourful synonyms and language. However, let us consider the viewing demographic.

Your average master's league player, hell even high diamond, is definitely analytical enough and knowledgeable enough to see when it's over. He does not need to be told that it's over. He will not learn anything from being told that it's over. I refer to this sentence at the end of the article

"Don’t be afraid to tell us when a game is over, or when players aren’t playing like they deserve our attention. Do so, and your audience will only gain a better understanding of the game."

Hardcore players will not learn anything from this. Casual players more often than not, don't WANT to learn anything from this. Different kinds of people watch SC2 for different reasons. SC2 has a substantial viewerbase that doesn't even own the game for god's sake, what do you think they tune in for? It certainly isn't to learn how to play better, they don't play at all. No, they tune in to watch one of the most, if not the most exciting eSport in the world and they expect it to be presented as such. It is impossible to get excited about a game that ended 10 minutes ago, when you've just had the fact rubbed in your face by the casting team. It is possible, if you are a skilled play-by-play caster, to keep the tension up, particularly when there are more casual, less knowledgeable viewers watching. You do not have to lie to them, but you don't have to tell them it's done 10 minutes before the GG either. By all means, have the analyst explain why Player A is in such a bad situation and the decisions that lead him up to this point (although I really think some of that should be saved for post-game commentary, a'la sports), but as far as I'm concerned, calling an early GG is a mortal casting sin and should be avoided at all costs.

Just my two pence folks. It's a nice opinion piece but it lacks perspective on what casting actually is, as well as being from an obviously niche viewpoint which, while it should be catered to without question, is not the only way to look at things, nor even the majority view.


Here is a snip of TB's comment.
PLEASE READ THE FULL ARTICLE BEFORE JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. JUST SAYING THAT "LOL TB SAYS IDRA IS A BAD CASTER LOL WILL MAKE YOU LOOK STUPID.
Link here

Edit: I failed on this thread, I realize now that my issue is that it's not a TB vs IdrA thing, it's more of a "how should SC2 be cast" type of argument that I really have root with. Casual vs hardcore, action vs strategy type of thing. I just wanted to apologize, because I was wrong.
I stand by my point that TB is wrong, but not because IdrA is a good caster, but because I feel like his style is correct for SC2.
Silent12ill
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States358 Posts
May 13 2011 07:08 GMT
#2
Its weird how I read this in his voice... it quite an interesting take he has on idra though considering I felt nothing wrong with idra's commentary.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:10:50
May 13 2011 07:10 GMT
#3
Not really a big deal, Idra doesnt have as much casting experience and people dont bring him on to be loud and boisterous. Idra has all the qualities TB doesnt in terms of insight.
Hazuc
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada471 Posts
May 13 2011 07:10 GMT
#4
IdrA is probably one of my favorite caster, there's nothing wrong with him. He knows the game better than any other caster.
C.W.
Profile Joined August 2010
88 Posts
May 13 2011 07:11 GMT
#5
Who is totalbiscuit?
t(','t)
Atlare
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia893 Posts
May 13 2011 07:11 GMT
#6
Well with a misleading title and one line description of how you feel I recommend you actually think about what Totalbiscuit said.

IdrA is a colour-commentator. He fits all the criteria, he is analytical, he is there to provide background and extensive game knowledge, based on experience as a current/ex-player. He is there to fill in time when the play-by-play commentator is not talking and as a knowledgeable resource to back up the play-by-play commentator, who is more often than not, not a professional player/coach/ex-player, but a professional broadcaster.


Thats not slamming IdrA, thats comparing IdrA to a category in which he is already put in but the vocal minority doesn't really understand the different between Colour and Play by play and the values/advantages of each.

I think anybody trying to say IdrA is an amazing Play by Play poster is a fan boy and probably below average in the intelligence department and Totalbiscuit for Colour commentary is similar (ie. you shouldn't arguing that he can anaylse as effectively as say Day[9] or IdrA).

This isn't IdrA hate its Totalbiscuit trying to debunk the stupid fanboyism that's been shown by trolling him constantly.
Considering learning BW
nvs.
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada3609 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:25:05
May 13 2011 07:12 GMT
#7
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:12:37
May 13 2011 07:12 GMT
#8
For the casual Idra probably isn't a good caster too, to any player playing competitively or something he is amazing. His knowledge is just fantastic and that is why I love when he speaks. He knows what he's talking about unlike most commentators and its very refreshing honestly. Wish there were more casters like him ^_^.
When I think of something else, something will go here
vileChAnCe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada525 Posts
May 13 2011 07:12 GMT
#9
I don't really want to jump on the flame wagon of biscuit yet but that guy seems to like to draw alot of negative attention his way. I would listen to a replay casted by IdrA a hundred times over before having to listen to biscuit even once. That guy doesn't know what the fuck hes talking about, and at the end of the day that's all that matters to me.
Day[9] i've broken 6 mice, 5 keyboards, 3 pairs of headphones, and a mousepad, all from raging after starcraft losing streaks
Swineflew
Profile Joined October 2010
United States61 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:15:17
May 13 2011 07:12 GMT
#10
I guess this just rubbed me the wrong way, and I don't understand how a guy that got his fanbase from casting WoW videos is going to bash someone who has been part of the starcraft scene since before he uploaded his first youtube video.

Let me just say that I was a fan of TB before he made this leap to SC2, that's how I stumbled on this article. I just don't like his SC2 casting, and find it stupid that he call out a legit caster/player. I was simply curious if I was the only one feeling this way.
LITTLEHEAD
Profile Joined September 2010
United States79 Posts
May 13 2011 07:12 GMT
#11
if you're referencing wikipedia for your points, idk how much you should take from what he says
Ksi
Profile Joined May 2010
357 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:18:57
May 13 2011 07:13 GMT
#12
I don't know about you guys, but Idra's snide comments are a huge part of why I watch his casting (that and his knowledge, of course). You can pick apart his casting as much as you want, but at the end of the day, Idra's persona, his knowledge, and the fact that he just calls a situation as he sees it without any sugar coating or beating around the bush is part of his appeal to a segment of viewers. Will Idra's casting bring in a wider crowd? probably not, but he's not a full time caster, he's just a player doing some casting on the side.

As for Totalbiscut:

[image loading]

Better get your flamesuit on, Totalbiscut. Considering how much TB is hated by this community, this will not end well.
Itzli
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2 Posts
May 13 2011 07:13 GMT
#13
TB wasn't really bashing Idra, he was more on the line of saying he is not a good caster but is more of a colour-commentator which is kind of different from a caster. Idra does the analytical stuff while a caster is more of a play by play kind of thing. There 2 different kinds of casting.
_Darwin_
Profile Joined August 2010
United States2374 Posts
May 13 2011 07:13 GMT
#14
IdrA isn't a caster. And I PREFER the "yeah it's gg" as opposed to "NOW I WONDER IF THE 7 SCV TERRAN CAN REPRODUCE FAST ENOUGH TO TAKE ON THE 200/200 TOSS."
I cant stop lactating
Zeroes
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
May 13 2011 07:14 GMT
#15
TB is a great caster for entertainment purposes as a casual player I would love to listen to him however as a competitive player I want to listen to idra cast games so I can learn how to get better.
Check out my SC Lan pics Here: http://picasaweb.google.com/bunk.habit
evilduky666
Profile Joined February 2010
United States101 Posts
May 13 2011 07:14 GMT
#16
haters can hate.. <3 idra
zerglingsfolife
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1694 Posts
May 13 2011 07:14 GMT
#17
Thread title is misleading -_-
Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crown and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
May 13 2011 07:14 GMT
#18
I like both guys for different reasons.
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
Exarl25
Profile Joined November 2010
1887 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-13 07:18:39
May 13 2011 07:14 GMT
#19
What the hell? Could this thread title be any more misleading?

I hope to hell that TB sees this before it gets locked, I have little doubt that will he waste no time in setting the record straight in an extremely entertaining fashion.

Edit: Even more surprising is the number of people who are responding without reading. Is that banworthy?
Atlare
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia893 Posts
May 13 2011 07:15 GMT
#20
On May 13 2011 16:13 Itzli wrote:
TB wasn't really bashing Idra, he was more on the line of saying he is not a good caster but is more of a colour-commentator which is kind of different from a caster. Idra does the analytical stuff while a caster is more of a play by play kind of thing. There 2 different kinds of casting.

Thank god somebody else in this thread who can read and not automatically assume TB is being an ass.
Considering learning BW
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