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On April 06 2011 23:07 Pokebunny wrote:
So you're basically teaching people how to beat bad protosses that try to fast expand?
I don't know why you need a guide to the tactic of pulling all your scvs after a standard opening.
[sarcasm] Its because he gets a rax before Orbital. Thats what makes it gamebreaking and a reason he should name something after himself. [/sarcasm]
Wasn't there supposed to be some form of purging of bad threads in the Strategy section?
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Woah, thanks for inventing this completely new and original strategy. I believe that this strategy will revolutionize sc2.
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I think Thor rush is better for punishing fast toss expos in TvP if positions are fairly close.
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Yea, I agree, Thor rush would be more effective in my opinion too since they crush force fields.
(Edit: I'm a high diamond protoss player.)
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On April 06 2011 22:52 Vlare wrote:
Ontopic : Sounds like you're doing an all in and then stopping it. 90% of the time the protoss will leave if you kill his fe, so I don't really comprehend what you're trying to do with this build. It's more of an all in than anything and is taking advantage of the broken mechanic that is mules :\
I don't see this being at all viable at higher levels of play.
Mules are there to counter Cb and larva, also mules have to share the place of scans while protoss have flying maphacks , and actually toss are the strongest race with most win % so i dont see how you mix that together
Ontopic
IF a toss fe and you bring scv , the protoss player can just sac hes expo and kill of scv's , and your behind also this is like any rush really a marine scv all in works just as good
and if your in in close spawns and toss fe , try going marine tank instead , that even works pretty well vs even a 3 gate robo expo or anything with a later expo unless a stargate opening , if you know what your doing
look at the dreamhack finales , naama vs mana
/ by a 2 k games terran
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On April 06 2011 23:11 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:05 Nakki wrote:
Tried this in plat league, got matched up against a mid-diamond protoss and it worked wonders. He rage quit. Heres the problem. People symply try these tactics that simply aren't viable, play against some noob players and the make theads on it. Any competent Toss will defend this, and if they can't becaseu they went robo rather then more gates will sack their Nexus and simply FF their ramp. Effectivly puting themselves behind 400 minerals and you +400minerals in lost mining time and Tech. Not to mention the probable risk that you will lose alot of workers.
Done by a pro:
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/154546-1v1-terran-protoss-backwater-gulch
If SeleCT does it, then that is viable enough for me.
But honestly I am not planning to do it myself before getting to SeleCTs level 
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Touché breadfan. Its funny how people automatically berate the OP even though a progamer has added bracketting to his arsenal of strategems. They should learn from their peers
Regards, Yans
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On April 06 2011 23:11 Scrubington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:07 Pokebunny wrote:
So you're basically teaching people how to beat bad protosses that try to fast expand?
I don't know why you need a guide to the tactic of pulling all your scvs after a standard opening. You say in the OP not to do this on easy to expand maps like Shakuras Plateau... But then you say this build is designed to counter fast expand builds. Isn't that just a little bit contradictory?
The reason we're "Berating" the original poster is because he contradicts himself in the original post.
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So basically this is a  SeleCT 2 rax expand but with an SCV all-in?
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On April 06 2011 23:47 Scrubington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:11 Scrubington wrote:On April 06 2011 23:07 Pokebunny wrote:
So you're basically teaching people how to beat bad protosses that try to fast expand?
I don't know why you need a guide to the tactic of pulling all your scvs after a standard opening. You say in the OP not to do this on easy to expand maps like Shakuras Plateau... But then you say this build is designed to counter fast expand builds. Isn't that just a little bit contradictory? The reason we're "Berating" the original poster is because he contradicts himself in the original post.
I suggest you read the OP again
Regards, Yans
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On April 06 2011 23:47 Scrubington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:11 Scrubington wrote:On April 06 2011 23:07 Pokebunny wrote:
So you're basically teaching people how to beat bad protosses that try to fast expand?
I don't know why you need a guide to the tactic of pulling all your scvs after a standard opening. You say in the OP not to do this on easy to expand maps like Shakuras Plateau... But then you say this build is designed to counter fast expand builds. Isn't that just a little bit contradictory? The reason we're "Berating" the original poster is because he contradicts himself in the original post.
Nowhere in the post did i contradict myself.
I said it's designed to counter Fast Expand builds on certain maps.
Liquid_Brackett 
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On April 06 2011 21:22 GaryBrackett wrote:Bracketting will only work on maps where the Natural is open (Metalopolis) and not on maps where the Natural has little access (Shakuras Plateau) The idea of this build is to combat any form of Gateway or Fast Expand build used by the Protoss  Liquid_Brackett
I know I'm not going to win this argument since the OP and Yans are obviously probably on skype right now raging over "That one guy who's hating on our post"...
But do you really see nothing contradictory with what I quoted from the OP?
My point is, in a normal/standard PvT matchup with an open map like metalopolis, a protoss won't fast expand. (Normally you'll go fast robo for an obs to scout what Terran's doing on unsafe to expand maps as protoss)
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On April 06 2011 23:33 Scrubington wrote:
Yea, I agree, Thor rush would be more effective in my opinion too since they crush force fields.
(Edit: I'm a high diamond protoss player.)
actually i been trying to mix with the thor raven marine 250 cannon rush , and actually it works pretty good vs a 1 base play like 1 base collosi , or a lets say 3 gate robo expand
But the one thing this build dont work good against is a fe , like 1 gate fe or 2 gate fe or nexus first
just because its a to slow build for a fe and you will get out macrod by the time the rush hits even if you kill of the first army you already lost
all this is done with 2/3 of all scv pulled (its an all in) and the protoss is allways to stupid to understand that this is an all in and if he deffends it he win so in no games do the protoss pull his probes
and yet an fe beats and thor marine raven 250 cannons build , so this is i thing not to go for if you see and fe , just pointing that fact out
And for the next thing people will ask , cant you go for fast thor marine without 250 and raven? , yes you can but 3 things will happen , protoss will scout this (no raven and the early moveout , he will know there is no raven and no time for 250 )
stalkers will be way more effective (yes even with 2 thors)
And immortals will be way more effective
Yes a thor build is really effective , but not against an fe
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If you want to all in some one to punish them there are several ways 10x better than this.
- Thor rush should insta-win against 3gate-nexus-robo and has a chance against 1gate fe
- 1 base tank marine push (3 tanks) should auto-win against 3gate fe and if you push with 1 tank you pretty much auto-win against 1gate fe
If you're blindly all-inning anyway, there are builds 10x better than this.
- 2 rax gasless scv-marine all in that was already mentioned
- The Tasteless build! (1-1-1 with marine/tank/banshee/raven for pdd for the noobs who don't know what I'm sizzayin)
In the meantime, I advise all terran readers to use their scvs for mining minerals. And building stuff.
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This has to be a troll....right???
1) Calling it Bracketting
2)"Liquid_Bracket"
3)Obvious BitbyBitPrime
4)The thought that using 90% of your SCV's (going all in), whilst losing mining time AND probably losing some if not most of the SCV's, is a technique to kill an expo and not even to straight up win the game is silly...
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On April 06 2011 23:55 Scrubington wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 21:22 GaryBrackett wrote:Bracketting will only work on maps where the Natural is open (Metalopolis) and not on maps where the Natural has little access (Shakuras Plateau) The idea of this build is to combat any form of Gateway or Fast Expand build used by the Protoss Liquid_Brackett I know I'm not going to win this argument since the OP and Yans are obviously probably on skype right now raging over "That one guy who's hating on our post"... But do you really see nothing contradictory with what I quoted from the OP? My point is, in a normal/standard PvT matchup with an open map like metalopolis, a protoss won't fast expand.
You say you are high diamond in an earlier post. Builds do not matter below masters as shown by RootDestiny (you can win with mass queens).
This is highlighting your lack of knowledge on the matter.
Protoss still 1 Gate Expand on maps such as Xel Naga Caverns and Metalopolis where the natural is more open. It's fairly standard to say that a Protoss won't fast expand on Metalopolis is ridiculous where's your proof for this?
Sorry for the harsh tone of my response squire.
Liquid_Brackett
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I'm pretty sure this is just called all-ining, and if we were to ever make a fancy name for it I wouldn't call it Bracketting, but bitbybitting. I'm fairly certain he was the one who popularized this technique, not you.
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On April 06 2011 23:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
If you want to all in some one to punish them there are several ways 10x better than this.
- Thor rush should insta-win against 3gate-nexus-robo and has a chance against 1gate fe
- 1 base tank marine push (3 tanks) should auto-win against 3gate fe and if you push with 1 tank you pretty much auto-win against 1gate fe
If you're blindly all-inning anyway, there are builds 10x better than this.
- 2 rax gasless scv-marine all in that was already mentioned
- The Tasteless build! (1-1-1 with marine/tank/banshee/raven for pdd for the noobs who don't know what I'm sizzayin)
In the meantime, I advise all terran readers to use their scvs for mining minerals. And building stuff.
All the builds you have mentioned are easily scout able while this build is not scout able until you pull the SCV's.
Liquid_Brackett
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On April 07 2011 00:01 GaryBrackett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:57 Alejandrisha wrote:
If you want to all in some one to punish them there are several ways 10x better than this.
- Thor rush should insta-win against 3gate-nexus-robo and has a chance against 1gate fe
- 1 base tank marine push (3 tanks) should auto-win against 3gate fe and if you push with 1 tank you pretty much auto-win against 1gate fe
If you're blindly all-inning anyway, there are builds 10x better than this.
- 2 rax gasless scv-marine all in that was already mentioned
- The Tasteless build! (1-1-1 with marine/tank/banshee/raven for pdd for the noobs who don't know what I'm sizzayin)
In the meantime, I advise all terran readers to use their scvs for mining minerals. And building stuff. All the builds you have mentioned are easily scout able while this build is not scout able until you pull the SCV's. Liquid_Brackett
the only one that is "easily scoutable" is the tasteless build, but that can easily be mistaken for dual port no-cloak or cloak rush. Could even be mistaken for a thor rush if it's a 2-gasser
2 rax scv-all in looks exactly like a gasless 1rax fe until the first stalker gets out if you're denying probe scouting properly
1 base tank marine push is 1 gas and looks exactly like anything else until you can deny the scouting probe.
???
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On April 06 2011 23:59 GaryBrackett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2011 23:55 Scrubington wrote:On April 06 2011 21:22 GaryBrackett wrote:Bracketting will only work on maps where the Natural is open (Metalopolis) and not on maps where the Natural has little access (Shakuras Plateau) The idea of this build is to combat any form of Gateway or Fast Expand build used by the Protoss Liquid_Brackett I know I'm not going to win this argument since the OP and Yans are obviously probably on skype right now raging over "That one guy who's hating on our post"... But do you really see nothing contradictory with what I quoted from the OP? My point is, in a normal/standard PvT matchup with an open map like metalopolis, a protoss won't fast expand. You say you are high diamond in an earlier post. Builds do not matter below masters as shown by RootDestiny (you can win with mass queens). This is highlighting your lack of knowledge on the matter. Protoss still 1 Gate Expand on maps such as Xel Naga Caverns and Metalopolis where the natural is more open. It's fairly standard to say that a Protoss won't fast expand on Metalopolis is ridiculous where's your proof for this? Sorry for the harsh tone of my response squire. Liquid_Brackett
I'm speaking from experience, I often play master league Terran players, and I'm sure my fellow Protoss players would agree with me when I say 1 gate fast expanding on an open natural map (eg. Xel'naga, Metalopolis) as Protoss against a Terran player is borderline suicidal.
ROOTDestiny's point was builds don't matter as long as you have good mechanics at lower level, it's obvious that builds to matter at high level play.
In conclusion, you trying to use ROOTDestiny to support your argument was simply incorrect to do since this isn't Bronze league we're talking about... And as to respond to the "Where's your proof?" comment, again, I'm speaking from experience and I'm sure any Protoss player would agree with me.
EDIT: Don't name your build after yourself man, that's honestly the douchiest thing you could possibly do and it's bothering everybody in this thread (If sombody honestly disagrees with this please let me know, other than Yans and the OP obviously)... Sorry for the harsh tone of my response, squire.
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EPT
