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I just finished a game ZvP where the protoss scouted my slower pool and decided to cannon contain. This was the first time I'd faced a cannon contain and pulled WAAAAAAAAAY too many drones off the line to stop him, which don't even manage to kill a pylon. He dumps lots of resources into the contain so I out-econ him eventually, but this is a silver level match and I feel that a better player would have had the experience to know "Oh, he's contained in his base, I should expand." It took me several minutes to get an expo up and running as I had to get drop tech and fast ovvies to drop drones in one of the sneaky expos. He techs up to carriers and a mothership, for some reason not attacking all at once.
Surely there are QUICKER ways to win a game, especially since I played horribly (the cannon contain really threw me for a loop early game and I never seemed to hit my stride), but he played horribly too. Taking the Rich expo helped him out but he never even tried to defend it? Or retake it? He could have had three or four bases by the time I moved out with Mutas, and throwing a couple phoenixes in his stargate queue would have let him hunt down my ovvies and supply block me. The only things that are good at killing carriers are gas-heavy, so keeping me contained to one base (thus two gas) and then going big scary units that take lots of gas to kill seems to be an effective strategy, assuming you can keep the contain.
Here's the replay: http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/93204-1v1-protoss-zerg-steppes-of-war I'm not interested in analysis of gameplay on this one, as I'm aware we both played horribly, but just discussing the possibilities of play by more skilled players.
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I love how he opted for not 2 cannons but 5. Creep tumor your way to the ramp and drop a couple of spine crawlers, using the high ground advantage they shouldnt get hit. And he should be weaker since he dropped so much time and money into extra pylons and cannons
Edit : wow he went for 10 cannons... lol
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It's a very good example of a bad player (the Toss) getting wins out by cheesing. It'd be pretty hard to argue that the Toss player was the better player.
That aside, I'd say that it's a somewhat viable strategy, just need to waste less resources on it and definitely expo. Don't know how it'd work against high level as I'm ... not high level.
Also, I know you don't want analysis but, just a suggestion. When scouting, every once in a while you should just set up a bunch of move waypoints for your drone so you can macro. Because that pool was later than it ever should be.
His messages to you were hella hilarious
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"IF UR GAY WIN THIS GAME"
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On October 20 2010 08:04 SMoneyMonkey wrote:
It's a very good example of a bad player (the Toss) getting wins out by cheesing. It'd be pretty hard to argue that the Toss player was the better player.
That aside, I'd say that it's a somewhat viable strategy, just need to waste less resources on it and definitely expo. Don't know how it'd work against high level as I'm ... not high level.
Also, I know you don't want analysis but, just a suggestion. When scouting, every once in a while you should just set up a bunch of move waypoints for your drone so you can macro. Because that pool was later than it ever should be.
His messages to you were hella hilarious
It's not cheese. It's also done pretty often pvz, forge first, 2 pylons on ramp and a cannon.
You need to scout at atleast 10 if you're not doing so already. If you see a forge go down, immediately bring a drone and have him patrol the bottom of your ramp and make sure that drone doesn't die. That's pretty much all you need to do until you have lings out.
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You don't even need to, use roaches to hit the pylon wall off from the high ground and the problem is solved.
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On October 20 2010 08:57 Darkstar_X wrote:
You don't even need to, use roaches to hit the pylon wall off from the high ground and the problem is solved.
You obviously didn't watch the replay. I did make roaches to do just that and they still got sniped by the cannons. Also: this isn't about the in-game analysis, we both played very poorly, it's about the strategy!
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That game was hilarious. That protoss guy was seriously stylish too...a bajillion cannons at your ramp into dedicated 1 base pure carrier. The bm at the end was also pretty genius.
But yeah, do what AlaskaYoung says and maybe get an earlier pool next time on such a small maps.
You must have felt so good when you baneling dropped onto all his stacked probes :D
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I just hate the overpool opening so much. I feel like I'm cutting econ to prepare for something that 70% of the time just won't happen, then it's a catch up race the rest of the game. I'd rather macro too much, have to drone-micro and queen my way out of early aggression, then put up some spines and a few lings and power drone to victory.
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anything above 2 cannons is a complete and utter waste of resources for protoss. If hes got that many cannons, just make 1 spinecrawler and go mutals and fly to his base. If its 1 or 2, you can either go roaches or spread creep and kill the pylon with spine crawler. This contain is not all that effective since the recent patch.
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cool things you can do are, a nydus worm into his base, a proxxy hatch in his base (if he doesnt scout you win - works better on maps with big base, eg LT and BS) also if you get your timing right, you can get a drone on the place where he blocks and just patrol so he cant build, if he attacks your drone just bring out another one.
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contain with cannons is a dead strategy that used to be good. range 4 roaches now prevent that from happening. just make roaches and snipe the pylons.
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On October 20 2010 15:07 johngalt90 wrote:
contain with cannons is a dead strategy that used to be good. range 4 roaches now prevent that from happening. just make roaches and snipe the pylons.
Map dependent. Some maps, you can get them with roaches easier than others.
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Muta is not a great response to this. If they cannon'd YOUR base. they can cannon THEIR base. 1 base muta in response to a cannon at natural is still 1 base muta, shitty. THe roach on the other hand is an extremely cost effective unit capable of busting the toss. The resources spent in cannons will leave him far enough behind that your 1 base roach will be stronger than his 1 base play. If he expanded, you can probably still bust him with a strong enough 1 base play (especially with roach). If he expanded with a ton of cannons what makes u think mutas would work? If he expanded with a bunch of cannons you will still have an army advantage and can probably double expand.
The biggest threat to you in midgame is the 6-8 gate pushes that come from a protoss FE style. Ill let you figure out how to stop that one as i like to FE into 6 gate and its very seldom stopped.
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On October 20 2010 15:55 Jayrod wrote:
Muta is not a great response to this. If they cannon'd YOUR base. they can cannon THEIR base. 1 base muta in response to a cannon at natural is still 1 base muta, shitty. THe roach on the other hand is an extremely cost effective unit capable of busting the toss. The resources spent in cannons will leave him far enough behind that your 1 base roach will be stronger than his 1 base play. If he expanded, you can probably still bust him with a strong enough 1 base play (especially with roach). If he expanded with a ton of cannons what makes u think mutas would work? If he expanded with a bunch of cannons you will still have an army advantage and can probably double expand.
The biggest threat to you in midgame is the 6-8 gate pushes that come from a protoss FE style. Ill let you figure out how to stop that one as i like to FE into 6 gate and its very seldom stopped.
Pretty sure this entire post is OT, isn't it? If you read the OP (and at least once in the course of the thread), I'm not looking for gameplay advice and admitted that my play was awful. We're talking about the strategy here, people, not the individual game.
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does this still works after roaches have 4 range ?
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EPT
