• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:02
CEST 00:02
KST 07:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 239ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion6Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon445.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40
StarCraft 2
General
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 2 What is your PC setup in 2026 for SCBW/SC2 ? Most successful SC2 players of Q2 2026 MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon Is the larve respawn broken?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL22 General Discussion BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion FlaSh: This Will Be My Final ASL【ASL S21 Ro.16】
Tourneys
[ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [Megathread] Daily Proleagues IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4! CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4920 users

[G] Protoss expo and mining guide.

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
DeltaG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 11:31:46
March 19 2011 08:49 GMT
#1
Chem final in 6 hours...but here is something I was working today instead of studying...I'm planning on adding a lot more information tomorrow and also adding visual aids to make it easier to read... enjoy...wish me luck to...

Over view:
+ Show Spoiler +

As a Protoss I was not sure when to expand and how to spend my chronoboost. This guide is the result of my research. According to my calculations the best time to get your first expansion is 3:00 and second expansion at 7:00. These timings are good only to gauge when the best time to expos are, if you actually do take expos this early you are very open ta a early rush...

Premises:Mining
+ Show Spoiler +

Maximum saturation is 3X8=24 miners + 6 on gas = 30 probes per base. The 3rd probe cannot mine optimally-this because miners in Star craft 2 take turns sitting at minerals [the exception to this is mules]. So now the real optimum mining saturation is 16 on minerals and 6 on gas… The So this would mean the best time to expand would be at 22 probe with two gas, 19 probes on one gas, and 16 with no gas.
By the way:
+ Show Spoiler +
15 Assimilator along with a chronoboost on the nexus is the most economically optimal timing for gas; the 30 seconds it takes to build the assimilator will produce the 3 workers needed to saturate it.

Further explanation: Skip if you understood the above
+ Show Spoiler +

So basically it would behoove you to expand right as you get 2 probes on each of your 8 mineral patches… Ideally the second nexus would complete a few seconds after your 17th probe 20th or 23rd finishes at your main. I haven’t done the math but It is impossible to get your second nexus up before you get to 16 probes without cutting production from the nexus. So what am I going on about? Essentially; you’d rather have less probes mining on more mineral patches than more probes mining on less mineral patches. This is due to diminishing returns on each probe after you reach 2 per patch.

Advanced technique:
+ Show Spoiler +

[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=197826]Probe micro to get small economic advantage.

Chronoboosting Probes:
+ Show Spoiler +

Normally it takes 17 seconds to build a probe… the math on Chrono-boosting roughly comes out to an extra probe and a half every 2 two chronos spent on the nexus... meaning you can get 4 probes in the time it takes to make 3… Spending 4 consecutive chronoboosts will yield 11 probes instead 8 in the same time… the math can get complicated with multiple nexus and energy regeneration being slower than amount it cost to chrono boost.

Timing: Elaboration
+ Show Spoiler +

With constant probe production (with-out Chronoboosting) at around (4:40) and [4:20] [with Chronoboosting] your investment in more probes one base will start to diminish returns. At (6:15) [5.40] your will be fully saturated, thus more probes on base will not net you any real gains. For the proposes of this example I assumed that both gases have been taken and saturated. 60 Probes working off of two bases can harvest roughly 1625 minerals and 440 gas per minute. 66 probes mining off of 3 bases can harvest roughly 2025 minerals and 660 gas per minute.

Roughly the best expansion timings 1ST Expo at 3:00 – 2nd Expo 7.00. At 11:30 saturation on 3 bases will be optimul. Times here reflect roughly around the time when an extra nexus would get you more income… so any time past these expo timings your investment in a new base would be worth it..each nexus would pay the greatest deviance at 3.00 and 7.00..

How to use this information:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Why cutting probes is better than maynarding:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Reasons why Protoss is the new macro race:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Concluding remarks:
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Q&A
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

Replays
+ Show Spoiler +
Coming soon...

"Delta G is negative"
Shado.
Profile Joined February 2008
United States187 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 09:11:04
March 19 2011 09:10 GMT
#2
Can you do more research in terms of comparing building you nexus 1-3 probes earlier and later and comparing the data on a graph?

Thinking back on my statement, it makes a lot of sense, the earlier your expo is out, the more economy you get, I guess I don't really see the practical application.
DeltaG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 09:13:36
March 19 2011 09:13 GMT
#3
On March 19 2011 18:10 Shado. wrote:
Can you do more research in terms of comparing building you nexus 1-3 probes earlier and later and comparing the data on a graph?

Thinking back on my statement, it makes a lot of sense, the earlier your expo is out, the more economy you get, I guess I don't really see the practical application.


I will do a full update tomorrow with alot more details and visual aids.
"Delta G is negative"
AnxiousHippo
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia1451 Posts
March 19 2011 09:49 GMT
#4
Expanding at 3:00 and 7:00 sounds kinda dodgy...
An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF
Shadowcaster
Profile Joined February 2011
23 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 10:18:25
March 19 2011 10:15 GMT
#5
DeltaG While I appreciate your attempt at analysis. I cant see any of these conclusion actually being useful without an illustration of what else you can achieve while trying to maintain adherence to these insane constraints. This looks very similar to a zerg expansion pattern when encountering a protoss that 3 gate expos with sentry heavy army.

Perhaps before continuing do research on whether how one could achieve peak mining efficiency. See if there is ever a situation when this tactic would be applicable. Other wise this is just a recipe for disaster. Are there any prevailing strategy that would allow such aggressive expansion timings, I dont know of one.

Perhaps you are a gold level zerg attempting to confuse protoss into playing badly in order to drum up some free winz? Clever boy!!!!

EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
March 19 2011 10:31 GMT
#6
On March 19 2011 18:49 35spike1 wrote:
Expanding at 3:00 and 7:00 sounds kinda dodgy...


Yea, more unit constraints (in the form by must have at least so and so by x time) please. Otherwise it's completely impractical and just an exercise in mining.
DeltaG
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States84 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-19 11:51:21
March 19 2011 11:36 GMT
#7
On March 19 2011 19:15 Shadowcaster wrote:
DeltaG While I appreciate your attempt at analysis. I cant see any of these conclusion actually being useful without an illustration of what else you can achieve while trying to maintain adherence to these insane constraints. This looks very similar to a zerg expansion pattern when encountering a protoss that 3 gate expos with sentry heavy army.

Perhaps before continuing do research on whether how one could achieve peak mining efficiency. See if there is ever a situation when this tactic would be applicable. Other wise this is just a recipe for disaster. Are there any prevailing strategy that would allow such aggressive expansion timings, I dont know of one.

Perhaps you are a gold level zerg attempting to confuse protoss into playing badly in order to drum up some free winz? Clever boy!!!!



On March 19 2011 17:49 DeltaG wrote:
Chem final in 6 hours...but here is something I was working today instead of studying...I'm planning on adding a lot more information tomorrow and also adding visual aids to make it easier to read...




I added a teaser of topics I will be discussing tomorrow. Thank you for those illuminating questions. Questions are most welcomed and I will be delighted to answer them at length. However please refrain from any using accusatory remarks; comments like that are not only nonconstructive but also serve diminish the discussion we are trying to have here. Not to mention disrespectful.
"Delta G is negative"
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 636
Ketroc 50
ROOTCatZ 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Purpose 12
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm118
Counter-Strike
summit1g6391
minikerr26
Other Games
Grubby3952
tarik_tv3920
Liquid`RaSZi1415
ToD217
ArmadaUGS155
Chillindude36
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick5453
BasetradeTV254
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 22
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21677
Other Games
• imaqtpie1700
• Shiphtur271
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 58m
GSL
12h 58m
Monday Night Weeklies
17h 58m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 12h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CrankTV Team League
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.