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The Introduction:
+ Show Spoiler +
The Thoery:
+ Show Spoiler +Adelscott's original build gets 2 gates before adding an assimilator and a cybernetics core, which obnoxiously gives away the build information. The build is designed to punish any greedy robo builds, or delay the 4 gate long enough to get an early expansion up at the cost of a late warpgate research.
Now, it is already a pretty popular build among many Protoss players that despise 4 gate affairs. The only problem I had with this build was that it was easily scoutable. The probe can outrun a zealot forever and I was forced to put down my second gateway in his vision. Then, the opponent can react accordingly.
After thinking about it, I thought 'hey, why not proxy my second gate'. Then I ran into another problem, The second gate was often too far away from my main that I would die to proxy 2 gate zealots or it would get easily be picked off, slowing down my production in key moments.
So, the "Maka" gate is something in the middle. Something not too risky, but something that can catch the opponent off-guard. Something MakaPrime probably intended to do with his "Maka" rax.
Sure, the non-existence of the second pylon / late gas and core might alert you. You start scouting everywhere, and TADAA find my second gateway. Guess what, it's just a standard no gas PvP build. That's the thing I like most about this: low risk, pretty good reward.
The Build:
+ Show Spoiler +9 Pylon
13 Gateway
14 Pylon (in your natural)
16 Gateway (in your natural)
17 Zealot
20 Assimilator
21 Pylon
21 Zealot
24 Cybernetics Core
26 Zealot
28 Zealot (attack when 4th zealot is out)
30 Stalker (chrono boost)
32 Stalker (chrono boost)
34 Pylon
As you can see, it is basically identical to Adel's build. Rip-off? Sure. Creative? I'd like to think so.
There are variations to this build. I've had 3 zealots 3 stalkers attacking at similar times instead of 4 zealots and 2 stalkers, with having warpgate done at around 6:15. You can transition into whatever you like.
The Pictures:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HYdYR.png) Looks incredibly similar... no?  ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yCI6f.jpg) I made my move... ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qEOdd.jpg) Too bad you don't know about it... ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/L3Oii.jpg) Not enough pylons...
The Results:
+ Show Spoiler +I absolutely hated PvP, and I sucked at it. After I started using this build, my PvP winrate on ladder jumped to some ridiculous ~85%. (Sounds like a Viagra commercial I know)
Well, you might ask, LOL HOW HARD IS IT TO SCOUT YOUR NATRUAL. To answer that question. In ~30 games I tried this, NOT 1 SINGLE OPPONENT scouted my natural. At the very high levels, people will start counting pylons and know that my core is late, but up to low-mid masters, people either don't notice, or they think I've fucked up the build. Take it for what it is.
The Replays:
+ Show Spoiler +
TOO LONG DID NOT READ
+ Show Spoiler +1. Put second gateway in natural
2. Copy Adelscott's no gas PvP build
3. Surprise!
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could this work against the quick thor builds? seems like enough units to punish a teching terran, just have to know what to scout for
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On March 17 2011 11:48 Sajimo wrote:
could this work against the quick thor builds? seems like enough units to punish a teching terran, just have to know what to scout for
It's a PvP build...
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The problem with this build is, if I'm your opponent, I'm gonna go in your base, and see no 2nd pylon. That's a cue for me to scout everywhere.
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At the very high levels, people will start counting pylons and know that my core is late, but up to low-mid masters, people either don't notice, or they think I've fucked up the build.
It seems like there's a lot for them to not notice. You'd have no gas, which would make me think it might be a proxy 2 gate. Whether or not I scout the thing in your natural is pretty irrelevant... as anything BUT 2 gating when you get a late gas is suicide. Expecting people to not know what they have, because they haven't actually seen something, is a rookie mistake. I think that you're not getting any more obscurity by what you're doing.
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On March 17 2011 11:48 Sajimo wrote:
could this work against the quick thor builds? seems like enough units to punish a teching terran, just have to know what to scout for
Its a PvP build, it wouldn't work as theres pretty much no way to know if terran is going to pressure/tech/expand when u make the decision to go with this build (making pylon outside and making 2nd gate instead of cybercore). If you go 2 gate against terran its just a gamble relying in terran teching.
On topic: i think this is an interesting build, however its biggest weakness is the trend of pvp. As terran, off 1 rax no gas you can expo or go 2 rax.
Off 1 gate no gas as toss, i really don't think you would like to expo off 1 gate in pvp lol, so one of the possibilities is taken out. Any detailed player could figure out there is something wrong, as no gas/no insta cyber after gateway is not common plus you are missing the second pylon.
However, if this goes undetected, it can really give you an advantage, but its hard to hide your build. Still, Adelscott pvp is naturally strong.Edit: This probably can give you an advantage as the build goes a little more undetected and gives less time to prepare for the opponent
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It's pretty clever. Even if they notice that you're one pylon short, it's likely they will go into panic mode and think it's a proxy by their own base. Throwing different builds like this one that an opponent is not used to may allow them to be the one to make the mistake or overreact.
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maybe it works on diamond, but good players will go out on search the missing 2 pylon
plus the build is already bad and you dont need to see the 2 gate to realize whats happening...late gas? late core?
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it's clever in the aspect that most people will think it's some sort of proxy like the post above me said, causing an over reaction at time (the over reaction isn't necessary it's only a benefit from my view on the build)...i like it in theory i'm gonna give it a shot.
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I think even if they notice the pylon missing and they assume a proxy, it might make them abandon their initial plan or go into panic mode. Both of which benefit you I guess. I'm definately going to try it out, I'm so sick of 4 gate 
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Well, that's what my friends say too. "Oh It's too ez to scout", but really, they're so stuck up with what they planned to do beforehand, and sometimes their reactions are too late. I play against 3300~ Master opponents BTW.
[EDIT]: Also, even if they DO scout it, it's the same thing as the Adelscott's build, which has PROVEN to work at the highest level. I just have a gateway below my ramp...
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The first thing I look for when I scout my opponent's base: how many chronos are on the nexus. The next thing: timing of his gas. The third thing: why isn't he getting his cyber core? The last thing I'm worried about is whether his 2nd gateway is in his main or his natural. I don't feel like you're really covering up any important information with this variant.
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I have a feeling this build will only be effective for a short time if it becomes popular, I know that if i don't see the second pylon in my PvPs I will definately look for that second gate. Only time will tell.
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On March 17 2011 12:16 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
I have a feeling this build will only be effective for a short time if it becomes popular, I know that if i don't see the second pylon in my PvPs I will definately look for that second gate. Only time will tell.
Well, it's just a 'cute' build you could bust out once in a while . A little variation is always nice. And besides, there can only be so many people reading this topic that not everyone will be aware of it.
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would scare the hell out of me and I'd probably throw down a forge if I just saw no gas , 1 gate 1 pylon at 3300 Masters. I definately would not continue my build ( as a standard 4 gate dies to a proxy 2 gate obviously with no deviations.
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On March 17 2011 12:21 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 12:16 CrazyF1r3f0x wrote:
I have a feeling this build will only be effective for a short time if it becomes popular, I know that if i don't see the second pylon in my PvPs I will definately look for that second gate. Only time will tell. Well, it's just a 'cute' build you could bust out once in a while . A little variation is always nice. And besides, there can only be so many people reading this topic that not everyone will be aware of it.
Agreed, I could probably get some easy PvP wins with this build, at least for a little while; I wasn't trying to condemn it or anything ^_^
It's a sick variation.
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On March 17 2011 12:22 Garth wrote:
would scare the hell out of me and I'd probably throw down a forge if I just saw no gas , 1 gate 1 pylon at 3300 Masters. I definately would not continue my build ( as a standard 4 gate dies to a proxy 2 gate obviously with no deviations.
Actually, I played against a few people that put down a forge, in that case, I would just pick off what I can and back off. I'll know that my expansion will be safe. Forge + cannons put you at a BIG disadvantage.
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Wow I actually really like the sound of this build. PvP is just such a weird matchup that something like this could be very useful. Not many people would expect a build like this. Good job being creative and combining 2 builds into 1.
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United States2806 Posts
Stuff like this is just another part of the reason I have pvp. If I see a single gate and no gas, I'm going to insta-forge and cannon my mineral line while chronoing out zealots. And then you just expand and I lose T_T
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First of all, I am pretty sure Garth was saying that it is a good idea as it would force a reaction. I don't think he was picking at it.
Also, everyone(myself included) seems to think that it's the lack of gas that throws the idea away. Couldn't a variation be made that grabs the gas? Seeing 1 gate, gas will let the toss rest easy. He will assume the lack of pylon is a mistake or simply not notice at all. P players look for Gate count, gas, then go back to macro and have their probe dance around in base. Definitely an interesting idea!
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While I appreciate people trying to help others by posting their builds and everything, this seems a little excessive. I don't think it's all that beneficial to make posts about every minor variation in a build that, quite honestly, are pretty basic to begin with. Proxying buildings, or even building stuff at your natural at the beginning, are things that people will do naturally to fit what they want to do.
Though maybe I'm being an overly critical ass. /shrug.
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I have changed my mind. I love this idea. After I wake up at 4 tomorrow I'm going to abuse and perfect this until it catches on!
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On March 17 2011 12:40 Venomsflame wrote:
First of all, I am pretty sure Garth was saying that it is a good idea as it would force a reaction. I don't think he was picking at it.
Also, everyone(myself included) seems to think that it's the lack of gas that throws the idea away. Couldn't a variation be made that grabs the gas? Seeing 1 gate, gas will let the toss rest easy. He will assume the lack of pylon is a mistake or simply not notice at all. P players look for Gate count, gas, then go back to macro and have their probe dance around in base. Definitely an interesting idea!
yea I like the build.
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A great way to induce a reaction with minimal risk. Definitely something to keep in mind in my PvPs.
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if i see 1 gate with no gas and no core, i would probably start forging up and start dark templar rushing, then expand behind that i guess.
That being said, interesting build and i might try it out when i have time
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Careful dilinearating between the build and the suggestion - the adel build is quite viable, even with the late gas. The main difference the OP has suggested is the 'maka gate', which sounds good offensively but I tend to find that there's often a counter attack when you've finished your 4:40 push, and by building a pylon and a gate in your nat, you're giving up your ramp. I'm not sure that's the best option.
It might even be better to place the gate somewhere completely and utterly out of the way, (other side of the map) combine your forces for the push and then for defence you'll have warpgates up and it doesn't matter that your gate is on the other side of the map?
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I don't really have a comment about the guide's content, but why did you put the ENTIRE GUIDE in spoilers? I can see putting the pictures in spoilers, but everything else is just text and isnt... spoiling anything. To be honest it's annoying having to click to unspoil everything on the damn page.
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This could be used for some shenanigans by putting the 2nd pylon in your base still, but near the edge of your base, and putting the gateway on the low ground on some off beaten path. This would be map specific though to things like Temple and Metal in certain spawns, but it would certainly decrease the suspiciousness of the missing pylon
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Like it a lot. Thumbs up! The chances of the opponent reacting properly are small.
Forging up? Great, you can just turn back home and have done the damage you want to do with that build without even fighting.
Adding a second gateway early? Okay, he's kinda going in your direction, but your build is optimized quite a bit and you're going to expand behind it, so nothing to worry about.
He still does the normal 4 gate? He is a big baller and he will be punished for that with your first timing attack.
Also, the gate + pylon are protected because you expand behind your attack. Like it a lot.
One thing im not sure about is the 3 stalker anti 4 gate rush. Have you ever played against that with adels build? I did and the first zealots were so weak against the stalkers I picked at least 2 off and the rush failed horribly. In my opinion this build not only counters 4gate but also counters adels build, so if you did the dual gate in your base, its kind off an autoloss. With the maka gate you have the chance that he will overreact tho.
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On March 17 2011 13:28 moonylo wrote:
Like it a lot. Thumbs up! The chances of the opponent reacting properly are small.
Forging up? Great, you can just turn back home and have done the damage you want to do with that build without even fighting.
Adding a second gateway early? Okay, he's kinda going in your direction, but your build is optimized quite a bit and you're going to expand behind it, so nothing to worry about.
He still does the normal 4 gate? He is a big baller and he will be punished for that with your first timing attack.
Also, the gate + pylon are protected because you expand behind your attack. Like it a lot.
One thing im not sure about is the 3 stalker anti 4 gate rush. Have you ever played against that with adels build? I did and the first zealots were so weak against the stalkers I picked at least 2 off and the rush failed horribly. In my opinion this build not only counters 4gate but also counters adels build, so if you did the dual gate in your base, its kind off an autoloss. With the maka gate you have the chance that he will overreact tho.
I played against a guy that did the 3 stalker robo build. I think you either a) ram your head into his base, sac a zealot and chase him back, your stalkers will soon follow. b) sac a zealot and turn right back and wait for your stalkers to cover you.
That game after I expanded and got a quick stargate up knowing that he followed the build. His 2 collosus push came when it was supposed to, and I had 2 vrays with more than enough gateway support. I think you really have to be decisive with your initial zealots.
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Yeah, not bad. But I think if there is any sign of trouble then you should get out asap, if you over commit they are just going to counter and get a free gateway that is in your natural
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On March 17 2011 12:28 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 12:22 Garth wrote:
would scare the hell out of me and I'd probably throw down a forge if I just saw no gas , 1 gate 1 pylon at 3300 Masters. I definately would not continue my build ( as a standard 4 gate dies to a proxy 2 gate obviously with no deviations. Actually, I played against a few people that put down a forge, in that case, I would just pick off what I can and back off. I'll know that my expansion will be safe. Forge + cannons put you at a BIG disadvantage.
If this is a standard reaction to a hidden pylon, I should start randomly placing my second pylon...
Very cool build. I'll be trying this. Although it's going to make 4-gating more nerve-wracking.
A lot of people seem to have missed the fact that there's an assimilator in the build order.
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alright, thanks!
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The entire goal of the Adel build is to either get early aggression to kill/delay the 4gate or defend the 4gate to allow yourself the opportunity to expand and move into the midgame. Disguising the build seems only effective to me if you make it different enough to cause your opponent to react in a way that is favorable to you.
If your opponent has planned to 4 gate and scouts you and expects any form of early aggression, their reaction is likely to be no different if your are doing a proxy gate or an Adel no gas, so I don't see the advantage unless you are hoping (which is never a sound RTS strategy) your opponent will think you've made a mistake or are behind on your build and they'll continue to 4gate anyway.
I could maybe see if you put both gateways in your natural to make it look like a cannon rush, but I doubt your opponent will do much deviation in their build if no pylon/forge/cannons are scouted as soon as he sees just a nexus and mining probes...maybe you catch some people off guard. At least this way if the opponent still 4gates and you manage to do any damage or defend, when you expand to your natural, there is already some infrastructure there to build upon and the natural almost in essence becomes your main at that point. In the lower leagues this would probably have a much higher win rate since they are more likely to freak out when they can't find the forge, or maybe even just throw down a forge once they scout nothing in your main.
I use the adel build a lot and really like its flexibility and aggressive nature. I may play around with the OP's ideas and maybe even try what I suggested and see if it results in enough variation in my opponent's play to be worth while.
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It easy to scout since protoss players should keep track how many pylons are in your base during what phase of the game. Usually its assumed that if there is only 1 pylon when u have lots of probes or cybernetics, it kinda means there is proxy pylon.
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Wow very cool. I was under the assumption that I was the only one actively still messing with openings like this, as I never see anyone else on ladder doing anything interesting O_o
Thanks for the cool idea and great post <3
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how about something like this so they dont freak out seeing no second pylon?
![[image loading]](http://i55.tinypic.com/dqszfq.jpg)
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On March 17 2011 11:55 Zoku wrote:
The problem with this build is, if I'm your opponent, I'm gonna go in your base, and see no 2nd pylon. That's a cue for me to scout everywhere.
Thats exacly what happened to the maka rax opening, the scout would find the rax just in time in maka's natural, and then ppl would always scout maka's natural since it was his playstyle.
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On March 17 2011 12:22 Garth wrote:
would scare the hell out of me and I'd probably throw down a forge if I just saw no gas , 1 gate 1 pylon at 3300 Masters. I definately would not continue my build ( as a standard 4 gate dies to a proxy 2 gate obviously with no deviations.
yeah lol, I overreact too much to no gas PvP builds =O, even if they are not all in, god I hate myself for being such a fail PvP scouter
But yeah good theory! However, the thing about Maka rax is that you can lift if you ever need to, if the game somewhat stabilizes it can be a free gateway kill for your opponent, just a little thing to note there.
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On March 17 2011 15:02 Kira761 wrote:how about something like this so they dont freak out seeing no second pylon?
Subsubconsciously most people actually walk around every pylon and see if it powers anything is what i've noticed. So i don't think that would work.
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1. Put second gateway in natural
2. Copy Adelscott's no gas PvP build
3. Surprise!
Thank you! (Jk I read the whole thing xD)
Sounds fun haha, though on Xel'Naga why not put the pylon/gate closer to the edge of the ground (move it north) so there is less surface area? Or would that make a blind spot where you can't see if a unit moves through the brush?
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Yeah i'd be somewhat by the very late gas as well as not having a cyber.
If i assumed my opponent was bad, i'd probably think it was a great idea to 4 gate because his cyber was sure to be super late
Hopefully i'd remember to try and scout a lot more before committing fully to the 4 gate. Might be too late though by the time I circumnavigated his base looking for something hidden then moved out to natural. MIght also cause me to send another probe out beyond my base looking for shenanigans.
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I like the way it sounds, I've been meaning to try out adels build, this will give me inspiration to learn it. but is his build still viable seeing how the meta game has shifted? (4 gate way more deadly now, along with blink stalkers or 1 base colossal etc...)
-3k+ master
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this is a good idea on ladder, or something to throw in a best of 5 or 7. I wouldn't suggest this against practice partners since they will just figure it out and scout around.
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On March 17 2011 15:26 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I like the way it sounds, I've been meaning to try out adels build, this will give me inspiration to learn it. but is his build still viable seeing how the meta game has shifted? (4 gate way more deadly now, along with blink stalkers or 1 base colossal etc...)
-3k+ master
Yo, the first replay is against you 4 gating. LOL
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On March 17 2011 15:18 prOpSaiton wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 17 2011 15:02 Kira761 wrote:how about something like this so they dont freak out seeing no second pylon? Subsubconsciously most people actually walk around every pylon and see if it powers anything is what i've noticed. So i don't think that would work.
What if you put the pylon snug against the wall maybe in the back of your base so it just looks like you are spreading pylons around your base for vision? I'm just throwing around ideas to make it look less like a proxy but sadly if they go right up against the wall your pylon is against they can see your gateway. It's only 1 hex from being out of vision haha.
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Love the name Nice job ^.^
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On March 17 2011 15:32 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 15:26 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I like the way it sounds, I've been meaning to try out adels build, this will give me inspiration to learn it. but is his build still viable seeing how the meta game has shifted? (4 gate way more deadly now, along with blink stalkers or 1 base colossal etc...)
-3k+ master Yo, the first replay is against you 4 gating. LOL
Hahahahahaha.
On topic, this is a great idea. Adelscott build doesn't rely on a ramp to hold off anything so there's no disadvantage to having a gateway in your natural, I see no reason not to do this.
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On March 17 2011 15:02 Kira761 wrote:how about something like this so they dont freak out seeing no second pylon?
Scouting probe will check every courner of your base. If they see the pylon, its likely they see the gateway
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On March 17 2011 15:32 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 15:26 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I like the way it sounds, I've been meaning to try out adels build, this will give me inspiration to learn it. but is his build still viable seeing how the meta game has shifted? (4 gate way more deadly now, along with blink stalkers or 1 base colossal etc...)
-3k+ master Yo, the first replay is against you 4 gating. LOL
So, so funny. I actyally started cracking up in my Stat class. Small world!
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On March 17 2011 15:32 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 15:26 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I like the way it sounds, I've been meaning to try out adels build, this will give me inspiration to learn it. but is his build still viable seeing how the meta game has shifted? (4 gate way more deadly now, along with blink stalkers or 1 base colossal etc...)
-3k+ master Yo, the first replay is against you 4 gating. LOL
Hahaha epic win.
Love the idea, love the name, love the TL;DR. Although I'm no Adel-player I just wanted to say thank you for showing me something else I need to scout for in the future
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I don't think this is that good.
First of all the adelscott build is pretty poor and loses to 4 gate imo. It worked well when people didn't know it and just blindly did their build but when people adapt and get a few more stalkers before WG finishes (delaying it slightly) the adelscott build gets crushed. Only on very close spawns does it still have some value imo. The fundamental problem just lies in gathering gas so late which makes it weak to early stalker masses.
Building outside your ramp is also a bit iffy imo. The build is still given away by lack of gas and a lack of a 2nd pylon so I don't see much value in it. Whenever I see 1 gate in base but other stuff missing (pylon and/or gas) I just always do a slightly delayed 4 gate with plenty of boosting on my stalkers early on. There is no way you can defend that if you have such a late cybercore and got no gas early...
The mere existence of 4 gate keeps out-of-the-ordinary things like this in check. WHenever someone smells something fishy they can just do a safe 4 gate and crush this. Only exception here are really close spawns where the early zealot pressure actually does something...
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w/o a doubt gonna try this, looks interesting
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On March 17 2011 12:40 Venomsflame wrote:
Also, everyone(myself included) seems to think that it's the lack of gas that throws the idea away. Couldn't a variation be made that grabs the gas? Seeing 1 gate, gas will let the toss rest easy. He will assume the lack of pylon is a mistake or simply not notice at all. P players look for Gate count, gas, then go back to macro and have their probe dance around in base. Definitely an interesting idea!
Here's a variation that looks like a 4-gate, excepting the lack of 2nd pylon in the main. It's kind of an "ideal" build that I calculated, haven't tested it yet..
9 Pylon
11 Pylon (dans natural)
12 Chrono nexus
--
12 Gateway (main)
14 Gateway (natural)
16 Assimilator
16 Cybernetics core
17 Zealot
19 Move two probes to gas
20 Zealot
22 Pylon
--
23 Zealot
25 Chrono gateway x2
25 Move probe to gas
25 Zealot
27 Chrono gateway
27 Stalker
29 Stalker
32 Chrono gateway x2
Gives 20 probes, 4 zealots and 2 stalkers at 4:45. In practise, timings should be similar to Adel's no gas. There's constant probes production in the first two parts but probes are cut in the 3rd part.
Somebody scouting the main will notice a pylon, a gate, assimilator and cybcore at relatively normal timings. The lack of 2nd pylon and early warp research will be a strong hint at the build though, but it's easily overlooked ( 2nd pylon could be a proxy anywhere on the map, and it's not easy to see thet warp isn't being researched quickly since it's so standard.. ).
If anybody tests it with success, please let me know
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On March 17 2011 15:32 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2011 15:26 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
I like the way it sounds, I've been meaning to try out adels build, this will give me inspiration to learn it. but is his build still viable seeing how the meta game has shifted? (4 gate way more deadly now, along with blink stalkers or 1 base colossal etc...)
-3k+ master Yo, the first replay is against you 4 gating. LOL
-_-
lol, my friends beat me all the time with 2 gate openings on close spawn maps. I'll re-watch it later and give my victim analysis.
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On March 18 2011 00:45 Nyast wrote:
9 Pylon
11 Pylon (dans natural)
12 Chrono nexus
--
12 Gateway (main)
14 Gateway (natural)
16 Assimilator
16 Cybernetics core
17 Zealot
19 Move two probes to gas
20 Zealot
22 Pylon
--
23 Zealot
25 Chrono gateway x2
25 Move probe to gas
25 Zealot
27 Chrono gateway
27 Stalker
29 Stalker
32 Chrono gateway x2
Gives 20 probes, 4 zealots and 2 stalkers at 4:45. In practise, timings should be similar to Adel's no gas. There's constant probes production in the first two parts but probes are cut in the 3rd part.
There's no way you can go 9 pylon, 11 pylon, 12 gate, 14 gate, 16 gas, 16 core without cutting probes.
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I am going to start maka gating my 2nd gate when i do a triple stalker robo build, it's such a good idea considering that it takes away the builds weakness of being easily scouted, and if its scouted i am not behind in any way .
EDIT:i would proxy it towards the opponents base, because if you put it in the natural you would lose it to a 4gate rush.
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heh i've definitely proxied my entire base in my natural before in a pvp and just go standard 4 gate, result is opponent freaks out after seeing an empty main and gets a 2nd gate or a forge. result is that my 4 gate is much faster than theirs and i win.
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well, adel's build itself is already a huge coinflip (if not auto lose) since you have notthing to kill the scouting probe early on.
The sign of no gas and no 2nd pylon could easy indicate the proxy gate and the defender could simply react based on the chrono boost ammount saved up on the nexus. a skill player should be able to fence this off and just get ahead based on wrap tech.
The matter of proxy gate in adel build simply wont solve any problems in defending 4 gates. Infact it could put you in a huge disadv due to the fact that you wont have any FF adv once the cybercore finish. Losing pylon in the wraptech-finish-period is huge and losing a gate is even bigger. Unless you proxy 2 more gates at the enemy nature and 3 gates all-in, there should be no chance this working at high master =__=
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Ok, so im the victim of the first replay and here are my thoughts.....
TBH I thought you were just bad, (dont take offense lol, i think i was higher then you on ladder at the time, i dont think you were anywhere near 3k master's i dont really remember)
So when i scouted your base all i really noticed was that your cyber core was super late and you were chrono boosting zealots off of 1 gate. If i would have payed attention i probably would have noticed a missing pylon and scouted frantically for shenanigans...
Also Im not sure if this would work on larger maps as I would have completed Warpgates in time to hold off your push and counter attack.
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Btw, you should sometimes proxy your cybercore with this build. It's really good if you like to do proxy builds to proxy something perfectly normal on occasion too.
Not sure if it works 100% with this build as you're not building an assimilator and that's kind of a giveaway, but if you could sometimes fake an assimilator (and just cancel at like 90% to build your zealot) and use it to do the korean 4wg of zealots into their mineral line sometimes it would be a pretty powerful cheese.
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On March 18 2011 04:21 Anihc wrote:
heh i've definitely proxied my entire base in my natural before in a pvp and just go standard 4 gate, result is opponent freaks out after seeing an empty main and gets a 2nd gate or a forge. result is that my 4 gate is much faster than theirs and i win.
LMAO epic win.
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I think it's a really cool build, although I'm curious as to how you plan on defending your lone gateway and pylon if it gets scouted. It seems as if you need to move really out of position in order to make sure that your gateway and pylon don't get sniped.
And I understand that (so far) your half-proxy hasn't been scouted at all and the build has been very successful, but if your initial push does happen to be held off (and you meet an opponent who gets aggressive before you get your natural up), it seems like your fourth gate and pylon would be in trouble.
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On March 18 2011 05:42 AGIANTSMURF wrote:
Ok, so im the victim of the first replay and here are my thoughts.....
TBH I thought you were just bad, (dont take offense lol, i think i was higher then you on ladder at the time, i dont think you were anywhere near 3k master's i dont really remember)
So when i scouted your base all i really noticed was that your cyber core was super late and you were chrono boosting zealots off of 1 gate. If i would have payed attention i probably would have noticed a missing pylon and scouted frantically for shenanigans...
Also Im not sure if this would work on larger maps as I would have completed Warpgates in time to hold off your push and counter attack.
The game was during EVO tryouts, I was at 3K by that point I think.
On March 18 2011 07:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think it's a really cool build, although I'm curious as to how you plan on defending your lone gateway and pylon if it gets scouted. It seems as if you need to move really out of position in order to make sure that your gateway and pylon don't get sniped.
And I understand that (so far) your half-proxy hasn't been scouted at all and the build has been very successful, but if your initial push does happen to be held off (and you meet an opponent who gets aggressive before you get your natural up), it seems like your fourth gate and pylon would be in trouble.
Sometimes you have to make a decision. You either put down a nexus behind your first push or you put down additional gates to hold his counter 4 gate. If you put down a nexus, and you manage to hold that nexus with the gateway, then you're SIGNIFICANTLY ahead. By building the additional gateways first, you're giving up that pylon and gateway to survive. It all depends on how much damage you can do with that first group of units IMO
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Love this build. Only got one chance to try it out, and the opponent has stalker+sentry+zealot in his base which is no match for 4 zealots with 2 stalkers incoming.
Unfortunately he held it, my macro slipped and i lost but i can definitely see this keep working in high diamond-midish master.
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I LOVE PvP NOW. I thought it was awesome when Maka did it TvP and now it's so much fun for me PvP. The only issue I see in the future(other than it catching on and someone scouting it) is if someone is also doing Adel Scott or some other 2 gate build. They will match your aggression, know something's up and then search for the other gate. After finding the exposed gate you become behind on an otherwise even game. However still awesome and I will be using this simply because of the coolness factor. Now watch me in my shades 
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On March 18 2011 08:44 CanucksJC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2011 07:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I think it's a really cool build, although I'm curious as to how you plan on defending your lone gateway and pylon if it gets scouted. It seems as if you need to move really out of position in order to make sure that your gateway and pylon don't get sniped.
And I understand that (so far) your half-proxy hasn't been scouted at all and the build has been very successful, but if your initial push does happen to be held off (and you meet an opponent who gets aggressive before you get your natural up), it seems like your fourth gate and pylon would be in trouble. Sometimes you have to make a decision. You either put down a nexus behind your first push or you put down additional gates to hold his counter 4 gate. If you put down a nexus, and you manage to hold that nexus with the gateway, then you're SIGNIFICANTLY ahead. By building the additional gateways first, you're giving up that pylon and gateway to survive. It all depends on how much damage you can do with that first group of units IMO
That makes sense. I'm gonna fiddle around with this a lot and see how well it works out Thanks!
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Simple, cute, and innovative. I like. You didn't even utilize chronoboost to fully push this variation to full potential.
The thing is now that P players may be aware and scout more diligently
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On March 18 2011 09:25 prOpSaiton wrote:
Love this build. Only got one chance to try it out, and the opponent has stalker+sentry+zealot in his base which is no match for 4 zealots with 2 stalkers incoming.
Unfortunately he held it, my macro slipped and i lost but i can definitely see this keep working in high diamond-midish master.
I think the key to executing is getting your wp as soon as possible to defend counter 4 gate. I've had a lot of trouble against that doing this
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EPT
