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So we all know that some ladder maps have terrible imbalances, that's just a fact. GSL decided to do something about this and implement new custom maps they created( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=182734 )
I think all of us are wondering "what will Blizzard do?" These maps are publicly available for anyone to play on, but for players to continue to ladder, we will have to keep playing on all the blizzard ladder maps until Blizzard changes them. If they don't, it could be pretty terrible for blizzard hosted tournaments, since how people are invited is based off of their laddering points, which might force pros to play on outdated and poorly made maps.
I had checked the blizzard site to see if there was an appropriate way to ask about this in the contact section, but there was only places to send mail for policy questions and bugs. So, my dear gamers, is what do you think blizz will do about the ladder maps, and do you think that playing on the ladder may be completely extinct among pros in the future?
*edit* accidentally put this in strategy... can a mod move it?
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Blizzard shows a lot of support towards the GSL as its always in their news on the forums. This is a great thing because it may make blizzard change their maps also. Since such an influential organization has stated this and chosen new maps.
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The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage.
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On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage.
Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae.
Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss.
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On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss.
Of course Zerg > Terran in larger maps. But Protoss benefits even more than zerg from map size.
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Of course, Terran already have the most positional advantages with tanks and drops...
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How in the hell you changed this thread to be about balance. The OP made a legitamate concern that has nothing to do with balance but somehow people just managed to derail this quickly.
I think this should be talked about and I really hope blizzard is rethinking their maps. Best thing that could happen is that these GSL maps would be included into the ladder map pool and the removed maps removed.
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On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss.
Uhm.. You have flying dt's with range.
Marauders poop on everything that is ground..
Concusive 50+50 = HOLY OP BATMAN
Stim packs, lol. Please shut up.
User was warned for this post
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It's really simple really. Protoss has the most to benefit from large map size. Zerg second. Terran is most disadvantaged. It's just obvious fact. It's the same reason why Terran > Zerg on steppes of war.
We'll see how it plays out though.
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On January 10 2011 09:04 StephenS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss. Uhm.. You have flying dt's with range. Marauders poop on everything that is ground.. Concusive 50+50 = HOLY OP BATMAN Stim packs, lol. Please shut up.
haha, pretty sure the guy you're lashing out against is a zerg player but w/e.
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On January 10 2011 09:04 StephenS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss. Uhm.. You have flying dt's with range. Marauders poop on everything that is ground.. Concusive 50+50 = HOLY OP BATMAN Stim packs, lol. Please shut up.
If we're gonna talk about balance, I would say that how wide all the areas you pass thru are matters more, since collosi and tanks can rip anything to shreds in narrow areas. Wide open spaces let zerg get much better surrounds on any enemy units and protoss needs more sentries to FF things away and terran is more vulnerable in general.
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On January 10 2011 09:04 StephenS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss. Uhm.. You have flying dt's with range. Marauders poop on everything that is ground.. Concusive 50+50 = HOLY OP BATMAN Stim packs, lol. Please shut up.
18 posts. so u want no marauders, no stim pack, expensive concussive, no banshees.
maybe u forgot no tanks? jesus. Please dont post again in a while.
I hope they give us medivac speed buff. At least a research.
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well if blizzard is also listening to us (the players) then they will add these maps as well
I hope this will influence blizzard and replace the current map pool
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Australia8532 Posts
On January 10 2011 09:04 StephenS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss. Uhm.. You have flying dt's with range. Marauders poop on everything that is ground.. Concusive 50+50 = HOLY OP BATMAN Stim packs, lol. Please shut up.
Your balance whine is offensive.. go back to the bnet forums please.
I would imagine any GSL initiative would be Blizzard supported since it is a GomTV event which is affiliated with Blizzard. This is a positive sign that GSL are testing custom maps as they would do very little without Blizzard's go ahead..
All in all - things take time, and new maps are no differentl; they will come 
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On January 10 2011 09:07 link0 wrote:
It's really simple really. Protoss has the most to benefit from large map size. Zerg second. Terran is most disadvantaged. It's just obvious fact. It's the same reason why Terran > Zerg on steppes of war.
We'll see how it plays out though.
hmm, im inclined to agree with you, but on the other hand larger maps maybe allow terrans to get away with inbase OCs. like that 4 OC build....
it takes some time until an inbase OC pays for itself, but after that it makes the terran eco much much stronger. but that 4OC build clearly shows that the terran eco can very well be booming and getting out of hand... in the end zergs and protoss have to invest more supply into workers to be economically on par with terrans. thats an advantage terrans shouldnt disregard on large macro maps...
also hellions and drops are typically suited to macro games with multiple bases and so on. the more area the opponent controls, the more options u have for harass. and terran has the best harassment arsenal.
i think the terran race has it in it to be successful on larger maps aswell. but it will undoubtedly require a change of playstyle. to sum it up: bitbybit is completely fucked with these new maps. jinro will probably love them. which in my eyes is a good thing.
what will be the deciding aspect of the new maps for terran imho is not the size of the maps, its the openness and the cliffyness.
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I'm afraid I don't have a link to support it but big'ol Dustin Bowder has said a few times, and on the record, that he expects turnys and pros will use a dif map pool than the ladder. It actually what he wants. I recall his words being that they don't want overly techincal maps in ladder...
IMO I'd be shocked to see blizzard put anything but inhouse maps up on b.net. But we'll see what we see.
edit
Really only blizcon was based on ladder points and only for usa I think ,at least not all regions for sure.
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On January 10 2011 09:59 Galleon.frigate wrote:
I'm afraid I don't have a link to support it but big'ol Dustin Bowder has said a few times, and on the record, that he expects turnys and pros will use a dif map pool than the ladder. It actually what he wants. I recall his words being that they don't want overly techincal maps in ladder...
IMO I'd be shocked to see blizzard put anything but inhouse maps up on b.net. But we'll see what we see.
well, why not use different mappools for different leagues? like.... bronze to gold/platinum use the old, simple maps to appease the noobs, diamond gets to play the larger macro maps from the gsl, and also has more frequent map switches.
this way the good players can play more technical, interesting macro maps and get to stay intouch with the mapchanges of the gsl to keep things interesting while the bad or new players can play on a stable and simple mappool.
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Wow such a terrible thread de-railment that this is as bad as the bnet forums.
You can say anything you want about balance on large maps but whatever you say is pure theorycrafting since we don't have any large maps to begin with.
So, my dear gamers, is what do you think blizz will do about the ladder maps, and do you think that playing on the ladder may be completely extinct among pros in the future?
Here's the OP's actual question, the rest of you talking about balance should STFU, there's hundreds of other threads to whine about balance.
TBH I think the only thing the ladder has going for itself for a pro is that you can fight a random player any time, and it's a best of one, so there wouldn't be the mind games going on that you can see with practice partners and team games. With Blizzard using ladder points for blizcon invitations it will be a complete mess as it will force pros to grind on the ladder instead of more productive methods of practice. Basically if Blizzard keeps this up SC2 will be FUBAR. I'm pretty sure one of the latest SotG touches on this issue really well.
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On January 10 2011 09:04 StephenS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:40 monitor wrote:On January 10 2011 07:38 link0 wrote:
The bigger the map, the more likely Protoss will win because warp-gates ignore the defender's advantage. Protoss has warp gates, but Zerg has the advantage of expanding and rebuilding their army MUCH faster from larvae. Overall, I feel like Terran is at a loss. Uhm.. You have flying dt's with range. Marauders poop on everything that is ground.. Concusive 50+50 = HOLY OP BATMAN Stim packs, lol. Please shut up.
None of those things you mentioned are OP, or related to the OP.
@OP: I was thinking this same thing today. I just massed games with a bunch of friends on these new maps and I'm loving them. I really think this is going to make a huge influence on how SC2 will turn out. These much better and more macro style BW like maps will in turn make SC2 a much better game and force less of all these all ins that are appearing on the super small blizzard maps.
Since the GSL is so closely looked at by Blizzard I think we will shortly see some map changes.
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Australia8532 Posts
On January 10 2011 10:04 Geovu wrote:Wow such a terrible thread de-railment that this is as bad as the bnet forums. You can say anything you want about balance on large maps but whatever you say is pure theorycrafting since we don't have any large maps to begin with. Show nested quote + So, my dear gamers, is what do you think blizz will do about the ladder maps, and do you think that playing on the ladder may be completely extinct among pros in the future? Here's the OP's actual question, the rest of you talking about balance should STFU, there's hundreds of other threads to whine about balance. TBH I think the only thing the ladder has going for itself for a pro is that you can fight a random player any time, and it's a best of one, so there wouldn't be the mind games going on that you can see with practice partners and team games. With Blizzard using ladder points for blizcon invitations it will be a complete mess as it will force pros to grind on the ladder instead of more productive methods of practice. Basically if Blizzard keeps this up SC2 will be FUBAR. I'm pretty sure one of the latest SotG touches on this issue really well.
Your refocus is appreciated.
I doubt the ladder would become extinct for pros; i would imagine Blizzard would do a lot to prevent this if it thought this was a reality.
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EPT
