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United States3702 Posts
Now, I think that most of us here are pretty much against being able to select multiple buildings at once (at least thats the feeling I've seen perpetuated time and time again throughout these forums). But if you take a look at the game demo videos (easier to see in the higher resolution ones), you'll see that the demoer is able to select what appear to be multiple warp gates at once. (Take a look around the point stalkers come into play, along with the zealot warp right after that)
When I first noticed this, I immediately thought bad things, but then I looked at how it was being used. To me, it appears as though you can select multiple buildings, but each 'click' to create units only creates it in one of the buildings. So its still one click per unit. It does, however, appear to auto-find the next building that is idle, taking away that aspect of the game.
So my question is, what do you guys think of this multiple-selection style? Does the one click per unit aspect keep it okay, or does it still remove a lot of the skill of macro?
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I'm for it.
More time for strategic play simply.
No reason for not including it really, other than that we are used to do it the hard way.
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United States7488 Posts
I think having to find the buildings is better... in the case of having double digit production facilities. Otherwise while you are in battle you just his your one hotkey and spam the build hotkey every so often and never have to really manage how your buildings are made (especially if you can just warp in you protoss units right to the battle if you have an energy field there, which it looks like won't be difficult to do.
So no on the multiple building selection for purposes of production.
By the way: I suck at Starcraft, but that doesn't mean I want to make it easier for myself.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On May 21 2007 16:21 jtan wrote:
I'm for it.
More time for strategic play simply.
No reason for not including it really, other than that we are used to do it the hard way.
Agreed. 99% of the complaints you will hear stem from the fact that we are used to it being a certain way and stubbornly refuse to change for some reason.
Yeah, it makes the game harder and adds a level of skill if you can't queue up units, or if you can only select 6 or 3 or 1 unit at a time, or whtaever, but those are stupid and no one in their right mind would ever implement them.
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Don't like it, makes the game much more noobie friendly. If you can select every single one of your units and all your building with 2 hotkeys, thats makes multitasking incredibly easy.
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What exactly about making the game more friendly to beginners is a bad thing? Don't we all want Starcraft 2 to become the best and most popular game ever created?
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United States12248 Posts
I think we all predicted multiple building selection, in the same vein as War3. I think we may see the return of subgroups as well, especially considering the unlimited unit selection. It's really nothing to fear though.
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no i dont wanna stare at a screen doing nothing.
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On May 21 2007 16:33 Excalibur_Z wrote:
I think we all predicted multiple building selection, in the same vein as War3. I think we may see the return of subgroups as well, especially considering the unlimited unit selection. It's really nothing to fear though.
Won't it be much easier to have oov-like macro though?
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On May 21 2007 16:38 Oxygen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2007 16:33 Excalibur_Z wrote:
I think we all predicted multiple building selection, in the same vein as War3. I think we may see the return of subgroups as well, especially considering the unlimited unit selection. It's really nothing to fear though. Won't it be much easier to have oov-like macro though?
Oov's macro is not just 3m4m5c6m7m8m9m0c
Every pro can do that, but what makes Oov stand out is his fantastic game sense; he knows when to do what, what to do to maximize his production, etc.
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What makes oov stand out is that he knows when it's safe to cheat. 
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United States12248 Posts
On May 21 2007 16:38 Oxygen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2007 16:33 Excalibur_Z wrote:
I think we all predicted multiple building selection, in the same vein as War3. I think we may see the return of subgroups as well, especially considering the unlimited unit selection. It's really nothing to fear though. Won't it be much easier to have oov-like macro though?
Easier, yes, but I bet it would still be something that separates the good from the great. For example, let's say you have all your buildings hotkeyed to a single group. Furthermore, let's say that Subgroups are already implemented, meaning you just have to Tab to the next type of building. So you have 12 Factories and 1-2 Starports hotkeyed. Some of those Factories have addons and some don't. Let's say you hit V when the Factories are selected - you've just given the order to produce 12 Vultures when you probably want some (but not all) of the Machine Shop Factories building Tanks. You could probably separate your Machine Shop and non-Machine Shop Factories into separate hotkeys to make it a little easier still, but then what if you don't want (or can't afford) all of your Machine Shop Factories making Tanks, what if you just want one or two, with the rest producing Vultures? You can only get the level of force customization that pros excel at by individually selecting production structures, and that's something pros will probably continue to do considering force balance will be so delicate an issue.
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All this does is remove another facet of skill from the game. I don't see why this is something people want. Yeah, if you want the game to be less practice intensive, I can see why. But implementing multiple-building select makes high level play less impressive.
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People are all too opposed to changes, despite it being a new game.
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Excalibur nailed it. All multiple building selection does it make it easier for lower level players to macro. This will bring more players to the game and help improve the community.
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it's not a matter of being afraid of change. things like this are what separate us white kids from people like oov. it's a matter of SKILL. adding shit like this just takes away from the skill of the game.
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United States7488 Posts
On May 21 2007 16:43 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2007 16:38 Oxygen wrote:On May 21 2007 16:33 Excalibur_Z wrote:
I think we all predicted multiple building selection, in the same vein as War3. I think we may see the return of subgroups as well, especially considering the unlimited unit selection. It's really nothing to fear though. Won't it be much easier to have oov-like macro though? Easier, yes, but I bet it would still be something that separates the good from the great. For example, let's say you have all your buildings hotkeyed to a single group. Furthermore, let's say that Subgroups are already implemented, meaning you just have to Tab to the next type of building. So you have 12 Factories and 1-2 Starports hotkeyed. Some of those Factories have addons and some don't. Let's say you hit V when the Factories are selected - you've just given the order to produce 12 Vultures when you probably want some (but not all) of the Machine Shop Factories building Tanks. You could probably separate your Machine Shop and non-Machine Shop Factories into separate hotkeys to make it a little easier still, but then what if you don't want (or can't afford) all of your Machine Shop Factories making Tanks, what if you just want one or two, with the rest producing Vultures? You can only get the level of force customization that pros excel at by individually selecting production structures, and that's something pros will probably continue to do considering force balance will be so delicate an issue.
That would be bad IMO, but not what I was thinking of. I think what the OP was getting at is that it would only make 1 unit when you press the hotkey to make it, rather that have all of them build. For example: I have all my Barracks hotkeyed to 4. I press 4mmmmmm every so often in battle to keep my marines coming. I don't have to pay attention to which barracks are building, as long as I've got the money it will build a marine in the next available barracks.
Another concern I have with building from multiple building at once is the Zerg issue. How will this affect the larvae being selected if you only wanted to make one hydralisk from your mass building selection? How would you do that via hotkeys as they are described above? And if they build all at once, that makes it very difficult for Zerg to produce multiple types of unit at once, and also in that case how many units (larvae) would be able to be selected at once?
I think from the nature at which the different races produce units currently that it would be difficult to implement some sort of mass building select and build and keep it balanced in how it is done.
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Sweden33719 Posts
I'm much less opposed to it now than when I first thought about it so maybe it will grow on you ~_~
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United States7488 Posts
I am sure it will grow on me, but I still don't know how they would implement and easy mass build for zerg.
Also, all the noob-friendly upgrades, the noobs (including myself) are still going to lose to the better players anyway so that isn't what I'm concerned about. I'm worried about the game as a spectator's sport and the competition at higher levels.
I don't want these features to ruin the progamer aspect, because in reality they aren't going to help me become better or win any more games.
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I think its stupid. It takes some skill & dexterity to constantly cycle through your 'factories' and build units when needed. A huge part of late game battles completely depend on your ability to handle the battles and build the correct units from multiple factories.
There is not as much micro needed in late game battles because of the sheer numbers of units so a super macro is not even needed. It just makes it so less skilled players can compete with the more skilled player without any effort.
Another thing to point out is that some pros have unit/building ratios perfectly figured out so they it gives them some resource advantage. They solely rely on their skill to be able to build from a lesser amount of 'factories' . Where a less skilled player will have 10 'factories' a pro will have say 5-6 and have the same amount of units because of their skill of being able to build from them more efficiently.
In warcraft 3 there isn't as many buildings to mass macro a unit of so its not that big of a deal. Plus the saved time is used for Microing less units.
I think maybe the selection of multiple static defense structures is ok but unit producers is not.
Also imagine a terran lifting all his structures at once to escape and issuing them all to move to somewhere safe. Thats very cheap.
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EPT
