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W T F
Seriously 4 gate is a pain in my nuts. How is it a Toss player can put down that many Stalkers Zealots and a 2 sentry that quick.
Even with my fastest builds I can possibly deal with a 4 gate stalker push. SO PLEASE!!! all you smart people out there give me some advice.
(I guess I'm saying theirs no 15m win against 4 gate for Terran)
- This is what I have tried or observed. -
If I 3 rack marauder 1 stupid void ray comes out and there goes my main, witch is comical since Stalkers shoot air so I can return the favor with a banshee. (your going to say use marines....)
(I do believe in a mixed force and am not ruling out any units just stating that the chips are stacked against Terran's catalog in this situation.)
Marines are a pore choice since zealots rape them and most 4 gates has like at least 6 zealots.
Marauders are only effective against the stalkers and can not hit air(so VR's come out and rape).
My Tanks only hold there ground if I have a positional advantage(Not hard to get but annoying this type of play is required to deal with what is in a way an economy/macro issue.)
Hellions are only good against the zealots with micro and open field and the stalkers 1 shot them. again econ issue being solved with micro, no a fan.
Fast Tech Thor's just get out maneuvered and out gunned by the cheaper stalkers.
Fast Tech BC's just get eaten alive by the stalkers and have similar issues the Thors have
I could turtle but at that point its practically loss since the toss player will spread like wild fire and warp in backup units any time I even try some thing or push over my main.
- What I have found some what effective -
Ghosts
EMP makes stalker spam softer but I can get enough firepower out along with the ghosts in time to make a difference. The only way I win these games is having them play out 40m's and 5 nukes later along with enough tanks and Planetary fortresses with missile turrets to make the Maginot Line look like a bake sale.
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Simply put, tier 1 terran unit > tier 1 protoss unit. A MM ball of equal resources will straight out rape the protoss gateway ball
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On August 19 2010 02:01 mkchoi0801 wrote:
Simply put, tier 1 terran unit > tier 1 protoss unit. A MM ball of equal resources will straight out rape the protoss gateway ball
so your saying if I scout a 4 gate I should just spam MM?
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ok. This is typed from my phone so excuse any errors. Im a 800 pt diamond terran, and let me say that this build is not impossible to deal with. The number one thing to do is scout. I understand that sometimes you will be completely denied, but try as hard as you can. Basically my standard against protoss is standard 12 rax 13 gas. Pump 3ish marines out of your first rax, and dont be afraid to throw down a bunker if the toss is being really aggressive. Save up 300 mins when you are safe(ish) and throw down two more rax. When the rax is complete pump out one more round of marines. You should now have 5-8 marines and be safe from voids (with good reaction time) and with a bunker he shouldnt be able to break your ramp. From here i either go 1 reactor 2 tech, or 3 tech depending on my scout. Throw up a ghost academy and get stim after a round of mauds/marines. Pump out one ghost and you can start to take some map control. From here you can either push -> expand OR if the toss is still on one base, feel free to tech to medivacs. From here macro as usual. This build is very safe and will easily defend most 4 gate builds. This should at least get you to the midgame. If this doesnt work, simply work on your macro and dont be afraid to throw down bunkers! Hope this helps, feel free to ask any questionss  sorry for wall of text.
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Yea, 4 warpgate shouldn't really be a problem for you as terran
There will be a timeframe where his army can potentially take yours out, but just turtle behind your ramp/wall and that timeframe will pass as your army reaches critical mass versus gateway tier units
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I'm assuming you're talking about the 4 gate where they dont do pylons in your base. In which case this shouldn't be a problem for you since as mkchoi said terran tier1 >> than toss tier1 (ask the toss in this mutha) Yeah zealots can beat your marines, but you should have a wall on your ramp that you are hiding behind making zealots worth dip. Mix Marines and marauders at a 5:2 ratio approx using your extra gas for stims, concussion shells and then moving to factory starport or ghost route blah blah blah.
The important thing to remember is that as your army grows(both you and the toss), zealots become more and more ineffective, even with charge, they will not beat a marine/marauder group with stims of equal value, even in the best case scenario (spread out thinly, marines in the front of the group etc.). I've run this test a number of times and thats how it works out.
So, yeah, wall up, build a bioball, then add tanks n medivacs and move out slowly, try not to let toss catch you from behind.
#edit
As for the stalker situation, 8 marauders on the ramp with your marines will stop all the stalkers in the world. This stalker void ray transition combo is good against terran players because it tries to trick you into making too many marauders. Like I said 5 marines for every 2 marauders. Or you can go 3 marines per marauder too if his army is mixed.
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On August 19 2010 02:19 h4xh4xh4x wrote:ok. This is typed from my phone so excuse any errors. Im a 800 pt diamond terran, and let me say that this build is not impossible to deal with. The number one thing to do is scout. I understand that sometimes you will be completely denied, but try as hard as you can. Basically my standard against protoss is standard 12 rax 13 gas. Pump 3ish marines out of your first rax, and dont be afraid to throw down a bunker if the toss is being really aggressive. Save up 300 mins when you are safe(ish) and throw down two more rax. When the rax is complete pump out one more round of marines. You should now have 5-8 marines and be safe from voids (with good reaction time) and with a bunker he shouldnt be able to break your ramp. From here i either go 1 reactor 2 tech, or 3 tech depending on my scout. Throw up a ghost academy and get stim after a round of mauds/marines. Pump out one ghost and you can start to take some map control. From here you can either push -> expand OR if the toss is still on one base, feel free to tech to medivacs. From here macro as usual. This build is very safe and will easily defend most 4 gate builds. This should at least get you to the midgame. If this doesnt work, simply work on your macro and dont be afraid to throw down bunkers! Hope this helps, feel free to ask any questionss sorry for wall of text.
I'm actualy on my iPhone ATM as well
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I seem to do fine with 2 tech lab + 1 reactor + EMP :D
Once I get siege, throw in some tanks and just creep him. (Bunkers help).
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I don't see how a reactor/2-tech lab build loses to this. Marauders destroy stalkers and marines destroy void rays. It takes the barest of micro and then you win the game because 4-gate has no real transition.
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On August 19 2010 02:19 h4xh4xh4x wrote:ok. This is typed from my phone so excuse any errors. Im a 800 pt diamond terran, and let me say that this build is not impossible to deal with. The number one thing to do is scout. I understand that sometimes you will be completely denied, but try as hard as you can. Basically my standard against protoss is standard 12 rax 13 gas. Pump 3ish marines out of your first rax, and dont be afraid to throw down a bunker if the toss is being really aggressive. Save up 300 mins when you are safe(ish) and throw down two more rax. When the rax is complete pump out one more round of marines. You should now have 5-8 marines and be safe from voids (with good reaction time) and with a bunker he shouldnt be able to break your ramp. From here i either go 1 reactor 2 tech, or 3 tech depending on my scout. Throw up a ghost academy and get stim after a round of mauds/marines. Pump out one ghost and you can start to take some map control. From here you can either push -> expand OR if the toss is still on one base, feel free to tech to medivacs. From here macro as usual. This build is very safe and will easily defend most 4 gate builds. This should at least get you to the midgame. If this doesnt work, simply work on your macro and dont be afraid to throw down bunkers! Hope this helps, feel free to ask any questionss sorry for wall of text.
Yeah, this pretty much sums it up.. I haven't had my 4 Gate work against a Terran in forever. One thing I would add is EMP. So friggin good and it helps against HTs too.
Edit: whoops he said that already too lol. L2R me. Another way to scout for 4 gate is just build one reaper and run around his base, put first priority on scouting and then worry about probe kills etc.
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I like these replys. I think my issue is I'm a 1/1/1 junkie and want to have such a mixed force by 12m mark and these stalker nuts are throwing me off.
Yea all my bitching aside Terran T1 is powerfull but it's like a force multiplier thing, you need a lot to make the truely effective.
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There are plenty of situations where the scan is totally worth the minerals you're sacrificing to not use MULE, and I think 4 gate is one of them. if you're doing 1:1:1, scout him with scan or a reaper when your factory finishes and if you see lotsa gateways, throw up an extra rax instead of starport and begin a bioball w/ a tank or 2.
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ok, if you DONT scout the 4 gate with your first initial scout i recommend you scouting once again after 18 supply or so when you get your orbital. because thats about the time the toss player will get their 4 gate and THATS when they have hardly any units. so about that time you should have like 2 racks's down and you should maybe go pump out like 8/10 marauders and push out and maybe set a contain with a bunker outside his base because we all know marauders just own gateway units in a straight up battle. BUT ALWAYS KEEP SCOUTING THE MAP. it just takes 1 probe to ruin your day... -_-
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Yea I need to get better at scouting and knowing what to look for becase ive beenplaying 111 since low gold and I started in silver and am Now upper platinum and most of my wins have been macro choke outs our just macro army size wins. I have realy good combat reactions to new troops or army choices but I learn all this as I'm fighting. My micro is good but my macro suffers and I Tend to write off troops if I know macro home front choices will pan out better then a little micro magic.
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Wow, can't remember last time I saw any P 4 gate a T. 3 rax mm , 1-1-1> 4 gate, and 4 gate transitions are very bad as well. Basically any T build without FE beats 4 gate easily, pretty sure you can FE and be safe as well.
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The issue I'm having with 111 is on open ground by the time I have one tank They have an army of stalker zealot that makes my shut look like chump change. I need to yabot some three rack, but my 111 build is like air tight on timings.
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The only map I 4gate vs T is blistering sands. Really hard for terran to hold off there
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I love That map, good tank parking spots, nice back door to nock down, strong choke at the natural, and you can keep them off the back door with two tanks while your main force flanks, or you reaper there back door and run a pack of hellions into there and then post up tanks at the tower and hammer yhr course assault.
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If you're really havin an issue holdin off early P aggression, build a bunker. They're free and they provide a LOT of backup, especially at your ramp/wall.
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You can just go for cloak banshees while using your 1-1-1 Build (DestinyCloudFirst ftw!) and they will have no robo up to get obs.
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EPT
