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Active: 1300 users

[G] PvP: The "Maka" Gate

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 03:17:17
March 17 2011 02:37 GMT
#1
The Introduction:
+ Show Spoiler +
This build is my variation (or a rip-off) of Adelscott's PvP build. Check out the below links for details.

[G] Adel's No Gas PvP:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=176706
Starcraft 2 Day[9] Daily #175 - Adel's No-Gas PvP:


As the name suggests, MakaPrime is one of the first to do something like this and really popularize it through some of his GSL matches.

The Maka Rax the best thing ever?:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=190449


The Thoery:
+ Show Spoiler +
Adelscott's original build gets 2 gates before adding an assimilator and a cybernetics core, which obnoxiously gives away the build information. The build is designed to punish any greedy robo builds, or delay the 4 gate long enough to get an early expansion up at the cost of a late warpgate research.

Now, it is already a pretty popular build among many Protoss players that despise 4 gate affairs. The only problem I had with this build was that it was easily scoutable. The probe can outrun a zealot forever and I was forced to put down my second gateway in his vision. Then, the opponent can react accordingly.

After thinking about it, I thought 'hey, why not proxy my second gate'. Then I ran into another problem, The second gate was often too far away from my main that I would die to proxy 2 gate zealots or it would get easily be picked off, slowing down my production in key moments.

So, the "Maka" gate is something in the middle. Something not too risky, but something that can catch the opponent off-guard. Something MakaPrime probably intended to do with his "Maka" rax.

Sure, the non-existence of the second pylon / late gas and core might alert you. You start scouting everywhere, and TADAA find my second gateway. Guess what, it's just a standard no gas PvP build. That's the thing I like most about this: low risk, pretty good reward.


The Build:
+ Show Spoiler +
9 Pylon
13 Gateway
14 Pylon (in your natural)
16 Gateway (in your natural)
17 Zealot
20 Assimilator
21 Pylon
21 Zealot
24 Cybernetics Core
26 Zealot
28 Zealot (attack when 4th zealot is out)
30 Stalker (chrono boost)
32 Stalker (chrono boost)
34 Pylon

As you can see, it is basically identical to Adel's build. Rip-off? Sure. Creative? I'd like to think so.

There are variations to this build. I've had 3 zealots 3 stalkers attacking at similar times instead of 4 zealots and 2 stalkers, with having warpgate done at around 6:15. You can transition into whatever you like.


The Pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
Looks incredibly similar... no?
[image loading]
I made my move...
[image loading]
Too bad you don't know about it...
[image loading]
Not enough pylons...


The Results:
+ Show Spoiler +
I absolutely hated PvP, and I sucked at it. After I started using this build, my PvP winrate on ladder jumped to some ridiculous ~85%. (Sounds like a Viagra commercial I know)

Well, you might ask, LOL HOW HARD IS IT TO SCOUT YOUR NATRUAL. To answer that question. In ~30 games I tried this, NOT 1 SINGLE OPPONENT scouted my natural. At the very high levels, people will start counting pylons and know that my core is late, but up to low-mid masters, people either don't notice, or they think I've fucked up the build. Take it for what it is.


The Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150934-1v1-protoss-gutterhulk
Against 4 gate

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150928-1v1-protoss-xelnaga-caverns
Against 2 gate robo

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/150926-1v1-protoss-lost-temple
Against proxy 2 gate

For more replays, go take a look at some of the original build replays. My games usually end up the same way.

There are more first-hand replays, of me failing, but I blame that on my lack of multitasking rather than the inadequacy of the build. Most of the losses come from the opponent 4 gating and me not having warpgate research done in time because I either forgot or it was really late


TOO LONG DID NOT READ
+ Show Spoiler +
1. Put second gateway in natural
2. Copy Adelscott's no gas PvP build
3. Surprise!

UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Sajimo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States95 Posts
March 17 2011 02:48 GMT
#2
could this work against the quick thor builds? seems like enough units to punish a teching terran, just have to know what to scout for
"this is just a ride" - Bill Hicks
TNine
Profile Joined January 2011
United States46 Posts
March 17 2011 02:52 GMT
#3
On March 17 2011 11:48 Sajimo wrote:
could this work against the quick thor builds? seems like enough units to punish a teching terran, just have to know what to scout for

It's a PvP build...
"In that case they would be...lultralisks."
Zoku
Profile Joined November 2010
307 Posts
March 17 2011 02:55 GMT
#4
The problem with this build is, if I'm your opponent, I'm gonna go in your base, and see no 2nd pylon. That's a cue for me to scout everywhere.
GoldenH
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1115 Posts
March 17 2011 02:59 GMT
#5
At the very high levels, people will start counting pylons and know that my core is late, but up to low-mid masters, people either don't notice, or they think I've fucked up the build.


It seems like there's a lot for them to not notice. You'd have no gas, which would make me think it might be a proxy 2 gate. Whether or not I scout the thing in your natural is pretty irrelevant... as anything BUT 2 gating when you get a late gas is suicide. Expecting people to not know what they have, because they haven't actually seen something, is a rookie mistake. I think that you're not getting any more obscurity by what you're doing.
"(Dudes are) not going to say "Buy this game — I cried at the end". (...) I suppose the secret is to find a game that makes you shoot eight million fuckin' dudes and then cry about how awesome it is to shoot eight million fuckin' dudes." - Tim Rogers
Obelisco
Profile Joined January 2011
Peru1962 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 03:03:27
March 17 2011 03:00 GMT
#6
On March 17 2011 11:48 Sajimo wrote:
could this work against the quick thor builds? seems like enough units to punish a teching terran, just have to know what to scout for

Its a PvP build, it wouldn't work as theres pretty much no way to know if terran is going to pressure/tech/expand when u make the decision to go with this build (making pylon outside and making 2nd gate instead of cybercore). If you go 2 gate against terran its just a gamble relying in terran teching.

On topic: i think this is an interesting build, however its biggest weakness is the trend of pvp. As terran, off 1 rax no gas you can expo or go 2 rax.

Off 1 gate no gas as toss, i really don't think you would like to expo off 1 gate in pvp lol, so one of the possibilities is taken out. Any detailed player could figure out there is something wrong, as no gas/no insta cyber after gateway is not common plus you are missing the second pylon.

However, if this goes undetected, it can really give you an advantage, but its hard to hide your build. Still, Adelscott pvp is naturally strong.Edit: This probably can give you an advantage as the build goes a little more undetected and gives less time to prepare for the opponent
AirbladeOrange
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2573 Posts
March 17 2011 03:00 GMT
#7
It's pretty clever. Even if they notice that you're one pylon short, it's likely they will go into panic mode and think it's a proxy by their own base. Throwing different builds like this one that an opponent is not used to may allow them to be the one to make the mistake or overreact.
siri
Profile Joined November 2010
Portugal129 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 03:02:49
March 17 2011 03:02 GMT
#8
maybe it works on diamond, but good players will go out on search the missing 2 pylon
plus the build is already bad and you dont need to see the 2 gate to realize whats happening...late gas? late core?
SpiritAshura
Profile Joined March 2007
United States1271 Posts
March 17 2011 03:06 GMT
#9
it's clever in the aspect that most people will think it's some sort of proxy like the post above me said, causing an over reaction at time (the over reaction isn't necessary it's only a benefit from my view on the build)...i like it in theory i'm gonna give it a shot.
Ezkaton
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Japan416 Posts
March 17 2011 03:07 GMT
#10
I think even if they notice the pylon missing and they assume a proxy, it might make them abandon their initial plan or go into panic mode. Both of which benefit you I guess. I'm definately going to try it out, I'm so sick of 4 gate
CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-17 03:11:31
March 17 2011 03:09 GMT
#11
Well, that's what my friends say too. "Oh It's too ez to scout", but really, they're so stuck up with what they planned to do beforehand, and sometimes their reactions are too late. I play against 3300~ Master opponents BTW.

[EDIT]: Also, even if they DO scout it, it's the same thing as the Adelscott's build, which has PROVEN to work at the highest level. I just have a gateway below my ramp...
UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Cel.erity
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4890 Posts
March 17 2011 03:12 GMT
#12
The first thing I look for when I scout my opponent's base: how many chronos are on the nexus. The next thing: timing of his gas. The third thing: why isn't he getting his cyber core? The last thing I'm worried about is whether his 2nd gateway is in his main or his natural. I don't feel like you're really covering up any important information with this variant.
We found Dove in a soapless place.
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
March 17 2011 03:16 GMT
#13
I have a feeling this build will only be effective for a short time if it becomes popular, I know that if i don't see the second pylon in my PvPs I will definately look for that second gate. Only time will tell.
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
March 17 2011 03:21 GMT
#14
On March 17 2011 12:16 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
I have a feeling this build will only be effective for a short time if it becomes popular, I know that if i don't see the second pylon in my PvPs I will definately look for that second gate. Only time will tell.

Well, it's just a 'cute' build you could bust out once in a while . A little variation is always nice. And besides, there can only be so many people reading this topic that not everyone will be aware of it.
UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Garth
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States353 Posts
March 17 2011 03:22 GMT
#15
would scare the hell out of me and I'd probably throw down a forge if I just saw no gas , 1 gate 1 pylon at 3300 Masters. I definately would not continue my build ( as a standard 4 gate dies to a proxy 2 gate obviously with no deviations.
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
March 17 2011 03:26 GMT
#16
On March 17 2011 12:21 CanucksJC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 17 2011 12:16 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
I have a feeling this build will only be effective for a short time if it becomes popular, I know that if i don't see the second pylon in my PvPs I will definately look for that second gate. Only time will tell.

Well, it's just a 'cute' build you could bust out once in a while . A little variation is always nice. And besides, there can only be so many people reading this topic that not everyone will be aware of it.

Agreed, I could probably get some easy PvP wins with this build, at least for a little while; I wasn't trying to condemn it or anything ^_^
It's a sick variation.
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
CanucksJC
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1241 Posts
March 17 2011 03:28 GMT
#17
On March 17 2011 12:22 Garth wrote:
would scare the hell out of me and I'd probably throw down a forge if I just saw no gas , 1 gate 1 pylon at 3300 Masters. I definately would not continue my build ( as a standard 4 gate dies to a proxy 2 gate obviously with no deviations.

Actually, I played against a few people that put down a forge, in that case, I would just pick off what I can and back off. I'll know that my expansion will be safe. Forge + cannons put you at a BIG disadvantage.
UBC StarCraft Club is official @ UBC Vancouver campus! Your first eSport community on campus. Welcomes players of all levels at UBC. Follow us on facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/group.php?gid=155630424470014 or IRC @ irc.rizon.net #ubcsc
Kappa09
Profile Joined January 2011
United States149 Posts
March 17 2011 03:37 GMT
#18
Wow I actually really like the sound of this build. PvP is just such a weird matchup that something like this could be very useful. Not many people would expect a build like this. Good job being creative and combining 2 builds into 1.
iamke55
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States2806 Posts
March 17 2011 03:38 GMT
#19
Stuff like this is just another part of the reason I have pvp. If I see a single gate and no gas, I'm going to insta-forge and cannon my mineral line while chronoing out zealots. And then you just expand and I lose T_T
During practice session, I discovered very good build against zerg. -Bisu[Shield]
Venomsflame
Profile Joined February 2011
United States613 Posts
March 17 2011 03:40 GMT
#20
First of all, I am pretty sure Garth was saying that it is a good idea as it would force a reaction. I don't think he was picking at it.

Also, everyone(myself included) seems to think that it's the lack of gas that throws the idea away. Couldn't a variation be made that grabs the gas? Seeing 1 gate, gas will let the toss rest easy. He will assume the lack of pylon is a mistake or simply not notice at all. P players look for Gate count, gas, then go back to macro and have their probe dance around in base. Definitely an interesting idea!
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