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I v made some very good strategey, want u to test it, and to tell how to improve.
9 rax (wall)
2 workers
11 gas
the gas will be completed at the same time as rax. so after rax rdy:
11 orbital comand, transit two workers to gas (3 workers at gas totally)
11 supply (u build it with same worker which finishe rax), 11 tech lab
now build two more workers and reaper, u ll have 13 workers and reaper = 14 supply.
(14 doble rax) now build two more rax
build marine and make stimpack
after that, build marines and scv's non stop with priority to marines
when 2 rax rdy = make reactors to both and produce mass marines
after u queved two reactors = remove one scv from gas
after u ll get 100 gas = remove all scv's from gas
when stimpack rdy, queve combat shields and move in attack and kill your opponent,
and there i have some troble. in my tactics i wanna to build expo and then go hard tech or air, but i cant get 400 minerals not stopping marines producing a bit.
what can u suggest?
ps u need to send scout early enogh, with idea that reaper must know exactly when to go after it appeares, it depends on map, but probably u ll need to send scout some time before rax completed (and dont send scout on duel 1x1 maps)
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What race is this against? What is the game time you begin your push? With how many units?
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Do you have any replays? What has countered this when you attempt it?
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its vs all races, but it works better with zerg or toss.
the time i begin push is at about 6 mins, with about 13 rines with stim and reaper (if reaper survived), also u can take about 2 scv's or more, cas your income is more then u need to support 2 reactor rax and one techlab rax with constatnt 5 rines production.
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On September 16 2010 10:11 Melancholia wrote:
Do you have any replays? What has countered this when you attempt it?
i dont have replays cas i still didnt buy sc2, but i was didamond in beta, and was using similar tactic. i was making six raxes without gas and add ons, and no stimpack.
but i think that this new tactic is much better.
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i would suggest doing a marine/marauder mix since marines are so fragile. Also since you'd be getting marauders too you could have two techlabs to quickly get stim, shield, and shells.
Also you might want to not use reactors because they cost 50/50 and take 40 secs to build. you might as well just build more barracks, or maybe only one reactor. Like 2 techlabs, 1 reactor, 1 plain rax.
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possible counters which i see:
zerg - 1. fast expand and mass lings 2. fast expand and sankens
toss - 4 gates
terran - bunker (hm.. it will be hard for terran to defend without bunker.. specially if tank will be nerfed)
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On September 16 2010 10:18 SpiciestZerg wrote:
i would suggest doing a marine/marauder mix since marines are so fragile. Also since you'd be getting marauders too you could have two techlabs to quickly get stim, shield, and shells.
Also you might want to not use reactors because they cost 50/50 and take 40 secs to build. you might as well just build more barracks, or maybe only one reactor. Like 2 techlabs, 1 reactor, 1 plain rax.
reactor is better cas it costs 50/50 which is 100 totally, when rax are 150+scv time (about 30 minerals) = 180 totally.
i dont like marauders cas they have 2x less firepower vs light and they cant attack air. i make mass rines with idea to place expo and deny enemy expo, with transit to some heavy units like BC's or Thors/Tanks, then i ll dont need marauders, cas marine air attack will be good support vs hard air.
btw marines+thors or rines+bc's= universal army which attack both air and ground very good.
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I know my bud does a unrefined 4 rax rine build.
Point being that he says mass rines are pretty darn strong early game VP and VZ.
I'll give this build a shot.
Why the reaper? I feel like I would rather have faster upgrades then a reaper, unless you are playing in the dark, where the scouting would be useful. or just 1 marauder to tank damage.
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I have this feeling this is more of a troll post than anything.
Its an unrefined all-in-ish (stopping scv production at 14 ...) build by a first poster that is horribly unspecific and gets shut down by several popular playstyles (for example protoss can shut this down with pretty much everything that involves sentries with decent ff and stalkers, terrans just place a bunker or get a very fast siege tank and zerg just need a nice surround as with all early bio-agression)
Apart from that mass marine openings have been discussed over and over already with stim and without. Dont think there was any need to create a new topic over this.
Sorry but thats my impression of this.
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On September 16 2010 10:40 Icemind wrote:
I have this feeling this is more of a troll post than anything.
Its an unrefined all-in-ish (stopping scv production at 14 ...) build by a first poster that is horribly unspecific and gets shut down by several popular playstyles (for example protoss can shut this down with pretty much everything that involves sentries with decent ff and stalkers, terrans just place a bunker or get a very fast siege tank and zerg just need a nice surround as with all early bio-agression)
Apart from that mass marine openings have been discussed over and over already with stim and without. Dont think there was any need to create a new topic over this.
Sorry but thats my impression of this.
I think the biggest reason to not believe anything in his post is this part:
On September 16 2010 10:18 MegaTerran wrote:
i dont have replays cas i still didnt buy sc2, but i was didamond in beta, and was using similar tactic.
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Thats not all in, scv producing stops not much, and i just use less gas and have mule. If rush failes then u just make expo and go Battle Cruiser. If push sucess = fast win. All in is stategy which loses if push failes.
2 sentry cant stop push, they just can give u some time..
u can not to belive me that i was in diamond, but just test my tactics on ladder and make your own decision about its effectivness
reaper is needed for focring zerg to make more zerglings than drones which then will give u better sutiation when marines arrive. also reaper is needed to take xel nagas and preventing opponent from scouting your attack.
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On September 16 2010 10:25 MegaTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 16 2010 10:18 SpiciestZerg wrote:
i would suggest doing a marine/marauder mix since marines are so fragile. Also since you'd be getting marauders too you could have two techlabs to quickly get stim, shield, and shells.
Also you might want to not use reactors because they cost 50/50 and take 40 secs to build. you might as well just build more barracks, or maybe only one reactor. Like 2 techlabs, 1 reactor, 1 plain rax.
reactor is better cas it costs 50/50 which is 100 totally, when rax are 150+scv time (about 30 minerals) = 180 totally. i dont like marauders cas they have 2x less firepower vs light and they cant attack air. i make mass rines with idea to place expo and deny enemy expo, with transit to some heavy units like BC's or Thors/Tanks, then i ll dont need marauders, cas marine air attack will be good support vs hard air. btw marines+thors or rines+bc's= universal army which attack both air and ground very good.
marauders have much better health, counter armored units, and have concussive shells to slow (very important vs roaches, stalkers, zealots) and they let your marines survive more overall, and you can still have enough marines to deal with air.
50 gas>100 minerals usually. also i suggested only one plain barracks because a third techlab or 2nd reactor would be too much.
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marauders have much better health, counter armored units, and have concussive shells to slow (very important vs roaches, stalkers, zealots) and they let your marines survive more overall, and you can still have enough marines to deal with air.
50 gas>100 minerals usually. also i suggested only one plain barracks because a third techlab or 2nd reactor would be too much.
marauder cost is 125 and it has same dps with light as one marine. 2 marines cost is 100, they have 2x dps vs light then 1 marauder, and their summury hp is 90 (110 vs combat shields), which is not so far from marauder 125 hp.
concussive shells is not free, also it requieres 2nd tech lab to get stimpack, shield and concussive early.
but in my tactics 1 tech lab is needed, so if u so like marauders u can build them from that rax, but u ll have less money for exp then and less air defence.
50 gas> 100 minerals when u use gas units, but i dont, i need minerals for exp and marines much more then gas.
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so have anyone tried that, did u like it?
i was thinkin about that build more, and i got the idea, that after u start 2nd command center u need to start coollecting gas and build factory. thats obvious, but i want that idea to be said. so:
u start 2nd CC => start collect gas from two gases. (before that non workers are on gas - we removed all)
btw i like to build CC on HG, then make OC, then drop mule, and only after that fly to natrual. what do u think about that?
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Why do you build a nine rax? Feels like your economy will be too bad to recover if it fails. Thats why its an all - in.
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Calgary26004 Posts
Time to clean house Not only is this build order not well thought out, there is no explanation of why it's good, how to follow up, possible weaknesses, or even what race to use it against.
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EPT
