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Please watch the first 10-15 minutes of the replay (online, to prevent the replay bug) before giving any tips.
http://repdepot.net/replay.php?id=21819
So today i encountered this "oldschool" build playing against a protoss. He starts with 2 gate zealot + 3 probe pressure. to survive, i morph 2 sunks as soon as the expansion hatch finishes and build some lings.. P keeps sending more zealot, so i am forced to add more lings and few sunkens. I didn't overreact with mass sunken and ling count to stay in game economically. Meanwhile he has shitton of zeals at my front door, squeezes out 400 minerals and expands. I try to delay it with few spare lings that i had but failed miserably.
Then the protoss attacks me couz he's no pro and i just barely defend couz i had the bare minimum force that was needed. After that i'm free BUT behind economically, couz he is on 2 bases too, has more probes and i have all those useless sunkens and no tech. Knowing that i'm behind and that my 3rd exp will get crushed by 2 base speed-lots eventually, i tried mass-ling but it failed too. So the game dragged out eventually till i lost because of that economic disadvantage i got at the beginning. Couz of this 2 gate start, i was dragging "behind" the protoss the whole game.
So now i'm here asking the wise people for help, what should i've done to make it right.
My ling count would never caught up with his zeal count so it would've be a waist and i had to be on defence right? If i made less lings i would've been dead. If i would've made mutas, he would've canoned all his stuff in time anyways, as seen in the rep and plus i wouldn't have had enough stuff to defend my base while hunting with mutas. I'm actually lucky that he attacked me, couz if not, i wouldn't have gotten out until lurkers were out and by that time he could've had his 3rd secure.
It doesn't have to be full game analysis. Need guidance just for the first 10-15 minutes that did get me behind, general stuff against 2 gate BO. any replays of zerg successfully/perfectly dealing with this situation would be VERY helpful. thanks.
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IMO you delt with the initial Zealot pressure fine
Except, after you saw him massing zealot, you should have gotten more forces to deal with it
You did /not/ have the bare minimum to defend with
You needed a bit more lings to defend it properly
After you kill his zealots, you should set up a ling contain outside of his base so no more pesky things come out
Then expo for your third
If he just expanded, he won't be doing that much for a while
Especially once you saw how many cannons he had, he obviously spent over 2k on that expo
And if he doesn't attack, you go mutas [The same way you deal with +1 leg and +1 attack]
Yes, we will expect him to cannon up, but you can clear out the zealots for free basically
Overall, I think you
1) Didn't have enough lings to deal with the large zealot push
2) Didn't expand when you should have
3) Lost your expansions to small forces [2 zealots killed a base? You can't let that happen]
Keep in mind 2 gate is strong on Python
Given proper micro, it's very very hard to block
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i need some help with this as well, how did u sunken up in time? a zealot and a probe usually get to me before my 12 hatch finishes morphing and 1/2 way through my pool.
Am i suppose to cancel the hatchery and build sunkens in my main??
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On October 02 2009 03:33 lone_hydra wrote:
i need some help with this as well, how did u sunken up in time? a zealot and a probe usually get to me before my 12 hatch finishes morphing and 1/2 way through my pool.
Am i suppose to cancel the hatchery and build sunkens in my main??
Something is terribly wrong with your build order, because unless he does some super early proxy his first zeal should arrive just before your pool finished.. you take two drones to your hatch which is just finished, place two creep colonies... he will attack one, cancel it when it's almost ready and place it again. Morph the other one to a sunken. You'r lings will now be out and he will have 3zealots and 1-2 probes.. micro your lings around while you wait for the first sunken to finish.. if he attacks it, pick of the probes first. now he has two more zeals on the way and you have about 8-10 lings and hopefully 1sunken up and one on the way. Danger averted..
To OP.. if he expands at this point, i usually drone up, make a third hatch in my main/nat.. get a gas and a hydra den.. contain him with ling/hydra, get a third gas and from there it's the normal game.
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thats alot of things to for a d player -_-
imma just 4 pool ftw
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On October 02 2009 10:59 lone_hydra wrote:
thats alot of things to for a d player -_-
imma just 4 pool ftw
Nah, take the advice and practice more. Then you will be able to beat it from D players =D
Also, have you checked liquipedia? I'd imagine the info based on the depth of the question you asked would be in the zerg section. Protoss sections covers most of these things ('m P). You could also look at the P section to see things from the P perspective.
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Ok. Im just like WTF?.
U had 2x higher apm than ur opponent but u didnt controled anything, ur macro was very bad. You let him expo when he just completly ran out of minerals twice... he spent his last minerals on nexus he didnt had anything to defend himself and u just stopped producing units and started build sunkens on ur "3rd". Again when his 3rd ran out u just let him again to expo on 9. You saw his probes rushing with minerals there with ur scourages.
Another thing u had some scourages, but u didnt used them when he was killing ur ovies or when he made drop on ur 4th expo.
Remember speedlings aint that usefull like cracklings + defilers.
His main units were archons and goons... if you could just use swarm he wouldnt do anything moreover use swarm to break his cannon defence its better than making ultras without their +2 additional carapace.
You had that game won like 3 times but u just did nothing and let him come back to game without any pressure.
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I hate to say but dealing with 2gate theres like.
5000000 topics on this if you'll use the search function theres a thread in particular with alot of b-+++ protosses telling zergs how youre suposed to deal with them.
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On October 02 2009 03:43 Cry4Me wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2009 03:33 lone_hydra wrote:
i need some help with this as well, how did u sunken up in time? a zealot and a probe usually get to me before my 12 hatch finishes morphing and 1/2 way through my pool.
Am i suppose to cancel the hatchery and build sunkens in my main?? Something is terribly wrong with your build order, because unless he does some super early proxy his first zeal should arrive just before your pool finished.. you take two drones to your hatch which is just finished, place two creep colonies... he will attack one, cancel it when it's almost ready and place it again. Morph the other one to a sunken. You'r lings will now be out and he will have 3zealots and 1-2 probes.. micro your lings around while you wait for the first sunken to finish.. if he attacks it, pick of the probes first. now he has two more zeals on the way and you have about 8-10 lings and hopefully 1sunken up and one on the way. Danger averted.. To OP.. if he expands at this point, i usually drone up, make a third hatch in my main/nat.. get a gas and a hydra den.. contain him with ling/hydra, get a third gas and from there it's the normal game.
9 pool
8/9 when pool starts, drone
9/9 and 100 minerals build ovy
pool and ovy finish pop 6 lings either for rush/scout/defense/mastur-debaten/wtv'
300 minerals expo
expo finishes sunken like a whoer and pray the opponents doesnt go air.
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On October 03 2009 01:25 StarChief wrote:
9 pool
8/9 when pool starts, drone
9/9 and 100 minerals build ovy
pool and ovy finish pop 6 lings either for rush/scout/defense/mastur-debaten/wtv'
300 minerals expo
expo finishes sunken like a whoer and pray the opponents doesnt go air.
What? That's not even the optimal 9-pool build (extractor trick) and at any rate a 9-pool is inferior to a 12-hatch against a 2-gate build.
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On October 03 2009 01:29 Ingenol wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 01:25 StarChief wrote:
9 pool
8/9 when pool starts, drone
9/9 and 100 minerals build ovy
pool and ovy finish pop 6 lings either for rush/scout/defense/mastur-debaten/wtv'
300 minerals expo
expo finishes sunken like a whoer and pray the opponents doesnt go air. What? That's not even the optimal 9-pool build (extractor trick) and at any rate a 9-pool is inferior to a 12-hatch against a 2-gate build.
if he wants to deal with fast zeals it is, plus it IS 12 hatch technically cause when u put the expo down u should be at 12/16 ya nerd.
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On October 03 2009 01:36 StarChief wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 01:29 Ingenol wrote:On October 03 2009 01:25 StarChief wrote:
9 pool
8/9 when pool starts, drone
9/9 and 100 minerals build ovy
pool and ovy finish pop 6 lings either for rush/scout/defense/mastur-debaten/wtv'
300 minerals expo
expo finishes sunken like a whoer and pray the opponents doesnt go air. What? That's not even the optimal 9-pool build (extractor trick) and at any rate a 9-pool is inferior to a 12-hatch against a 2-gate build. if he wants to deal with fast zeals it is, plus it IS 12 hatch technically cause when u put the expo down u should be at 12/16 ya nerd.
Are you fucking kidding me.
That's like saying going overpool and then for some reason making your hatch at 12 instead of 11 is technically 12hatch because the hatchery is made at 12.
and "sunken like a whore and pray they don't go air"?
ffs.
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On October 03 2009 01:36 StarChief wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 01:29 Ingenol wrote:On October 03 2009 01:25 StarChief wrote:
9 pool
8/9 when pool starts, drone
9/9 and 100 minerals build ovy
pool and ovy finish pop 6 lings either for rush/scout/defense/mastur-debaten/wtv'
300 minerals expo
expo finishes sunken like a whoer and pray the opponents doesnt go air. What? That's not even the optimal 9-pool build (extractor trick) and at any rate a 9-pool is inferior to a 12-hatch against a 2-gate build. if he wants to deal with fast zeals it is, plus it IS 12 hatch technically cause when u put the expo down u should be at 12/16 ya nerd.
Worthless post. That's still not a 12 hatch build.
As said, you're WRONG, that's not the optimal 9pool build. Besides the fact 9pool is NOT exactly great vs 2gate (although it's very good vs proxies), it's 9pool, drone, extractor, drone, cancel extractor, overlord. Overlord finishes before the pool finishes, and I have one more drone in my build than you do mining. Since 9pool requires building lings, that one drone will be mining for a while.
All he has to do is block his ramp with 2 probes and one zealot by the time your lings get there, hold out for a few seconds, and add a second zeal to the ramp. You're now left with an economically inferior build.
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OMFG people all I did was give a SUGGESTION, and yall are gonna lynch me for it?! I don't even play zerg, it was an IDEA to be discussed, NOT ridiculed. FUCK ALL OF YOU RETARDED BITCHES YOU CAN SUCK MY HAIRY BALLS.
User was banned for this post.
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On October 03 2009 02:01 StarChief wrote:
OMFG people all I did was give a SUGGESTION, and yall are gonna lynch me for it?! I don't even play zerg, it was an IDEA to be discussed, NOT ridiculed. FUCK ALL OF YOU RETARDED BITCHES YOU CAN SUCK MY HAIRY BALLS.
This post gets 5 racenilatrs out of 5.
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On October 03 2009 02:16 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2009 02:01 StarChief wrote:
OMFG people all I did was give a SUGGESTION, and yall are gonna lynch me for it?! I don't even play zerg, it was an IDEA to be discussed, NOT ridiculed. FUCK ALL OF YOU RETARDED BITCHES YOU CAN SUCK MY HAIRY BALLS. This post gets 5 racenilatrs out of 5.
whats a "racenilatr" O.o
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Banned in 4 posts mayhaps?
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
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On October 03 2009 02:25 Ingenol wrote:
Banned in 4 posts mayhaps?
lets check... ... ....
... .
....
nope still here xD
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EPT
