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Bracketting in TvP

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GaryBrackett
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria106 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 16:08:24
April 06 2011 12:22 GMT
#1
Introduction

Hi GaryBrackett here and i would like to share with my fellow TLers the secret to Bracketting in the TvP matchup.

Summary

The idea of this build is to combat any form of Gateway or Fast Expand build used by the Protoss using heavy bio play with SCV's. Smaller maps or rush distances make Bracketting more effective. Bracketting is not a tactic that one employs from the start rather it is something that you decide to use based on intel from your scouts.

Initial Build

10 Depot
12 Rax
(Marine then Tech Lab)
(Marauder + Concussive Shells)
13 Gas
15 Rax

Follow Up
On scouting the Protoss base and noticing a Fast Expand you should add an Expansion of your own and encourage the Protoss to scout this. Stim should be researched as soon as possible as well as the construction of additional Barracks should be considered. 1 Vespene Geyser should be sufficient.

General Tactic

The heavy bio army you are building of Marines and Marauders should be used to poke and antagonize the weary Protoss beast. After your second Orbital is complete pull 90% of your SCV's and assault the Protoss base. Be very careful in the engagement you take. Sentry's can spell the death of Bracketting if used appropriately. Keep alot of pressure on and don't overstim. The MM ball with SCV protection should be easily able to take out the Protoss Expansion and Gateway Army with appropriate micro. MULES can be used back home to guarantee a flow of Bio to reinforce your weary boys. Once you have taken out the Protoss expansion and forced a contain you can either poke up the ramp or start production of SCV's again and transition. (The latter is advised) Bracketting will have allowed you to have a substantial lead over the Protoss

Notes

Bracketting will only work on maps where the Natural is open (Metalopolis) and not on maps where the Natural has little access (Shakuras Plateau)
Knowing when to Stim is key for Bracketting.
The idea of the push is to hit before Colossi or Forge Upgrades start to come into effect.

Micro

Marines at the back with Marauders in front.
Try to stim only a few units at a time and preferably the units at the back.
Spread out the units so as to reduce the effectiveness of forcefields and zealots (will be slowed)
Use the SCV carefully, more as a kinda shield and overwhelming factor, setting them on the stalkers/sentries.
SCV's can also be used to put up a Bunker

Tactic dedicated to MouzStrelok 'The Warship'

Liquid_Brackett
Synystyr
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1446 Posts
April 06 2011 12:34 GMT
#2
How is this different from any other Concussive Shell rush? It's always been known that this is a solid opener to play against a 1 Gate FE or anything faster. Also, the Concussive Shell upgrade starts before you even have a chance to scout an expansion, so you are going in blind unless you scouted a 15 Nexus. This loses

How is this original and justifies having your name used to classify this opener? Where are your replays to support your build?
Sky Terran TvP V2.0: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355839
Yans
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom12 Posts
April 06 2011 12:38 GMT
#3
Seems plausible. I'm gonna try this in my next ladder game thx a lot mate, needed a new tvp build.

Regards, Yans.
ThorZaIN | Tyler | Ret
GaryBrackett
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria106 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 12:43:05
April 06 2011 12:40 GMT
#4
Concussive Shell is 50/50 and may be cancelled if you so wish. I see no problem with starting the upgrade blind.
The difference between the Openings is that this employs SCV's to guarantee the destruction of the expansion and the mind games of the expansion should butter up the Protoss for the hot knife (your bio units). The 2 orbitals should allow you to excel after the Expansions death.

Liquid_Brackett
stilez
Profile Joined November 2010
Mexico130 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 12:50:44
April 06 2011 12:48 GMT
#5
I prefer to Bukkake in TvP.
What are your thoughts on this?

Sincerely

Liquid_Faggett

User was temp banned for this post.
statikg
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada930 Posts
April 06 2011 12:59 GMT
#6
I can see this working effectively with good hold micro on the scvs, I am skeptical of whether it would actually result in an even trade, if they also use hold micro on their zealots you could easily lose all your scvs in return for some of their units and a nexus, I'm not sure that you could catch up.
loklok
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany161 Posts
April 06 2011 13:08 GMT
#7
This won't work against 3 gate sentry/zeal/stalker expands, robo openings (obs), stargate openings, 2 gate stalker heavy openings. Tested high-mid master.

3 Gate expand: Ends up with ~ 6 Sentries ~ 4 Zeals ~ 3 Stalker. Depends on attack timing it can be more. With 12 forcefields i can hold even on wide open naturals and some probes will help if i made mistakes at planting FFs.

Robo: 1 Gate 1 Robo 1 Gate. Observer will scout your one base play -> colossus tech on 1 base and its over.

Stargate: You can't really leave your base alone and P has full scouting information and knows when you want to attack (Nexus cancel or stay 1 base)

2 Gate stalker : full map control with 6 stalker, good pressure and kiting options. Will be probably bit complicated with FFs because P will have less sentries compared to 3 gate expand but stalker heavy -> ffs are more effective because you can split scvs and some MM from the rest without receiving high dmg (stalker heavy instead zeal heavy, range vs melee).

I think it's difficult to cursh P if the micro is at the same level
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
April 06 2011 13:14 GMT
#8
Just 2 rax before orbital. The pull SCVs. Its faster and thus more effective rush.

Marines > Zeals
SCVs > Stalkers

By the time your attack comes he has a sentry and thus you lose.
+ Show Spoiler +
Lol at people that keep naming stuff after themselves.The best is when they name unit rush builds after themselves. Unless its completly game changing you don't really get that privalage imo. Bisu Build,Manoring Workers. Heck even note that the Flash Build is more commonly called the Double Armory.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
GaryBrackett
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria106 Posts
April 06 2011 13:17 GMT
#9
On April 06 2011 22:08 loklok wrote:
This won't work against 3 gate sentry/zeal/stalker expands, robo openings (obs), stargate openings, 2 gate stalker heavy openings. Tested high-mid master.

3 Gate expand: Ends up with ~ 6 Sentries ~ 4 Zeals ~ 3 Stalker. Depends on attack timing it can be more. With 12 forcefields i can hold even on wide open naturals and some probes will help if i made mistakes at planting FFs.

Robo: 1 Gate 1 Robo 1 Gate. Observer will scout your one base play -> colossus tech on 1 base and its over.

Stargate: You can't really leave your base alone and P has full scouting information and knows when you want to attack (Nexus cancel or stay 1 base)

2 Gate stalker : full map control with 6 stalker, good pressure and kiting options. Will be probably bit complicated with FFs because P will have less sentries compared to 3 gate expand but stalker heavy -> ffs are more effective because you can split scvs and some MM from the rest without receiving high dmg (stalker heavy instead zeal heavy, range vs melee).

I think it's difficult to cursh P if the micro is at the same level


Idea is this build is only used against very early expansions.
Phisk
Profile Joined June 2010
166 Posts
April 06 2011 13:17 GMT
#10
On April 06 2011 21:40 GaryBrackett wrote:
The difference between the Openings is that this employs SCV's to guarantee the destruction of the expansion and the mind games of the expansion should butter up the Protoss for the hot knife (your bio units). The 2 orbitals should allow you to excel after the Expansions death.


Well MM+SCV all-ins have been around forever, can't really see how this is very different from already acknowledged strats.

You definitely need to include some replays as well, otherwise it's hard to legitimize a strat.
GaryBrackett
Profile Joined December 2010
Bulgaria106 Posts
April 06 2011 13:17 GMT
#11
On April 06 2011 22:14 GinDo wrote:
Just 2 rax before orbital. The pull SCVs. Its faster and thus more effective rush.

Marines > Zeals
SCVs > Stalkers

By the time your attack comes he has a sentry and thus you lose.
+ Show Spoiler +
Lol at people that keep naming stuff after themselves.The best is when they name unit rush builds after themselves. Unless its completly game changing you don't really get that privalage imo. Bisu Build,Manoring Workers. Heck even note that the Flash Build is more commonly called the Double Armory.

This isn't designed to kill the Main if you read the article, its designed to destroy the expansion and put the Protoss behind.
moridincuh
Profile Joined April 2011
3 Posts
April 06 2011 13:18 GMT
#12
Sincerely
Liquid_Faggett


I lol'ed irl

User was warned for this post
loklok
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany161 Posts
April 06 2011 13:25 GMT
#13
On April 06 2011 22:17 GaryBrackett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2011 22:08 loklok wrote:
This won't work against 3 gate sentry/zeal/stalker expands, robo openings (obs), stargate openings, 2 gate stalker heavy openings. Tested high-mid master.

3 Gate expand: Ends up with ~ 6 Sentries ~ 4 Zeals ~ 3 Stalker. Depends on attack timing it can be more. With 12 forcefields i can hold even on wide open naturals and some probes will help if i made mistakes at planting FFs.

Robo: 1 Gate 1 Robo 1 Gate. Observer will scout your one base play -> colossus tech on 1 base and its over.

Stargate: You can't really leave your base alone and P has full scouting information and knows when you want to attack (Nexus cancel or stay 1 base)

2 Gate stalker : full map control with 6 stalker, good pressure and kiting options. Will be probably bit complicated with FFs because P will have less sentries compared to 3 gate expand but stalker heavy -> ffs are more effective because you can split scvs and some MM from the rest without receiving high dmg (stalker heavy instead zeal heavy, range vs melee).

I think it's difficult to cursh P if the micro is at the same level


Idea is this build is only used against very early expansions.


First Nexus or Gateway Nexus in PvT is very risky and can be punished without pulling SVCs. Probably on tournament level where the player know eachother will play such risky style. But even then, the timing will be a bit late. Nobody drones hard on 2 base if he doesn't know what his oponent want to do. So the P would invest 400 minerals and go back to gateway heavy style. The 400 minerals advantage won't be a big deal because T has to travel and that is mining time.
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 13:50:50
April 06 2011 13:44 GMT
#14
On April 06 2011 22:17 GaryBrackett wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 06 2011 22:14 GinDo wrote:
Just 2 rax before orbital. The pull SCVs. Its faster and thus more effective rush.

Marines > Zeals
SCVs > Stalkers

By the time your attack comes he has a sentry and thus you lose.
+ Show Spoiler +
Lol at people that keep naming stuff after themselves.The best is when they name unit rush builds after themselves. Unless its completly game changing you don't really get that privalage imo. Bisu Build,Manoring Workers. Heck even note that the Flash Build is more commonly called the Double Armory.

This isn't designed to kill the Main if you read the article, its designed to destroy the expansion and put the Protoss behind.


Pulling SCVs to punish an expo is stupid. He loses 400mins. You lose over 400mins in mining time.

And if MC vs MKP on Metal taught us anything+ Show Spoiler +
Toss can Nexus 1st lose an Expo and still effectivly 4 gate
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
SoftSoap
Profile Joined November 2010
United States170 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 13:48:12
April 06 2011 13:46 GMT
#15
Seems like a BITBYBITPRIME!!!@#!@#@#!@#. Jk lolz

Anyways, can you please post replays? It would help more a more in depth analysis. For my points of view right now, it seems your depending on a early expansion. As scouting isn't to informational unless you see two gases. Protoss don't reveal their tech until they kill the scouting scv. So a 1 basing protoss would forcefield the ramp a number of times and significantly delay your "Bracketing"

Tasteless, "IdrA always pulls out on time."
Vlare
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
748 Posts
April 06 2011 13:52 GMT
#16
On April 06 2011 21:48 stilez wrote:
I prefer to Bukkake in TvP.
What are your thoughts on this?

Sincerely

Liquid_Faggett

User was temp banned for this post.


This is one of the funnier things I've read on these forums in a while. Hahaha.

Ontopic : Sounds like you're doing an all in and then stopping it. 90% of the time the protoss will leave if you kill his fe, so I don't really comprehend what you're trying to do with this build. It's more of an all in than anything and is taking advantage of the broken mechanic that is mules :\

I don't see this being at all viable at higher levels of play.
Mass zerglings doesnt fail
Nakki
Profile Joined April 2011
4 Posts
April 06 2011 14:05 GMT
#17
Tried this in plat league, got matched up against a mid-diamond protoss and it worked wonders. He rage quit.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
April 06 2011 14:07 GMT
#18
So you're basically teaching people how to beat bad protosses that try to fast expand?

I don't know why you need a guide to the tactic of pulling all your scvs after a standard opening.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
GinDo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
3327 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 14:11:47
April 06 2011 14:11 GMT
#19
On April 06 2011 23:05 Nakki wrote:
Tried this in plat league, got matched up against a mid-diamond protoss and it worked wonders. He rage quit.


Heres the problem. People symply try these tactics that simply aren't viable, play against some noob players and the make theads on it. Any competent Toss will defend this, and if they can't becaseu they went robo rather then more gates will sack their Nexus and simply FF their ramp. Effectivly puting themselves behind 400 minerals and you +400minerals in lost mining time and Tech. Not to mention the probable risk that you will lose alot of workers.
ⱩŦ ƑⱠẬ$Ħ / ƩǤ ɈƩẬƉØƝǤ [ɌȻ] / ȊṂ.ṂṼⱣ / ẬȻƩɌ.ȊƝƝØṼẬŦȊØƝ / ẬȻƩɌ.ϟȻẬɌⱠƩŦŦ ϟⱠẬɎƩɌϟ ȻⱠẬƝ
Scrubington
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada475 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-06 14:23:10
April 06 2011 14:11 GMT
#20
On April 06 2011 23:07 Pokebunny wrote:
So you're basically teaching people how to beat bad protosses that try to fast expand?

I don't know why you need a guide to the tactic of pulling all your scvs after a standard opening.


Exactly, if platinum-diamond players that lack the micro in order to pull off a one gate fast expand decide to one gate fast expand, chances are you've already won the game without "pulling 90% of your workers".

EDIT: You say in the OP not to do this on easy to expand maps like Shakuras Plateau... But then you say this build is designed to counter fast expand builds. Isn't that just a little bit contradictory?
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