EPTMini Mafia 2
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
With that in place, town has to wait for deadline to force a lynch on a player, and alternatively, if someone puts a player at one vote until lynch very quickly, other players can't pull their vote off to extend the day if they don't feel the town is ready, or if they suspect that mafia is going to sweep in and hammer that player. | ||
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
Vote rule #4 - Self-voting can be useful in a few occasions for both town and mafia. Again, it really takes an element away if that's not allowed. | ||
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On January 05 2010 07:44 Scamp wrote: I really can't think of a situation where a self-vote is needed. Can you help me out here? Sure! I'm going to assume only one killing party in these 2 situations. It's a 9 player game. Town has lynched one scum player so far, and there has been a lynch/night-kill combination every day/night. Day 4 is headed into LYLO (lynch-or-lose) where they must lynch scum. On Day 3, the lynch is going to be a town player who knows he can't sway the opinions, but he also knows that the scum player is going to have to work to get a win in Day 4 (whether there are two really strong pro-town players or a few players onto his case) and that the player is going to need as much time as possible to figure out his night action. If the player waits till the deadline, that is more time for the scum player. But if he self-hammers and lynches himself, it cuts the scum players time short. Alternatively, on Day 3 with no scum lynches and a lynch/night-kill combination every night, a scum player is about to be lynched, but town is content to sit on his lynch until the deadline because they have no leads for his partner. Scum player can self-hammer to cut town planning time short and give their teammate a better shot going into D4's lylo situation. | ||
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On January 05 2010 10:24 Incognito wrote: Um ok I get rule four, but did you mean to remove 7 not 3? Because from the description it seems like rule 7 is the one that is discussed but you mentioned 3. Just waiting for nemY The reason I included rule #3: Rule #3 states: You can not autochange your vote to the losing or winning bandwagon. If my vote is on Ace, but L is the leading lynch candidate and a single vote from being lynched, and we want to end the day because a cop investigation came forth confirming Ace as an innocent and we feel L's partner (we've found L conclusively scummy) would have too much time with a full deadline, I can't switch my vote to L according to this. e: I'm all for KEEPING rule #7. I'm for REMOVING rule #3 to allow bandwagon hopping - it can be a big scumtell, actually. e2: Judge plays way too much mafia to be good for his health. I was just in 5 games at the same time X_X | ||
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I AM A MEDIC. Stop. Read. Let it sink in. I just openly claimed to start this game off. Other medics (if you exist), stay in hiding. Why? 1) I can be more effective this way. First, I can be confirmed rather easily with this done. That will come on Day 2, but I can be. Second, it allows me to work in the open and play with mafia's head. I can make my own list towards the end of each day and force mafia to play a guessing game as to who on the list I will protect, if I will actually protect anyone from that list, or if it is worth it to try and kill me and will I protect myself. 2) As stated above, it will throw a major wrench into the mafias night-actions. They will not know if they are safe to try and kill me, or one of my targets. They don't know if there are other medics either who can protect me and/or my targets. 3) Mafia is now going to push to get me killed, either very boldly or subtly, via a lynch. This will give us a pool to work with of potential suspects. | ||
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United States3161 Posts
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vx70GTOJudgexv
United States3161 Posts
On January 05 2010 19:47 Scamp wrote: Also isn't NemY the one that's supposed to claim medic on day one? Last time this happened the town got in a major BS argument day 1 and then won when our mafia leader ragequit because Vivi logged in 2 minutes late. Difference here is the fact that I know what I'm doing here. On January 05 2010 20:13 Zato-1 wrote: [1]Medics should cover blue roles. How do you find out if someone is a blue role? Good question. Hopefully I'll be able to answer it by nighttime. On a final note: [2]Player list seems to be 12 people long. Are there 12 of us? If so, please fix the "11 of 11 players remain" on the OP. Also, if there's 12 players, how many mafia and how many townies are there? The OP suggests 8 townies and 3 mafia, but that adds up to 11. Also, is role revealed after death, or merely which side you're on? [1] - We'll discuss protection options as the day draws near an end. I'm leaning towards L or Ace tonight, depending on how each plays. [2] - I think we're at 12 (9 & 3) and this should be full reveal, not limited flip. On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote: Day 1 roleclaiming medic is beyond ballsy, and your payoff seems to be little more than making a list and then having a dt check you OR telling the vig to hit a target and protecting it. How exactly is this not godfather play? I mean, I've already thought about the relative pros and cons of you doing this as a green, dt, vig, vet, medic, and godfather, but I want to hear what you've got to say about this. It does a number of things - it can provide a confirmed townie which is the worst possible thing for mafia to have to go up against, because it's someone that no matter what, they cannot push a lynch on, and worst of all - I'm not one of the top players in the game, so I'm not someone they want to waste a NK on either. Even if I'm barking up the completely wrong tree they have to try and kill me because they can't get me lynched once I'm confirmed. It forces mafia to play a guessing game. Sure, they had to play one before, but it was minimized. Now, they have to try and outguess the entire town. I can ask the town directly - who do we want to keep protected tonight and form a list. Mafia players will either have to sacrifice a potential target and put him up on the list or out themselves with a ridiculous choice and/or not post at all. Then at night they have to out-guess me in a wonderful game of who the fuck will I protect. Will I protect one of the targets offered up? Will I protect myself? Which of the targets will I protect. Doctor can be a much more powerful role out in the open. On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote: If you're trying to absorb a dt check rather than anyone the DT wanted to check; that's interesting. We'd rather have checks on reds rather than on blues. If you're trying to get the vig to hit someone, that's double interesting. It would be triple interesting depending on how you asked him. I wouldn't direct a vig to hit anyone and protect that, because our vigs are one-shot. There are later plans for any vigs. Regarding the DT, I have a plan for any potential DTs we have, but that steps in on D2. On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote: You're probably not going to get lynched day 1, but then again it was highly unlikely that you would have been the eventual lynch target on the first day anyways. So objectively it seems like you're trying to call attention to yourself, which is the standard play for vets and godfathers. I'm a medic though. And I'm trying to do something different because I've seen it work, I've seen this tactic in play. Besides, as odd of a defense as it is, this is nowhere near my scum meta, even if I was GF. I much prefer to push attention away from myself, because I'm prone to fuckups if I try and be too active. On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote: Dunno, give me your take on it, and don't pretend that the list stupidity is a good idea granted that you could have had a mouth produce the list. The timing and activity in the thread indicates that there are very few people who could have gotten you as a mouth as well. The ability to be a confirmed townie and force mafia to adapt uncomfortably. The ability to force mafia into a guessing game. The ability to bring the town together and become a town leader here. On January 06 2010 02:14 L wrote: Just seems a bit odd that no one's talking about it. So we have 2 topics of interest now: 1) Medic claim 2) Who y'all wanna kill It does seem odd that no one is talking about it. On January 06 2010 02:25 Ace wrote: I actually think it was a rather bad move. It's an 11 player game with 3 Mafia that have a grand total of 1 KP: why in the world would there be 2 medics? This pretty much means judge is if innocent going to die Night 1 as there is 0 protection available if he really is a Medic. The only other circumstances come down to him being Mafia false role claiming Day 1, or he's the Vet hoping to absorb a hit. Either way I don't believe he's truly a medic because any real medic wouldn't have role claimed Day 1 in this format. I can protect myself. That was the kicker. It might not make sense for there to be two medics, but there very well could be. We don't know, and I don't try and out-guess the mod, no matter what the most likely scenario of "who should be scum" or "Why would he do this". @Scamp - I think I covered your points in my responses to L, so I'm not going to re-hash them if that's cool with you. Also, for a kill, I say if he doesn't really put effort into it, Chezinu should be the day 1 lynch. No matter what he flips, it's a win for town. | ||
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On January 06 2010 06:40 Vivi57 wrote: Judge is probably vet or gf. Either way, using a rolecheck on him is a waste because it tells us nothing. Or I'm a medic. And because everyone wants to know: Yes, the plan does involve a DT R/C on me. Look. This play out-and-out doesn't make sense for mafia to do, even as GF, because of the doubt you all have. I'm pretty much painting a big target on myself here. If I'm the GF, or even just lowly mafia, I am one of 3 members and I would be putting a third of the team on the line for what mafia would gain very little from. If I'm GF, I'm putting myself more on the line, but I'm neither. I'm a medic. On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote: See, I believe you're rather correct when you say there's a guessing game going on, but I don't know why you'd do it in person, rather than through a mouth. Additionally, I don't see why pretending to be a mouth and posting late in the day rather than early would have harmed you or your goals here. So what mindgames are here that weren't here previously? The only real difference in the 'try to dodge the medic list member' roulette is the fact that you've painted a sign on your forehead. While you may have seen this used in the past, the 9 man format doesn't have a godfather, and doesn't have the possibility of multiple medics; the bluff is far simpler to make here, whereas its a massively ballsy move in a game of 9 man to claim doc as mafia; that's why its so powerful there. Actually, I read it first used in a 12 man closed setup. No clue as to whether a GF was there or not. Could have been two medics, could have been 5. Nothing was known. This is semi-open which makes it just as effective. Why didn't I use a mouth or pretend to be a mouth? If I used a mouth, I could easily out myself to mafia and my mouth could be mafia providing a plethora of problems. If I pretended to be a mouth, there could be the problem of "He might be mafia." and then I would be outed as medic sooner or later, leading to questions why I chose to fake using a mouth. On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote: Additionally, I have further issues; As you note, the timing of this is odd; you can't reveal a bunch of your 'plan' because a bunch of night roles simply aren't able to act yet. I can somewhat waive this on my own because I typically play in the same manner. Actually, it isn't because night roles can't act yet, it's because I'm keeping mafia on their toes. On January 06 2010 05:04 L wrote: What's more worrisome here, however, is the fact that the rules state that as a medic, you won't be told if your protection target has actually been protected, nor will they be told that they have been protected. If you're mafia, that means you can fake a 'confirmation' on yourself by stating that you protected, say, me while not hitting anyone for a night. How exactly are you going to confirm anyone? The objective elements of your claim are an increase in attention on you, which speaks to a godfather, vet, vig or green role. You most certainly aren't the DT, or a normal mafia member. I wasn't going to claim any confirmation through a protection. I was going to wait until just before day ended and bark some orders, matter of fact. Also, in a setup like this, as a scum-gambit to false claim doc and fake confirmation there is no major gain. BTW, you're catching on with the last part - none of my actions fit the profile of a medic, which can cause people to question the veracity. I am the medic, but how much are the mafia going to believe that? The plan works in a few parts. The first part is the claim. The second part is making it through the day and establishing a plan for the night in terms of protections. Third part involves a DT rolechecking me. Day 2 I will explain at the beginning of Day 2. If I lay out the entire plan right now, the plan is lost. | ||
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United States3161 Posts
On January 06 2010 09:00 L wrote: Given you were the one that noted this 2 games ago, WIFOM is a pretty bad move as justification. Touche. AND BE WORSE OFF THAN NOW? HO HO HO. MERRY CHRISTMAS. Your reasoning is pretty bad, bromigo Clarification: I could easily pick a mafioso as my mouth, and all information would flow through him, and thus to others. Generally, a mouth this early on is stupid. Is it the greatest position to leave me out in the open today? No. But I don't have to worry about going to a potential mouth, PMing him and having him not come forward with the information. | ||
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Stop asking questions about the plan, because the more I lay out now, the less effective it is. Right now it is 9 hours to deadline, and a slew of people have decided to go under. Let's figure out which one of them is going to be a lynch candidate tonight, and at 10:50 PM EST I will lay out the night phase of my plan for you all to see. I've got a pretty good feeling that this is going to catch one mafia tonight, if you just let me work my magic. | ||
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And this is a different plan from that, trust me :D Scamp, I'm trying to remember the game # of where I last saw it used, when I do I'll link it. | ||
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Do I have to spell out EVERY SINGLE FUCKING ACTION for you? Because I might as well before the lynch, if you plan on killing me tonight - let me know so I can explain how this would've worked. | ||
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I've said part of it before. The first objective of the claim was to allow me to work out in the open, scare scum and also because I do have a plan. The second objective is to put myself in a position to lead the town in the right direction, because otherwise we'd be voting to no-lynch today, which on Day 1 is an awful play. You think it's scummy that I don't give out every detail of my plan? That's great. Unfortunately, as I've re-iterated before and I'll do again, giving out every detail of my plan makes it useless. Let me help you all out and put this claim in perspective from both points of view: From a Town-aligned point of view: I am a medic. I can sit back, hope not to draw too much attention to me during the day or the night and try and protect the right hits. OR I can come out in the open and claim. Thus, the mafia is now wondering a myriad of things. Am I the real medic? Am I bluffing? Can they hit me successfully? Will I protect the people I list? Will they hit the one I protect? If he's not the medic, we'll be able to get him lynched, but if he is, we might not. Do we try and kill him at night? Now I have one-up on the mafia. I don't need to outguess them. I'll protect who I choose to and wait. If you think a medic's only use is to absorb kills, you're dead wrong. From a scum-aligned point of view: I am mafia. I can sit back, let town go at themselves, maybe push for a no-lynch on D1 and help us just effortlessly pick people off. Or I can claim to be a medic. I can pass on a night-kill to try and confirm myself, but people might see through that. Or I can try and waste a DT check, but they might not buy into that either. When I don't die and other people start dying, I will be questioned. This isn't even WIFOM here, there is just no gain from a scum perspective. | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:07 mikeymoo wrote: Small point: I can't see why mafia would claim medic and pass on a night kill. A night miss can still be regarded as Vet, right? It still makes some sense (I guess?) to claim medic, just not passing on a night kill. It was just a possible way for mafia to try and confirm themselves being the medic. Obviously the vet throws it off as does the no confirmation via PM of a save. | ||
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On January 07 2010 09:13 HeavOnEarth wrote: Were you gonna make a medic list or something judge? There's still some 4 hours left to the day, I will though. Any input from players on who I should protect from the town? | ||
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