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(I saw the thread from 2008; new administration, different players on the web ... this topic should be brought up to date.)
Possible questions for you::
Do you think the internet has a liberal bias? Why?
What implications does this have for our future?
(Unnecessary, but I'll include it: Are TL users generally liberal?)
1. Please don't go Aegrean and mind fuck us all.
2. Say something insightful.
I'm HOPING someone who is conservative makes a stand here and everyone is mature about it. I'm also hoping that this can pass as a thread and not necessarily a blog. Apologize in advance if I'm mistaken... it's been awhile.
Edit: Should not have mentioned YouTube. That is a playpen for screaming kids; I'm well aware of this and was trying to provide an example everyone is familiar with. Secondly, I'm a moderate from the United States trying to get some different viewpoints on the matter.
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On July 05 2010 19:19 ActualSteve wrote:
every time I watch a YouTube video about politics, I read the comments.
There's your problem
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Average IQ of youtube comments posters is barely above my grandmother's APM.
Edit : Sorry for making such a short reply, you probably expected a more developed answer, but I think there is nothing else to say.
I prefer to have politics debates with my colleagues / friends than with some random fucktards on youtube.
But it's a great idea to start the debate here since I TL community is smart and good at arguing.
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The internet has a liberal bias because it is predominatly youthful. Young people, particularly now, are mostly socialist liberal with varying degrees of conservatism within that ideological tradition.
Implications? Not much. At least in the UK popular poltical parties are non-radical liberals with either a liberal or a socialist influence. In the US I would assume that it means the republical party will either die (but afaik the US system doesnt allow 3rd parties), or move way to the centre.
Are TL users generall liberal? Again, TL users are young so probably. Also TL users are mostly international. The USA is the only place in the world where economic liberalism has been sold to the lower classes
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It is well known that reality has a liberal bias.
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On July 05 2010 19:27 Acies wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 19:19 ActualSteve wrote:
every time I watch a YouTube video about politics, I read the comments.
There's your problem
No, i think hes right. I think the reason for this is mainly demographics. Young people dominate the internet and forums and young people tend to be more liberal.
If you know crap about politics, liberal arguments just sound better than conservative arguments.
Also the word "conservative" itself means resistant to change and is associated with rich old geezers, who are reluctant to new ideas.
edit: Reach_UK already made my point
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Why are you looking for biases everywhere, the answer is simple, the reason for an american to notice there is more liberal comments on the net than in the media is, that the rest of the world is on the net, plus internet is a meeting point for fringe opinions, if you want to call a american liberal a fringe opinion. I am from sweden, and I think that there are more right-wing comments on the internet for the reason that my countrys media-climate is quite leftish compared to the rest of the world.
Plus everything can be a bias from every stand-point and in every way for anybody, so I wouldnt be so quick to proclaim something a bias because its not close to your personal opinions. But maybe you are totally sure that you have 100% the right opinion about everything.
Plus people who comments on youtube are mostly idiots.
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On July 05 2010 19:37 Neobick wrote:
Plus everything can be a bias from every stand-point and in every way for anybody, so I wouldnt be so quick to proclaim something a bias because its not close to your personal opinions. But maybe you are totally sure that you have 100% the right opinion about everything.
Plus people who comments on youtube is mostly idiots.
Noticing a general bias on the internet doesn't have anything to do with your own standpoint. Anybody can notice a political tendency or bias, no matter what their own political opinion or standpoint is.
Edit: I think the preelection Obama vs McCain thread on TL.net is a very good example. Over 50 pages there were two or three users trying to justify their conservative standpoint while getting totally stomped and ridiculed by the rest of TL.net.
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On July 05 2010 19:41 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 19:37 Neobick wrote:
Plus everything can be a bias from every stand-point and in every way for anybody, so I wouldnt be so quick to proclaim something a bias because its not close to your personal opinions. But maybe you are totally sure that you have 100% the right opinion about everything.
Plus people who comments on youtube is mostly idiots.
Noticing a general bias on the internet doesn't have anything to do with your own standpoint. Anybody can notice a political tendency or bias, no matter what their own political opinion or standpoint is.
Depending how you define bias?
Nothing is surely objective, so there are biases everywhere. And internet is a big place without an agenda, so to notice a general bias there you have to look really closely. Every opinion is represented on net.
Edit: My definition of bias is only seeing things from one side, or giving one side an unfair advantage-
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If you have a very fringe opinion, everything, even objective thoughts will look biased to you. Just like creationists thinking that only teaching evolution in the science class is biased.
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On July 05 2010 19:37 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 19:27 Acies wrote:On July 05 2010 19:19 ActualSteve wrote:
every time I watch a YouTube video about politics, I read the comments.
There's your problem No, i think hes right. I think the reason for this is mainly demographics. Young people dominate the internet and forums and young people tend to be more liberal. If you know crap about politics, liberal arguments just sound better than conservative arguments. Also the word "conservative" itself means resistant to change and is associated with rich old geezers, who are reluctant to new ideas. edit: Reach_UK already made my point
He is right in the sense that he is right-wing.
His observations on youtube however are all about perception. Opinions that contradict his are more memorable so in recollection there is a liberal bias to him. I personally am more politically left and observe the opposite.
Additionally the op is American which in general is more conservative than other western countries. Or maybe that is just my own perceptional bias talking.
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On July 05 2010 19:19 ActualSteve wrote:
(I saw the thread from 2008; new administration, different players on the web ... this topic should be brought up to date.)
Seems like every time I watch a YouTube video about politics, I read the comments.
Almost every time I read the comments, I see the conservative standpoint in the minority.
Almost every time said standpoint is stated, 10+ people with opposing viewpoints jump at the opportunity of ridiculing the right.
Possible questions for you::
Do you think the internet has a liberal bias? Why?
What implications does this have for our future?
(Unnecessary, but I'll include it: Are TL users generally liberal?)
1. Please don't go Aegrean and mind fuck us all.
2. Say something insightful.
I'm HOPING someone who is conservative makes a stand here and everyone is mature about it. I'm also hoping that this can pass as a thread and not necessarily a blog. Apologize in advance if I'm mistaken... it's been awhile.
Disclaimer: You're going to get about 2 paragraphs into this and think I'm a liberal just taking an opportunity to troll, but I assure you, I am not.
Short Answer: The internet artificially selects for a liberally biased population.
Long Answer:
1. We can safely assume that people who do not own computers are at the very least significantly less likely to be denizens of this hive of scum and villainy (HA HA, THE INTERNETS) than those people who do own computers.
2. Computers and the Internet are vaguely selective in that most of the reasons one would purchase one, appeal more strongly to those who are more intelligent. Video games are arguably "harder" to enjoy than, say TV is (let alone whatever it is your stereotypical rednecks are doing).
3. Thus, the Internet has already selected for a population that is skewed somewhat above the average as far as intelligence goes. Moreover, the majority of those people who are exceptions to this rule (most of the people who comment on Youtube, for instance) are likely to take the more common viewpoint among their peers, which on the internet is already being liberal.
Now, this appears to be me claiming that intelligence correlates positively with "liberal-ness" - and this is true, that is my belief, but only up to a point. To explain this, lets reverse the issue:
Liberal positions (using the modern understanding of the term) are, I think, generally characterized by a belief that the end result of conservative policies is unfair, or unjust. Marx rails against the exploitation of the proletariat, the Democrats seek openly to redistribute wealth, they seek to universalize healthcare coverage, and so forth. They are, in essence, trying to help other people.
This is, really, quite easy to support, on the face of it. Who doesn't want to help people? Who, really, is going to admit that they're perfectly happy with people dying from a curable illness because they cant afford treatment*?
I'm making an assumption here that with increasing intelligence comes increasing empathy, which is tenuous, to be sure - but certainly as intelligence increases the capacity we have for worrying about issues which are not of direct importance to our own wellbeing increases.
Now, lets look at the result of, say, arguments against universal healthcare. It is an unavoidable fact that if you oppose universalized healthcare you must accept that some people will die when they could, perhaps, have lived with a universal system. This immediately puts conservatives in a fairly sticky position as far as arguments go. It is quite difficult to reconcile this kind of end-result with a concern for society - which is essentially what politics is, an argument over how best to serve society.
It takes a great deal of intellectual fortitude to take a long, hard, unbiased look at the arguments for both sides, and moreover it takes an intellect that has passed through the phase of believing every death is a tragedy that should be prevented at all costs. Such an intellect is, I would argue, more likely to side with conservatives than not, but that particular argument has nothing to do with answering your question. People capable of this kind of cold, logical, and prolonged thinking about very inflammatory issues are few and far between.
tl;dr: Conservatives are over-represented at the extreme ends of intelligence distributions, while Liberals are over-represented in the middle areas. The internet artificially selects a distribution that is biased away from the lower end of that distribution, thus resulting in an artificially high Liberal-to-Conservative ratio.
*Well, I am.
Having written that, I could posit another 3 possibilities for the appearance or fact of a liberal bias on the internet, but I think this one is sufficiently likely to degenerate into flames.
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On July 05 2010 19:42 Neobick wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 19:41 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:On July 05 2010 19:37 Neobick wrote:
Plus everything can be a bias from every stand-point and in every way for anybody, so I wouldnt be so quick to proclaim something a bias because its not close to your personal opinions. But maybe you are totally sure that you have 100% the right opinion about everything.
Plus people who comments on youtube is mostly idiots.
Noticing a general bias on the internet doesn't have anything to do with your own standpoint. Anybody can notice a political tendency or bias, no matter what their own political opinion or standpoint is. Depending how you define bias? Nothing is surely objective, so there are biases everywhere. And internet is a big place without an agenda, so to notice a general bias there you have to look really closely. Every opinion is represented on net.
Maybe i misinterpreted you. What i think the OP means with bias is the general tendency of political discussions on the internet being dominated by liberal standpoints. I also noticed this and think its definitely true and has nothing to do with my own or the OP's political standpoint. Of course ever opinion is represented on the net, but i can't think of one political discussion on any forum i ever read, that did not consist of a majority of people arguing for their more leftish standpoint.
And i don't think this is bad or anything, i just think its normal. Reach_UK already said it, its a demographic thing. Young people tend to favor liberal political standpoints. And this is a fact, i bet there are a million surveys about this.
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Zurich15359 Posts
The simple answer is that The Internet is predominately not from the United States and the US conservatives' positions are for the most part very alien to the rest of world.
The other reasons stated previously are most likely valid as well but I think the internationality of the Internet is the most apparent reason.
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On July 05 2010 19:52 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 19:42 Neobick wrote:On July 05 2010 19:41 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:On July 05 2010 19:37 Neobick wrote:
Plus everything can be a bias from every stand-point and in every way for anybody, so I wouldnt be so quick to proclaim something a bias because its not close to your personal opinions. But maybe you are totally sure that you have 100% the right opinion about everything.
Plus people who comments on youtube is mostly idiots.
Noticing a general bias on the internet doesn't have anything to do with your own standpoint. Anybody can notice a political tendency or bias, no matter what their own political opinion or standpoint is. Depending how you define bias? Nothing is surely objective, so there are biases everywhere. And internet is a big place without an agenda, so to notice a general bias there you have to look really closely. Every opinion is represented on net. Maybe i misinterpreted you. What i think the OP means with bias is the general tendency of political discussions on the internet being dominated by liberal standpoints. I also noticed this and think its definitely true and has nothing to do with my own or the OP's political standpoint. Of course ever opinion is represented on the net, but i can't think of one political discussion on any forum i ever read, that did not consist of a majority of people arguing for their more leftish standpoint. And i don't think this is bad or anything, i just think its normal. Reach_UK already said it, its a demographic thing. Young people tend to favor liberal political standpoints. And this is a fact, i bet there are a million surveys about this.
Left/Right isn't binary. Even if we do place all political standpoints on a one dimensional line there are still infinitely many points along that line. If you are far to the right on that line then the average opinion will look leftish to you. A non biased opinion would then be something at the middle of that line but how would you define the middle? The median of all individuals political thoughts? In which group? The middle of that line in the US would be far to the right of the middle in Europe.
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I don't think I've ever read an intelligent youtube comment. Disregarding this fact, the same bias can be seen on most sites tl.net included. I think the reason is that most of the world (edit: with high rate of internet access availability) outside of U.S. don't share many values or ideologies with the american political right.
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to be honest, to base an understanding of the denizens of the internet on youtube comments is like judging all of the food in the world on british cooking.
most youtube commenters are idiots afaik.
idiots and furries/emos
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I wouldn't at all be suprised at this, basing anything on what people on youtube says isn't the best thing to begin with, but most of the rest of the world is just a alot less rightwing than America is. I mean atm the democrats in America are being singled out to be socialist madmen, yet they are still more rightwing than the most rightwing major party in my country.
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On July 05 2010 20:23 Hynda wrote:
I wouldn't at all be suprised at this, basing anything on what people on youtube says isn't the best thing to begin with, but most of the rest of the world is just a alot less rightwing than America is. I mean atm the democrats in America are being singled out to be socialist madmen, yet they are still more rightwing than the most rightwing major party in my country.
Yes, I guess so. I don't think that most .com web pages such as youtube are extraordinary liberal whereas the USA are known to me and many other germans as having an extraordinarily strong conservative party /right wing.
The german CDU (Christlich Demokratische Union Deutschlands - Christian Democratic Union of Germany) is almost as liberal as the Democratic Party although, on the scale of parties, it's as right wing as the republicans (only known party that is further on the right side is the nazi party NPD and they don't get a namable part of votes anyways, e.g. they have no chance to get a seat in the bundestag. All they're good for is beeing scolded everywhere.)
However, in general the internet is certainly way more liberal than politics. That's just typical for the large rate of young people who usually are more liberal than older people such as almost all politicians.
Also, art is almost always left wing and are a huge part of what people discuss about. Maybe not paintings or theatre (the most likely most left wing form of arts there is) but at least music or movies.
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On July 05 2010 19:51 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2010 19:19 ActualSteve wrote:
(I saw the thread from 2008; new administration, different players on the web ... this topic should be brought up to date.)
Seems like every time I watch a YouTube video about politics, I read the comments.
Almost every time I read the comments, I see the conservative standpoint in the minority.
Almost every time said standpoint is stated, 10+ people with opposing viewpoints jump at the opportunity of ridiculing the right.
Possible questions for you::
Do you think the internet has a liberal bias? Why?
What implications does this have for our future?
(Unnecessary, but I'll include it: Are TL users generally liberal?)
1. Please don't go Aegrean and mind fuck us all.
2. Say something insightful.
I'm HOPING someone who is conservative makes a stand here and everyone is mature about it. I'm also hoping that this can pass as a thread and not necessarily a blog. Apologize in advance if I'm mistaken... it's been awhile.
tl;dr: Conservatives are over-represented at the extreme ends of intelligence distributions, while Liberals are over-represented in the middle areas. The internet artificially selects a distribution that is biased away from the lower end of that distribution, thus resulting in an artificially high Liberal-to-Conservative ratio. .
I'm gonna need the study that confirms this.
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EPT
