4 Warpgate All in attack is a protoss strategy which is giving me headackes. It seems to me that it is a pretty easy strategy to pull off for the Protoss which is pretty dificult to counter. Every protoss I am encountering as of late seems to do only this build, and the funny part is, when their attack fails they seem to be lost and cannot transition properly from it.
However the more skilled ones which can get better timings on their attack are giving me a real hard time. I cannot understand the unit composition I should get out in order to defend this. I have tried all speedlings, hydras, speed roaches, nothing seems solid.
Here are a couple of my recent games, played at around 400 rating in Diamond League.
Watch the replays and note two things: The timing the attack reaches you, and the amount of probes they have. What you need to do is have slightly more harvesters, and an adequate (if only barely) defensive force to deal with the attack. You fight it off, then you have won. I find lings + 5 spinecrawlers (preferably all together but don't leave places they can attack your expo) and hydras popping usually during or just before the attack handles it well after going a 14pool 15hatch or similar build. Also don't be afraid to sacrifice your expo, pulling off all drones ect ect. if you absolutely have to and setting up a nice choke with crawlers at your main, the enemy's 26 harvesters will not keep their attack up for long if you are 30+ drones as your hydras pop, then you can take the expo back and leapfrog the spinecrawlers forward with hydra support. Hope it helped somewhat at least.
Having a couple of queens at the expo with the spine crawlers has helped me survive a couple of times. Heals on the crawlers, spreading more creep, and the added defense is handy.
I'm still having trouble defending against this build though so I'm interested to see what other folks suggest.
Actually, you don't even need to have more drones than the protoss when you switch to unit production! Zerg can produce workers at such an obscene rate, that if you hold off the push and are on 2 base, you'll overpower the protoss in economy in no time!
I've seen roaches and hydras work in other replays - Idra held off one of Huk's 4 warpage all-ins while teching to hydra on two bases, and one of Husky's video advocates throwing down a roach warren as soon as you scout the 4-warpgate rush. The key though is to sac an overlord in their base to scout the all-in (somewhere around when your lair is starting/mid-way), then making sure you survive the incoming push at all costs. 3-4 spinecrawlers, a handful of lings, and roaches is my preference, especially if you keep the lings out on the map to flank the stalkers/sentries.
4 gate is extremely difficult for me to counter as well. It's especially difficult on the new maps with poorly-done natural expansions. A couple things that seem to work most for me...
If it's a map with a normal expansion that I feel is fairly defensible (LT, etc), I've started doing a regular fast expansion and just massing zergling. I get Lair tech but don't really commit to Hydralisk until after the first push by P has happened. Spines + zergling + an extra Queen or two seem to be able to hold off all 4 gate pushes if you're positioned right. I even mix in baneling sometimes. If you fend it off switch into full-on Hydra production and you can often times counter and win right there.
If it's Delta Quadrant I've been trying something new. I've been using Sen's 1 base muta with an early creep tumor and spines at my ramp. Zergling + 2 Queens + a couple spines + Mutalisks seem to be able to hold off any 4 gate push at your main ramp. You should also be taking your blocked natural about the time the 4 gate push hits you as well, so if you repel it your in great shape. Push out and take your 3rd right after repelling the push, harrassing with mutas to keep him behind. From there you should be able to win the macro game.
There are still some maps that I just haven't figured out a viable counter for, such as Blistering Sands and close position Metalopolis.
IMO the best thing you can do if you scout 4gates (which hopefully you can) is mass ling or mass ling/roach if you decided to transition to roach. And I am talking major, major mass. Deny any probe scouting, and deny any proxy pylon for warping in. Prepare to run in the P's base if he leaves. And prepare to mass swarm around an army as they get near your base.
(I win lots of games with 4gate but one thing I see is that they scout my 4gates and yet still make drones/tech. Just stop making drones/tech, and make lings.)
And don't try making spine crawlers when your expo isn't right in front of your main. Just don't, it's silly. I will go around it.
take this with a grain of salt though, i play protoss not zerg - so just my 2 cents
I usually start with 2 spines at my nat and add on 3 spines if my sacrificial ling scouts a 4 gate push. I particularly like staying ling/spines until hydras pop so when I repel the 4 gate, I can push ahead with my lings while they're retreating and pick off some units or force some action at the main which gives me more time to get my eco back up.
Watched your replays. I'm going to focus on the metalopolis one because your opponent was clearly well-practiced in doing the 4-gate push. He had the build-order execution down to the probe (there was a ~20 probe count on minerals, timed gateway build with warpgate research, and a clear commitment to 4G all-in).
Generally the idea is to be on the defensive when you're fast expanding. Your initial speedling build on metalopolis was a good idea, except it would've been more economical to go after probes instead of his stalker.
The initial speedling build made your expansion slower, delaying your drone transfer to new minerals, and subsequently delaying your spine crawler placement. Had the toss pushed in a bit sooner (which he could), he could have caught two of your spine crawlers still building.
When he made the initial push you weren't paying attention and unnecessarily lost 2~3 roaches too early. The spine crawler placement should be that of a concave facing outwards, and not encircling your hatchery (you can always block your ramp with roaches if he decides to force his way into your main).
You were in a good position to send drones to your expo after you fended off the first wave, but you over-commit your roaches to the chase and ended up taking too much flak from microed-stalkers. The protoss made a blunder when he decided to warp in a total stalker army when he lost his zealots. You probably caught onto this and made some lings to counter; however, I felt that you could have mass lings to begin with had you made more attempts to scout his army composition...etc. Losing all those roaches really put a drain on your economy especially since you had a lower worker count than the protoss.
Thanks for your replies. I believe that a build so easy to pull off like this one, should have an easy counter if scouted. Right now, slight miss micro-s from Z's part can cost you the game, and all P has to do is spam units.
I will try more zerglings, but nothing will stop P from spamming Zealots when seing my composition. Plus, he can delay his attack and get a bigger ball against which Zerglings are exponentially weaker.
Even more, depending on the layout of your natural, you cannot cover your hatch with spinecrawlers effectively. I've had games where P just ignored my spinecrawlers and sniped the hatch from range. I cant cover all possible angles.
Heya, I played a game that was pretty textbook to countering a 4gate/4gate variation, have a look-see at the rep and tell me what you think. Surprisingly, the HDStarcraft thing is incredibly accurate. But be prepared to macro your balls off, you need to do well in either staying up with him on supply or doing better than him to beat the push.
I ended up watching the replay, and I'm aware of his 30 apm lol, but still, 4gate isn't that hard to manage. Yes, there were a lot of mistakes, but still, this is atleast some sort of guideline to follow when playing 4gate.
EDIT: Also, search next time, there are probably a billion threads on 4gate.
EPT
