• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:49
CET 23:49
KST 07:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Foreign Brood War Data analysis on 70 million replays BW General Discussion MBCGame Torrents
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1920 users

VOD Analysis: Midas Perfectman TvP Build Order

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
Miwyfe
Profile Joined September 2010
England101 Posts
April 12 2011 03:02 GMT
#1
(T)Midas (Terran at 7) vs (P)PerfectMan (Protoss at 1) on Circuit Breakers December 2010

Link to game on youtube

http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/50431_Midas_vs_PerfectMan

This game is exciting because the Terran build begins to marry the rax expand with the mine expand. Its a short game and we get to see how the build fairs against range->dt timings. Midas makes a huge mistake and has to claw back with excellent micro and multitasking. But interestingly, despite these mistakes he is able to close the game very quickly with a result in his favour. Perhaps this gives an insight to the potential of the build.

In a nutshell: rax expand, 2 facs, academy, while making 5 tanks then mines and speed upgrades.

In detail:

+ Show Spoiler +
depot
rax
cc
depot
gas
bunker
factory
factory
depot
academy
2nd gas
depot
depot
ebay
(dt attack hits here)
armoury
cc
3rd and 4th factory


Meanwhile Perfectman goes 1 gate range, 2nd gate, citadel, archives, 2dts after 5 goons (no zealot). Perfectman buys his natural nexus after the dts, then 3rd gate, then 3rd nexus before robo, obs.

Some important timings to note:
5.33 Scanners start
5.43 Two dts on the field
5.58 Scanners finished (only 1 tank and the bunker at this point)
6.11 Scans by mistake (wastes it in his natural) and loses his 5th rine to the goons (4 in the bunker already)
6.14 Three tanks at the bottom of the ramp
6.21 Ebay starts (before the dt was revealed by a fraction of a second)
6.22 Two dts arrive at the bunker (5 goons already there vs 3 tanks, bunker, ''2 scans'')

As you may have noticed, Midas mistakenly scans prematurely, or atleast he says so in the winners interview. Im not sure if he was always going to build the ebay at that timing or not, it may have been as a response to the mistake. He may have originally intended to rely on scans and mines.

Predictably, the game becomes 'messy' because of this mistake so I am wary of analysing too much after this point. Midas proceeds to lose his 3 tanks, his bunker and rines, and a scanner gets sniped by dt reinforcements. Neither player showcases their full potential in this game.
Midas actually says he thought P went 2 base arbs due to low goon count in the interview aswell. Either way, his siegemode timed counter offensive was wildly successful and P concedes. I really dont think Perfectman should have let Midas get away with this contain but it was all slightly scrappy. As Ive said, Im less concerned with this section of the game. What is exciting is the opener.

Threat.

A protoss user has many powerful timings that a Terran user must prepare for if he wants to be truly skillful. A Protoss player must also take into consideration all the attack timings that a Terran can execute against him at any given time. This is what threat means. It is this concept that shapes build orders.

To illustrate simply, consider Perfectmans decision to skip a zealot. This is a fairly huge risk because you have to play like the Terran is proximity 2 raxing until proven otherwise to be truly safe. The zealot is crucial to defend against this timing attack. However, his probe scout saw the cc at cross position on its second destination. He may have canceled the zealot upon seeing this as the threat has gone (not sure of timing if this is possible).

Applying this concept of threat to the game above is what is so interesting. Midas has to prepare for bulldogs, dts, and reavers as some of the biggest mid tech threats.
Every Terran has chosen to get siegemode first to deter goon pressure after rax expand in televised games. Siege mode is great, it is very powerful and cost effective for defense. However, therein lies its weakness. If a protoss knows siege mode has been upgraded, they also know that there is no threat of speed vults or mines. Equally, several tanks with siege mode are essentially useless on offence unsupported at this timing so they cant threaten anything. All they do is buy time.

This knowledge has allowed Protoss to develop a reaver double expand build. They know they can delay observers because there are no mines. They know they can have a lower goon count because the vult runby threat is non existant, when coupled with simcity. The only threat T poses is a rine tank composition which the reaver counters nicely, whilst still providing scouting and threat to the T also. The shuttle means T is forced to divide his forces to protect the main minlines rather than just his front door.

Midas' build here is powerful because he skips the siege mode upgrade in favour of mines and speed, The reason this is much more powerful is because it forces the Protoss to invest in 'passive' tech (observers) and army size earlier, rather than economy, infrastructure and upgrades. This is exactly how you will pull ahead as the game goes on. Its all about relative timings.

What Midas must contemplate is whether or not this build is cheese.

Basically, is he laying himself open to an early timing attack that will guaranteed cripple him, in return for a timing attack that will guaranteed cripple Perfectman a couple of minutes later. (Passive cheese)

1.Is he safe from a bulldog? He will have 5 tanks, 5 rines, scvs, a bunker and 6 mines plus 2 vultures every round of production by the time it hits, so probably yes.

2. Safe from dts? He will have 1 tank, 4 rines, scvs, a bunker and 2 scans with two more tanks building, so probably yes.

3. dt drop? He will have 5 tanks, 5 rines and bunker, 2-4 scans, and speed vults with mines building, so probably yes.

4. Is he safe from a reaver? He will have 5 tanks, 5 rines and bunker, speed vults and mines shortly, so probably yes.

5. Is he safe from a goon/speedzeal mass frontal bust? He will have 5 tanks, bunker, scvs, so probably yes.

Do I think this is a very thin tight rope, yes definately.
Do I think a non pro should try it, definately yes. You will be taking a pretty huge risk but it will be fun.
Do I think that even a pro Terran will have mining disrupted and may be having problems should the Protoss do any of these early attacks, yes but the risk may outweigh the reward. The protoss will have to micro like crazy too, Perfectman himself possibly built up excess resources during the attack, as we see him place his 3rd gateway at the natural before 3rd nexus?

What you must remember is, a timing attack also takes time to do the damage. Bear that in mind. A dt arriving at Midas' front door is not the end of the world, because they take time to actually inflict damage. If Protoss has had to cut lots of probes to make the timing, and T has meanwhile built many scvs, losing a few is not going to offset the balance enough to swing the advantage.
Midas takes several precautions to help minimize the threats Perfectman can impose. The first is very simple but absolutely critical. He does not float his barracks.
This allows more scvs to surround the bunker. He is not relying on siege mode so runbys to snipe the tank are slightly less dangerous because he knows he can micro his tanks back up the ramp and out of fire if Perfectman were to play very aggressively.

Also, Midas positioned the initial 3 tanks to block the ramp, lessening the threat of dts because this way they are forced to remain in a controlled space in range of the bunker. Therefore when he scans, he can kill the dt with certainty. 1 dt with the first scan, and 1 dt with the second scan. These details make the build far more viable due to the fact that Perfectmans 2nd round of dts take a period of time to build and travel to the Terran base, allowing Midas to place a turret. Unfortunately, Midas scans early by mistake in this game but he manages to keep his economy in great shape with excellent micro and still take the win. I think if it became apparent that the Protoss had not got dts (or chooses to delay attacking with them to confuse the Terran) then Midas could even cancel the ebay, rely on mines and scans and actually start his cc a little earlier. This is what I would like to see in a future game and observe how powerful the subsequent 8 fac timing attack (or similar) would be after this opener, preferably against a more standard Protoss opening too.

Finally, the threat a reaver poses to rax expand builds seems relatively low, with simcities, tank micro and repairing tanks after 1 hit is all taken into account. The build gives Terran enough tanks to feel secure against the reaver and zeals without the need for turrets I believe. The weakness here is that without siegemode, the goons are capable of being dangerous at the front while the tanks are occupied with the reaver. Scvs repairing and a couple blocking has the potential to be strong enough though I reckon until mines are ready and then if placed well, the goons would have to back off.

(does anyone have the game between ForGG vs Flying on Fortress, rax expand 2 fac vs proximity gates and reaver, the game is missing due to jon747 I think. I would love to check the timings and compare these two games I remember thinking ForGG must be in deep trouble but he pulled scvs and surrounded the goons beautifully. I think he got siegemode and ebay rather than academy.)
gongryong
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Korea (South)1430 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-12 05:13:27
April 12 2011 03:57 GMT
#2
Hi OP,

I just finished reading your post.
Really good stuff. But it really needs pictures.
Pity a good read like this doesn't get mileage
because of lack of accompanying pictures as reference
to your great analysis. You think you can do that?
Thanks
JAEDONG ÜBERBONJWA!
sour_eraser
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada932 Posts
April 12 2011 04:36 GMT
#3
i see you worked very hard to write this... But IN MY OPINION not many people will read this essay without any pics, anyway that's just my thoughts when i first saw this
"What's the f*cking point of censoring a letter if everyone and their mother knows what it stands for.... F*cking morons"
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
April 12 2011 05:13 GMT
#4
I think it was a pretty well done analysis, but I have to agree the post itself would be more appealing and easier to work through with some pictures.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Black[CAT]
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Malaysia2589 Posts
April 12 2011 05:21 GMT
#5
Really good analysis I watched the game live, but i didnt give thought on his strat...
Im considering trying out this strategy.. You dont need pics to understand his analysis, just go watch the game.
You mean ESPORTS isnt a synonym for SC2? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ -Proud owner of a Filco Majestouch 2 with Cherry Blue Switches- BW or SC2? Why not both?
419
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Russian Federation3631 Posts
April 12 2011 06:07 GMT
#6
Good stuff. I enjoyed the analysis.
?
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7923 Posts
April 12 2011 07:43 GMT
#7
Picture would make it a great thread. At the moment it's too much of a text wall. Great read though, so it really worths the effort to make it very good.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
Miwyfe
Profile Joined September 2010
England101 Posts
April 25 2011 12:05 GMT
#8
Im not going to add pictures sorry guys. I dont have the time or means. Does anyone have any strategical thoughts though. My opinion on the strat currently is that it is very very risky against heavy 2 gate aggression with reaver tech or similar.
Ryshi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Canada361 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 13:09:41
April 25 2011 13:09 GMT
#9
Although I didn't read the whole analysis thoroughly yet, I skimmed through it and it seems like an excellent analysis. I like how you try to outline all possible conditions and also grateful for listing the build.

I did not watch the game, but based on the timings you given of the P's build, was the T's scv able to scout the P main? Otherwise, what if P did citadel right after core is complete rather than a range and another gate? Considering it is already so tight rope the T's build may differ. Forgive me if you already answered this or have it as one of those question, it's just something I wondered about as I read the beginning.

Although pics would definitely be helpful to get your point across (eg. to explain the blocking), I don't feel it was needed. This is an analysis/discussion on strategy rather than a battle report for aesthetic means.
The World God Only Knows
IceCube
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Croatia1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 14:00:03
April 25 2011 13:59 GMT
#10
I really like your analysis and the fact there is no pics in it is more appealing to me actually. It's greatly written and well formatted so I don't think it actually needs pictures in it to make it complete. But hey, that's only me

Great stuff
Forever Vulture.. :(
YejinYejin
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1053 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-25 19:20:36
April 25 2011 18:31 GMT
#11
How do you survive without siege? If I rax expand, I only feel safe when siege is up, because that's when I get rid of the goons attacking my bunker. If they go 2 gate goon range Nexus, How do you get rid of the 6 dragoons attacking your bunker, ready to run in and snipe your first tank? And won't it be really hard to be active with our vultures? You'll need a dropship to ferry them out, because the goons are just sitting outside your nat on hold position. Haven't watched the VOD yet, but I imagine this would be a problem.

EDIT: Watched the video. I still feel like Perfectman played that wrong.
I don't remember who it was, but the game was a PvT on Fortress, and as the first tank came out, the Protoss ran his goons up, hit the tank once, ran past the bunker into the Terran's natural, and killed the tank with the next volley. I wonder what would have happened if Perfectman was that aggressive with his goons, but went Nexus instead of DT.
안지호
lyAsakura
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1414 Posts
April 25 2011 23:09 GMT
#12
On April 26 2011 03:31 DTK-m2 wrote:
How do you survive without siege? If I rax expand, I only feel safe when siege is up, because that's when I get rid of the goons attacking my bunker. If they go 2 gate goon range Nexus, How do you get rid of the 6 dragoons attacking your bunker, ready to run in and snipe your first tank? And won't it be really hard to be active with our vultures? You'll need a dropship to ferry them out, because the goons are just sitting outside your nat on hold position. Haven't watched the VOD yet, but I imagine this would be a problem.

EDIT: Watched the video. I still feel like Perfectman played that wrong.
I don't remember who it was, but the game was a PvT on Fortress, and as the first tank came out, the Protoss ran his goons up, hit the tank once, ran past the bunker into the Terran's natural, and killed the tank with the next volley. I wonder what would have happened if Perfectman was that aggressive with his goons, but went Nexus instead of DT.


It was stork vs hiya and most terrans pull back their tank after the first shot nowadays so the tank doesn't get sniped and the bunker would be enough to kill or put in red one goon so most tosses don't try to snipe the tank.
WeMade FOX would be a deadly SC2 team.
eton7410
Profile Joined December 2009
Canada261 Posts
April 26 2011 00:51 GMT
#13
yaya!
Live English Caster of Korean BW Scene
Taekwon
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8155 Posts
April 26 2011 01:02 GMT
#14
I laughed at the end of the game.
Though I love PM's frequent DT use
▲ ▲ ▲
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2295 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-26 06:40:06
April 26 2011 06:39 GMT
#15
good analisis and really entretaining game indeed, i wasnt going to watch it + Show Spoiler +
you know... (P)PerfectMan..
but now i realise im missing a lot of great games...
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
22:00
Masters Cup #150: Playoffs
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
davetesta55
Liquipedia
BSL 21
20:00
RO16: Group A
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
ZZZero.O338
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Liquid`TLO 519
White-Ra 230
PiGStarcraft210
Nathanias 94
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 573
ZZZero.O 338
Dewaltoss 92
NaDa 15
Dota 2
Fuzer 801
League of Legends
C9.Mang0237
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King106
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor239
Other Games
tarik_tv8196
Grubby7110
fl0m1817
XaKoH 97
Livibee51
shahzam1
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1137
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 38
• Reevou 14
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 7
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler86
Other Games
• imaqtpie1885
• Shiphtur205
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 11m
WardiTV 2025
13h 11m
OSC
16h 11m
IPSL
18h 11m
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
21h 11m
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Wardi Open
1d 13h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 17h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
2 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Sziky vs JDConan
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-12-04
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
Light HT
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.