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Burrowing is a very useful spell that see zerg players neglect alot it was definately one of my favorite zerg spells in BW. The only 2 times I ever see zergs get it is if they say, "what the hell I might as well I have the money" or "I'm getting roaches"
Burrowing of drones
An interesting tactic was used on me the other day. Usually My OC is at its 3set of 50 energy or almost there by the time my first 2 hellions pop out. The first 2 sets of 50 energy I usually spend on mules the 3rd one scans the zerg base just prior to the hellions moving out just double check if they have a lair or not I want to know how fast I need to tech up to thors or medicacs if I do not have them yet. My initial hellions encountered some ling/bling resistance but it was nothing my hit and run couldn't handle. I arrive at the base and attempt to roast some drones. My opponent quickly reacts... but not with lings or his queen or anything of that nature.. he burrows his drones and since I had just recently scanned I did not have the energy to do it again. So it completely negated my starting harass and actually shocked me so much that the lings that had just hatched quickly surrounded my hellions and killed them.
This would be interesting to see more zerg players do this. You might say, "Well burrowing the drones is nice and everything but its a gamble if he has enough energy for a scan you will lose everything as opposed to just a few."
I'm not saying it works every time it all depends on what you have for defense by your resource line at the time when your drones get attacked if running the drones (keep in mind this method completely lines up your drones making them easier targets) would be helpful if your forces can make quick work of the hellions rather quickly. But if you are still hatching more or have more forces on the way then burrow them because especially if the hellions have their burner upgrade they will easily toast the drones if they attempt to run or if they stay and work. If the terran player is committing to a resource harass play the same game make him waste a 270min scan (the ammount of resources a potential mule can harvest)
Who knows you may luck out and find the scan doesn't come in time to help the hellions out.
Edit: Also if you manage to harass the terran player throughout the game at his scv line they become forced to use much of their energy on mules which limits their scanning capabilities.
Burrowing of banelings
The Baneling bust is a very useful strategy versus terran players. In the second game versus the same guy he attempts a baneling bust but it fails because I was prepared for it (I lifted off my second factory and rax to reinfoce the wall, lost my depos but that was ok) so my hellions move out after this failed bust attempt (on blistering sands) they move through the choke going to the natural only to blow up as banelings were burrowed the zerg player forced me to get a raven or 2.
This seems like a good follow up if you attempt a baneling bust and fail. If the terran player attempts a counter attack then you can crush it real quick and the possibly return an assault.
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Obviously all of the above are versus terran opponents but against toss it might be even more effective as if you get an overseer your queen should be able to kill any observers rendering your burrowed harvesters invincible (unless there is splash damage like storm)
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Burrowing zerglings.
It is very obvious that zerg players want to spread their creep out. This not only grants them a wider vision around their base but also a movement bonus. But a creep tumor that is granting vision is very obvious to the other player as the creep is a dead give away that the zerg player can see you. But a simple 100/100 research you can burrow lings at key points around your base. (a zergling for a scan as zerg I would take that trade. You could put them in key expos that the other player would want to take. Placed in a way that blocks the expo or just place it so you can observe them without them knowing you are doing so. By doing this you also would not be putting your overlords at risk. You would only have to send them after the zergling was killed so you could see all the forces that were massing at that location.
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I agree that as the game develops, we will see burrow getting incorporated more and more into micro. I would say that burrowing drones would only really pay off early game and only to cover a small window of time before support units pop out (like the situation you encountered). Forcing the other player to possibly waste energy on a scan rather than a mule would be a good edge early game if you don't need to keep the drones burrowed for a long time.
I like how you mentioned burrowed banelings, because I really believe that they are an underused unit in mid-late game, and I think they could have significant impact. I have seen players such as Cool and Dimaga use baneling drops often, but I think burrowed banelings are another way they can be incorporated into the later game. Even just keeping a burrowed baneling at the opponents ramp would be beneficial to know when they are moving out, and perhaps make them waste a scan or become hesitant to do so. While burrowed and with explode set to auto, they can be used to a spidermine-like effect.
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I really need to try burrowing drones. Its difficult to remember to do that against harass because you're microing to try to kill the harass. However, I still use Burrow a ton with combat units.(especially Roaches)
I really want to try burrowed Banelings, but it would only be good versus Bio Terran and late game Zerg. It also normally only works once, which is why I don't think people try it.
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On July 18 2010 08:26 Whole wrote:
I really want to try burrowed Banelings, but it would only be good versus Bio Terran and late game Zerg. It also normally only works once, which is why I don't think people try it.
Only working once is often more than enough ^_^
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Baneling borrow rarely work, terran normally have a raven or an oberver for protoss.
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yes but isnt that 100 gas early coulda been saved for something else good
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Depends on who you look at. I always get Burrow with Lair Tech. ^^
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It's also rather situational; if you're going heavy mutas, hydras, or some sort of midgame spine crawler push, it would be downright silly to get burrow, but if you're attempting some sort of contain, burrowed banelings would be a fantastic way to delay a templar-oriented protoss, for example.
In much the same way as we construct builds around the 100 gas for ling speed or lair tech, it's also perfectly viable to draw up a build with a focus on making burrow cheap and effective.
tl;dr it can be useful.
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I do both a lot and get burrow very fast, usually immediately with lair (unless I am rushing a spire and need to wait an extra 5 seconds).
The drones thing works very nicely even late game, I have found it extremely useful at far expands when there isn't enough defense around, or saving drones from any harass (or even when the expand goes down).
The burrowed banelings works way more than you would think against Terran. Against the 1/1/1 build it forces a tech lab and Raven. However against a bio build it can really deplete scans or kill a ton of marines. Remember to burrow away from your base and only 2-3 at a time, a terran bio build can't afford to scan all the way. This makes burrowed banelings great in the early game.
The burrowed banelings work very nicely at the close Xel'Naga tower on LT too, the marine marauder ball tends to stop at the tower to check, and boom. Also make sure not to burrow at the same place and have a few mutas pick off ravens if they show up (they are really expensive).
Other great uses for burrow:
- When harassing with a few speedlings, if the enemy army pops just burrow. They then need to waste an extra scan to kill you (bear in mind a scan is worth the cost of the burrow upgrade to a terran player as a MULE).
- During a battle around the opposing natural, drop a few speedlings behind their mineral line. Odds are in the confusion the opponent will miss them (if not its 150 minerals). Then unburrow during the next big battle.
- Getting surrounds, burrow speedlings on the sides of the opponent's path, then pop and surround. This avoids things like vikings or odd marines spotting them accidentally.
- Speedlings on all expands, ALWAYS. 1 on the cc location is beautiful for stopping expands.
- Saving half an army (half the army hides as the reinforcements show up).
Note as well that especially with mutas, the threat of burrowed banelings and a few burrowed speedlings give crazy map control. The opponent will stop moving out without a Raven and when you see a Raven, shoot it down, the things are fragile, pretty slow, and generally muta food.
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Well in sc2 burrow is now lair required, burrow is most useful early on in the game so yea.
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It requires lair tech and ambushes with it are extremely risky. Unlike lurkers, banelings lying in wait / roaches burrowmoving in that get scanned are completely fucking dead as soon as they're revealed. So a single scan/raven shuts down ALL burrow-related strategy.
I've tried using burrowed stuff many times, and more often than not it just leads to an earlier loss when your stuff gets caught out of position in a vulnerable area. Burrow simply comes too late versus how easy it is to get detection - especially terran scans.
And you can't really lonewolf stealth units like P can with DT since Z units are so individually pathetic. Not that Z has a true stealth-capable unit anyways.
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On July 18 2010 11:23 StupidFatHobbit wrote:
So a single scan/raven shuts down ALL burrow-related strategy.
A single scan per set of units. Losing a lone zergling to a scan and knowing where and when the opponent expands is a wonderful thing.
The Raven also needs to get there if they make them. If ever there are Ravens floating around unattended, kill them.
Burrow is much like muta harass in that for a relatively cheap price it forces a bunch of reactions out of the opponent and limits his movement. The resources used in scans, Ravens and being very careful in moving anything out is well worth 100/100. Not to mention the first baneling pop will usually work.
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The 100 minerals cost is negligible, it's the 100 gas that sets you back.
Burrow isn't as useful as stim is, I don't understand why it takes longer to get as well as costs the same, generally worth it though.
I do love some tunneling claws roach harass though, does seem a bit silly the upgrade does nothing without burrow, I think they should make burrow a prerequisite of tunneling claws.
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On July 18 2010 10:21 Leeoku wrote:
yes but isnt that 100 gas early coulda been saved for something else good
The way I see it your first 100 gas goes for ling speed then your second makes you a lair by this time you should have both geysers. So I guess it depends on what you want to go and what your opponent is going.
If you are planning on getting mutas and your opponent went terran bio well your drones are relatively safe early on and obviously your mutas can't burrow. If you decided to go roaches or banelings and your oppoent say went t mech. well the burrow can possibly save your drones against hellions (like I mentioned why not burrow your drones if you dont have forces in the area to kill the hellions you might luck out) and roaches and banelings before the enemy has mobile detection are both very useful if anything it forces them to get it earlier.
On July 18 2010 10:36 Captain wrote:
It's also rather situational; if you're going heavy mutas, hydras, or some sort of midgame spine crawler push, it would be downright silly to get burrow
You always (unless your already screwed ) have a unit that can burrow. Mabye not research it right away if you are going mutas but I would say it could still be useful. If you go mutas and I go marines and medivacs I'll throw in a hellion or 2 to keep the rines safe from lings and move in to toast some drones every now and then. If I ever encounter a mineral line with no defenses in the immediate area and the zerg player decides to run the drones.. I almost always kill them all as when they run away they line up nice and neatly for me. But burrowing them would make me not only waste 270min but does not line the drones up and allows your forces more time to get there.
Like I said running them is a bad idea and leaving them working above ground is not too much better. It really depends on what your opponent has.
Another thought comes to mind.. ZvZ burrow the drones when banelings come you could probally save all your mining (I don't know if banelings can be commanded to explode on the ground which would negate this... infested terrans from BW could). Also in broodwar I would frequently just run and burrow a ling in every expantion whether or not this ling was placed to block the potential expo or not was irrelevant as it still gave me the knowledge that an expo was coming.
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On July 18 2010 12:55 terranghost wrote:
Another thought comes to mind.. ZvZ burrow the drones when banelings come you could probally save all your mining (I don't know if banelings can be commanded to explode on the ground which would negate this... infested terrans from BW could). Also in broodwar I would frequently just run and burrow a ling in every expantion whether or not this ling was placed to block the potential expo or not was irrelevant as it still gave me the knowledge that an expo was coming.
Yeah you can explode banelings whenever you fell like it, personally I like to misclick it.
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i always go burrow as fast as my lair goes up.
burrow is epic win against harass. and if my other bases already have enough drones and the enemy moves in to kill one of my expos i burrow my drones and keep them there until i can put up a new hatch.
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actually, burrowing is a pretty big risk cuz a scan would easily destroy most of ur drones, if not all.
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if you are playing vs toss, and you KNOW he has no robobay, you can, and it is certainly plausible vs any gateway units or air harass
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i don't see how burrow is underused, in every game of mine as zerg i buy it..
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of course, a cheese strat is to hide a pylon and a bay in the far corner of the map, then trust your opponent to get burrow then eliminate his opponent with colossi.
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EPT
