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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On April 08 2013 06:39 Kaitlin wrote: First, Zimmerman hadn't "been instructed" by anyone to do or not do anything. A police dispatcher urged Zimmerman not to pursue Martin, who was African-American and wearing a hoodie at the time, but Zimmerman ended up in a confrontation with the unarmed teenager. Source | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
Your source is CBS news interviewing Trayvon's father ? | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On April 08 2013 06:48 Kaitlin wrote: Your source is CBS news interviewing Trayvon's father ? Despite being told by a dispatcher not to follow the teen, Zimmerman left his car and approached Martin. Neighbors called 911 to report a scuffle, some cries for help, and gunshots. Source (Huffington Post) Police told George Zimmerman not to follow Martin, and asked him where he was. However, because he was behind the town homes he could not see the nearest address. Source (Fox News) This is a well-reported and undisputed point. If you haven't read about it, you might not have done enough research on the incident. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On April 08 2013 06:39 Kaitlin wrote: edit: It's not confronting because confronting means: Meet (someone) face to face with hostile or argumentative intent. That's why. If anything Trayvon confronted Zimmerman, or they confronted each other eventually. Following him is not confronting. end edit A personal attack is "You are a moron". Commenting that, based on something they've said, they don't seem to have an understanding of something is not a personal attack. Saying someone doesn't understand the "world" around them is a pretty sensationalist and rude thing, absolutely personal. It's just as much an insult as "moron", if not worse. Your semantics are awful. Now, reading your post, it seems you don't have an understanding of the facts in this case. To avoid being accused of making a personal attack, I'll address them specifically. First, Zimmerman hadn't "been instructed" by anyone to do or not do anything. Second, Zimmerman followed, and tried to keep an eye on Zimmerman, but didn't "confront" him. The "confrontation" occurred after Martin had approached Zimmerman and asked if he had a problem. Also, I'm not sure what the relevance of "Martin was not committing any offense" has to do with anything. If I see someone in my neighborhood that I don't recognize, I am perfectly within the law and my rights to watch them from public property, whether they like it or not. My reason for watching them can be anything from wearing a red hat, to being black, to no reason at all. If that person doesn't like me watching them, they should either get over it, or move to somewhere they have a reasonable expectation of privacy such as inside their home. If they come over and physically attack me, I have a right to defend myself. You're absolutely sure that Martin instigated confrontation, without basing it off anything. Then next post you criticize someone's source for being "biased". At least they gave a source. I'll say it again: Zimmerman wasn't protecting anybody. The most we can assume is Zimmerman was protecting himself from somebody he admittedly chose to follow with a phone to his ear and a gun in his pocket... Zimmerman has given the court NOTHING to suggest that Trayvon Martin was doing anything "suspicious", let alone illegal, and thus deserved to be questioned by a man carrying a weapon. The fact that Zimmerman was on the phone with the police doesn't prove Trayvon was acting suspicious -- but it does prove that Zimmerman was following him without any real friendly intentions/ Trayvon is the one who died that day. Even if we ASSUME that Trayvon reacted violently towards Zimmerman without any provocation (because that makes sense /sarcasm) it doesn't excuse the fact that if Zimmerman hadn't been playing vigilante, no one would have died that day. The most we can assume for Zimmerman's sake is that Trayvon did assault Zimmerman without provocation (although I think following somebody with a phone to your ear and a gun in your pocket is a ridiculously stupid thing to do). In which case, Zimmerman isn't guilty of murder. But he is still, at the very least, without question, an idiot (or should I say, a moron who doesn't understand the world around him) who should not be carrying a gun around in public. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On April 08 2013 06:54 urashimakt wrote: Source (Huffington Post) Source (Fox News) This is a well-reported and undisputed point. If you haven't read about it, you might not have done enough research on the incident. Well-reported is laughable in this case. Undisputed ? The dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that" (follow him further). I'm getting tired of arguing about this point, because let's face it, it never stops. | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
On April 08 2013 07:23 Kaitlin wrote: Well-reported is laughable in this case. Undisputed ? The dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that" (follow him further). I'm getting tired of arguing about this point, because let's face it, it never stops. Fox news + huffington post covers a broad spectrum of opinion. The only audience base not covered by these two sources is the conspiracy theorists, so yes, I would say that if you are not in that camp then this point is undisputed. The reason why this is important is because it means that Zimmerman brought the matches to the fire. If he had stayed in his car like he was told to (you know, because he has no authority over other people... except his gun) then nobody would have died. This is the moment where he fucked up big time. Considering the phone logs show that Martin had already noticed Zimmerman following him from the vehicle, it is a small surprise that events proceeded the way they did. If we think of this like a game of timed chess, Zimmerman forced Trayvon to choose between two moves with uncertain merit. Trayvon could either 1. Run away or 2. Fight. Those are the two options I would weigh between if an older man was stalking me at night. Trayvon chose to fight. That is the reason why people don't like Zimmerman. While the whole getting beat up by a kid 3/4 your weight is still a mysterious topic of discussion, the overall sentiment towards Zimmerman is negative because he forced a confrontation when he had no legal right to do so, when he was in the most advantageous position (being armed). | ||
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ControlMonkey
Australia3109 Posts
On April 08 2013 01:05 AmericanNightmare wrote: What should I call someone who purposely distorts the truth and argues like a politician? You're point of view on this subject is a joke. Zim is innocent and will be free and all those people who wanted to hang him for legally defending himself will have many nights of trying to sleep in tear soaked pillows.. Assaulting a innocent man just watching out for his neighborhood.. You'd teach your kids this? Martins family got their money.. it's more than they deserve. A million dollars for not teaching your son how to properly deal with people in the outside world. I hope it was worth it. Yep, having a nuanced position is being a lying asshole. | ||
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Zaqwe
591 Posts
MYTH: The police dispatcher ordered George Zimmerman to stop following. The full non-emergency call recording (and transcripts) are available online. There is no need to rely on third party media misinterpretations of the recording. The reality is the dispatcher said: "Okay, we don't need you to do that." This is not a command. http://www.motherjones.com/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman MYTH: Zimmerman continued pursuing after the dispatcher informed him it wasn't necessary. The transcript shows Zimmerman responded by saying "Okay." when told that following wasn't necessary. The audio recording confirms his breathing returned to normal as he stood stationary and finished the phone call. Zimmerman's testimony also confirms that he stopped following. The location of the shooting further corroborates the fact that Zimmerman stopped following at this point and was in the same location for the last minutes of the phone call. The claim that he kept following is completely baseless. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest he followed after being told it was unnecessary. I am not sure if people making this claim are maliciously lying, or actually have succumbed to delusional fantasy. Reality doesn't fit with the anti-Zimmerman narrative so people who oppose Zimmerman seem to be fabricating their own alternate reality. MYTH: Trayvon was defending himself The timeline of events makes this impossible. Zimmerman was in the same location for over a minute after Trayvon had already ran away and Zimmerman lost sight of him. The house Trayvon was returning to was nearby and could have been reached several times over at a leisurely pace. The only possible way for the two to have met back up where they did is if Trayvon doubled back and ambushed George when he completed the phone call. The autopsy also confirms that the only wound on Trayvon was the bullet wound and a knuckle laceration. This shows unequivocally that not only was he unafraid and confident enough to double back, he also started the physical violence. http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back MYTH: It is completely unbelievable that Trayvon would decide to attack someone (but somehow believable that Zimmerman wanted to murder someone). Trayvon had been abusing DXM for over a year. Some side effects of DXM abuse include: “Major Risks of Occasional Use:
“Risks of Regular Use and Binges:
He also was not a model child and had been suspended from school several times. Furthermore as a male youth he is among one the most violent and criminal demographic in America. Assaulting someone due to a perceived insult (like calling police on him) is completely within character for who he was. It is even more likely considering his history of behavioural problems and abuse of drugs that would make any tendencies for violence far worse. Furthermore it should be noted he was on the phone with a female love interest. Impressing females is important to young men so he would probably feel pressure to appear tough. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/ What is truly unbelievable is the idea that the neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman who had just phoned police would for some inexplicable reason get bloodlust and want to commit murder. His wounds of course show he was defending himself, and the fact (confirmed by witnesses) that even on his back having his head pummelled he shouted for help and tried to resolve the situation without using lethal force. He only used it as a last resort when nobody came to his aid and his attacker (Trayvon) showed no mercy. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
and, once again, i would hate to see what people would think if they had access to my personal (or even public irc) records. if he was so susceptible to influence that he would try to act tough to impress his girlfriend, what exactly do you think he would post to impress his friends on facebook? the evidence is slim, and theconservativetreehouse reminds me of glenn beck. treating speculation and marginally supported opinions as fact. your first two myth "debunks" are supported by the police recording, but i recall there being missing time that nobody knows what happened except zimmerman and some questionable eye witnesses. as for him defending himself, the absence of physical damage to trayvon certainly indicates trayvon didnt take any punches, etc. but it does not answer whether he was reacting to a threat/danger. i agree that it sounds like bullshit that zimmerman was out for blood, but i also think it sounds like bullshit that trayvon was looking for a fight and threatened to kill zimmerman. something happened and unfortunately only zimmerman knows what that is. i dont think there is enough evidence to convince him, but i still think zimmerman is lying. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
I think the media and how they twisted the whole case was the real catalyst and I'm sure most would agree. They were showing pictures of Zimmerman in a jumpsuit and a younger picture of Trayvon where you wouldn't believe he would hurt a fly(I dunno if he would this day or not). The way everything was presented including the racism angle just piled up and I found it hard to believe that Trayvon was in any way or form responsible for the final outcome and that it was Zimmerman who did everything. Hearing the 911 calls of someone screaming for help figuring it must've been Trayvon(never heard either of their voices at this point) and seeing how the police didn't arrest him(figured that maybe his dad had a hand, conspiracy right?  ) also strengthened my thoughts that Zimmerman should be put away. Let's also not forget that NBC messed around with the audio recording for the police dispatcher and removed that whole question the police dispatcher asked about race which only fuelled the fire. As more stuff got released, my opinion slowly started to change. The tapes after his arrest were released by ABC and were debated for pages on end on here. Some claimed that they hid their logo on top of the head wounds including a website (DN? or ND?) zoomed in and enhanced the image that shows something on his head. Others, myself included couldn't see anything in the video since it was poor quality and figured that maybe the injuries were possibly made up(no evidence so far as it was). We eventually got the pictures 8 months or so after it happened but they fit into his story. The witnesses at the scene, most describing something that was either neutral or in Zimmerman's favour(he was on the bottom getting punched MMA style by Trayvon etc...) also had a role. Then we heard their histories. Zimmerman's history of trying to help the community and succeeded in some cases leading to him becoming the neighbourhood watch captain to his anger management classes that he took after he pushed a cop around that wanted to arrest his friend to his problems with his ex-wife and the restraining orders they got against each other. It seemed like he was in general, a guy that was trying to help as much as he could but he could be hot headed at times(he told the cop he didn't care that he was one when he found out about it). Trayvon's history of a young adult(incase kid insults anyone lol) going to school, doing career aptitude tests, SAT tests but also possibly dealing and using drugs. Overall though, some suspensions, some mishaps but it wasn't anything that was unexpected for someone his age(I don't condone drugs for the record lol). Overall, they both had their ups and downs so far and none seemed to have the upper hand although I did find Zimmerman's history of trying to do good in his community maybe slightly more touching seeing as how the community was terrorized by the constant robbers etc... Fast forward, then we have all these odds stuff happening. He gets charged with second degree murder but there are a lot of holes in that charge. We hear about the witnesses changing their statement that weakened Zimmerman's original case. Then just recently, the important witness of the prosecutor is caught lying which imo is going to hit their already weak case very hard considering that can come into play when she is being questioned. I mean, if she lied about her age and where she was on his funeral day, why can't she lie to boost his story? As it stands, it's hard for anyone to know what happened in the confrontation aside from what Zimmerman and Trayvon's girlfriend implied happened. What I think happened: From my understanding, Zimmerman felt responsible for the neighbourhood. It must've given him pride to be able to catch the robbers and be a watchful eye. He respected law enforcement as long as they were fair(he bashed them hard when some police officer's son beat a black homeless guy) and he probably took it upon himself to watch the community to make sure its safe since the police were always getting there late for robberies and such. For anyone that missed it, he originally bought his gun because some dog kept on hounding his wife and it was based on a recommendation by a police man(he originally opted for pepper spray as I recall). That night, when he went to Target, he was in his car when he saw Trayvon leave the convenience store. Seeing him walking a little wobbly, slowly in the rain checking houses out and not recognizing him in the community made him suspicious so he called the non-emergency line to inform the police. He didn't want him to get away so he followed him against the advice of the emergency personnel then he stopped as is evident by his breathing returning to normal. From Trayvor's side, he said that he saw Zimmerman stare at him in the car then get out and follow him. According to his girlfriend's account, he ran until he couldn't anymore. He eventually lost Zimmerman and that may have been due to Zimmerman stopping the pursuit so at this point, they are separate. What happens next is the unknown part and most confusing. According to Zimmerman's account, Trayvon saw him, went into a dark sidewalk then came back circling his car then left again. From reading his account, he didn't say he was scared but I think it was talked about that he said he was terrified so I find it a bit hard to swallow that he left his vehicle to find out what street he was on(not disagreeing with finding street name, just leaving safety of car). I disagree with this since from the call, we can see that he chased him and this corroborates with Trayvon's girlfriend's account. I think he chased him then he stopped close to the area of the shooting. Trayvon ran then got tired and walked. I think Zimmerman just walked around after he stopped talking with the dispatcher and ended up bumping into Trayvon in that area. Why Trayvon didn't just run back home when he had something like 2-3 minutes is beyond me but he tells his gf that he sees Zimmerman again, that he doesn't plan on running because he's tired(implied, girlfriend also says this) and that Zimmerman is getting closer to him. At this point, he asks Zimmerman, "why are you following me?" and Zimmerman responds with "what are you doing here?". After this, it gets even more blurry. His girlfriend says that she believes there was some struggle before the phone disconnected. Personally, I think the conversation got heated. Maybe Trayvon told him that it's not his concern or something and Zimmerman mentioned that he called the police on him so if he doesn't tell him anything, he'll have to tell them. Maybe Zimmerman tried to use a citizen arrest while the police arrived and Trayvon resisted for obvious reasons. Either way, from Zimmerman's injuries and Trayvon's knuckle wound, I think that Trayvon beat up on Zimmerman. I guess for me, I think it's quite possible that after words were exchanged, Zimmerman said what he wanted to say and decided to walk to his car then Trayvon jumped him or maybe it happened before he even turned out. Eventually, Zimmerman was getting beaten up, called for help and then fired his gun when he panicked since no one was responding and he felt that his life was threatened. Sorry for the really long text, but I wanted to see if anyone sees it from my perspective based on the evidence we have and I didn't think a small summary on how things unfolded even though the order isn't perfectly timed would be a bad idea lol | ||
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Aerisky
United States12128 Posts
As for me, I'm doomed to the hottest place in hell according to Dante, because I don't really have an opinion yet, nor do I know too much about the specifics. I'll have to bug daphreak on irc to enlighten me sometime ;P | ||
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capri1290
United States18 Posts
> Zimmerman was allowed to be carrying a firearm and was doing his job as community watch.Yes he probably racially profiled a young black kid. This is not illegal, also considering the details of what had been going on in his neighborhood + Show Spoiler + From January 1, 2011 through February 26, 2012, police were called to The Retreat at Twin Lakes 402 times.[68] During the 18 months preceding the February 26 shooting, Zimmerman called the non-emergency police line seven times. On five of those calls, Zimmerman reported suspicious looking men in the area, but never offered the men's race without first being asked by the dispatcher.[101][102][103] Crimes committed at The Retreat in the year prior to Martin's death included eight burglaries, nine thefts, and one shooting.[104] Twin Lakes residents said there were dozens of reports of attempted break-ins, which had created an atmosphere of fear in their neighborhood. In one case a woman with an infant hid in an upstairs room until the police arrived and scared away the intruders, who had already entered her home and disconnected the television.[61] In September 2011, the Twin Lakes residents held an organizational meeting to create a neighborhood watch program. Zimmerman was selected by neighbors as the program's coordinator, according to Wendy Dorival, Neighborhood Watch organizer for the Sanford Police Department.[5][105] Zimmerman "once caught a thief and an arrest was made...He helped solve a lot of crimes," said Cynthia Wibker, secretary of the homeowners association.[68] Three weeks prior to the shooting, on February 2, 2012, Zimmerman called police to report a young man peering into the windows of an empty Twin Lakes home. Zimmerman was told a police car was on the way, and he followed protocol, awaiting their arrival. By the time police arrived, the suspect had fled. On February 6, 2012, workers witnessed two young black men lingering in the yard of a Twin Lakes resident around the same time her home was burglarized. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. The next day police discovered the stolen laptop in the backpack of a young black man, which led to his arrest. Zimmerman identified this young man as the same person he had spotted peering into windows on February 2.[61] >I was always under the impression that Zimmerman had chased down Martin. I have read the full transcripts and Zimmerman's testimony that he stopped following Martin and proceeded to back to his car until confronted by Martin. Zimmerman's story seems reasonable to me , but either way cannot be 100% proven true or false. > There is proof Zimmerman was assaulted and proof he did not physically harm Martin except with a gun shot. This leads me to believe Martin was the instigator of the physical altercation. > The injuries to Zimmerman were blows to the face. This is not how I would expect someone to react if they were being threatened with a gun. If they do decide to fight instead of run, why would they not attempt to neutralize the firearm? It just doesn't make sense to fight someone because they're going to shoot you and do nothing but attempt to inflict as much damage as possible to their face. This is why I believe Martin did not know Zimmerman > Taking a couple punches to the face isn't going to kill you. Take enough blows to the head and you will die, especially if the aggressor finds your gun when you're unconscious. At what point does it become life threatening force? How do you know one more punch wouldn't have ultimately resulted in Zimmerman's death? > Zimmerman only fired one shot. This leads me to believe that as soon as he shot he felt the blows cease and did not need to fire again as he was no longer in danger. I feel alot of people judgement has been emotionally skewed in this case. Which makes sense because of some of the ludicrous story's which were initially reported about the shooting.It's hard to blame anyone for being emotional about this, especially people of color. This is a case of a man being racist, getting beaten on for it, then killing the guy he was being racist towards. It's easy to see the unfairness of it because you believe in your heart that Zimmerman was in the wrong from the start and Martin would never have beaten him up if he wasn't being racist. The verdict is going to depend on whether or not you could prove what position Zimmerman was in when he shot Martin. If he was in fact on top of Martin everything I've said goes out the window. My guess, based on the evidence and my interpretation of the evidence, is that Martin was on top of Zimmerman assaulting him when he was shot. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 08 2013 18:30 Aerisky wrote: Good post BigFan, you seem like one of the few who tried to maintain a level head and build your opinion from not only reading but also trying to logically interpret sources (as opposed to getting locked into some mentality and sticking around just to call people who disagree stupid... though there are certainly a number of those, perhaps including said accusers). As for me, I'm doomed to the hottest place in hell according to Dante, because I don't really have an opinion yet, nor do I know too much about the specifics. I'll have to bug daphreak on irc to enlighten me sometime ;P thanks, it took literally forever to read all the comments and the reports/listen to everything lol before I finally formed the opinion. I do have to say that I think that even engaging in a conversation with Trayvon as is evident by Trayvon's gf's record was a bad idea. He should've just called the dispatcher and went back home. Yes, I agree! Doomed to hottest place in hell for not having an opinion yet, shame on you! lol. I think not having an opinion is a good thing, means you are still open to either possibility although with an opinion, you can always debate it :D Never been on irc, so unfortunately, I can't bug daphreak for enlightenment about the law XD | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
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AmericanNightmare
United States98 Posts
On April 08 2013 02:33 woody60707 wrote: There seems to be always to be one on the internet. Yeah.. that bastard who asked questions only to be jumped on by the thread starter. Screw that guy. On April 08 2013 02:35 farvacola wrote: What, someone who can't put together a cogent sentence or someone who just can't stand a person who disagrees with them? Daphreak couldn't stand to "disagree" with me apparently. Being a person, who hates the medias tugging on heartstrings, I couldn't help but ask Daphreak for CLARIFICATION only to get jumped on. I'm in the wrong? And what do you mean by "someone who can't put together a cogent sentence" context wise? But please, I'll ask you now don't flip out on me for simply asking you what you mean. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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BallinWitStalin
1177 Posts
On April 08 2013 12:04 Zaqwe wrote: People keep repeating tired old myths about this case. A full year after the initial frenzy there's no excuse for still being so misinformed. MYTH: The police dispatcher ordered George Zimmerman to stop following. The full non-emergency call recording (and transcripts) are available online. There is no need to rely on third party media misinterpretations of the recording. The reality is the dispatcher said: "Okay, we don't need you to do that." This is not a command. http://www.motherjones.com/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman MYTH: Zimmerman continued pursuing after the dispatcher informed him it wasn't necessary. The transcript shows Zimmerman responded by saying "Okay." when told that following wasn't necessary. The audio recording confirms his breathing returned to normal as he stood stationary and finished the phone call. Zimmerman's testimony also confirms that he stopped following. The location of the shooting further corroborates the fact that Zimmerman stopped following at this point and was in the same location for the last minutes of the phone call. The claim that he kept following is completely baseless. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest he followed after being told it was unnecessary. I am not sure if people making this claim are maliciously lying, or actually have succumbed to delusional fantasy. Reality doesn't fit with the anti-Zimmerman narrative so people who oppose Zimmerman seem to be fabricating their own alternate reality. MYTH: Trayvon was defending himself The timeline of events makes this impossible. Zimmerman was in the same location for over a minute after Trayvon had already ran away and Zimmerman lost sight of him. The house Trayvon was returning to was nearby and could have been reached several times over at a leisurely pace. The only possible way for the two to have met back up where they did is if Trayvon doubled back and ambushed George when he completed the phone call. The autopsy also confirms that the only wound on Trayvon was the bullet wound and a knuckle laceration. This shows unequivocally that not only was he unafraid and confident enough to double back, he also started the physical violence. http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/evidence-that-trayvon-martin-doubled-back MYTH: It is completely unbelievable that Trayvon would decide to attack someone (but somehow believable that Zimmerman wanted to murder someone). Trayvon had been abusing DXM for over a year. Some side effects of DXM abuse include: He also was not a model child and had been suspended from school several times. Furthermore as a male youth he is among one the most violent and criminal demographic in America. Assaulting someone due to a perceived insult (like calling police on him) is completely within character for who he was. It is even more likely considering his history of behavioural problems and abuse of drugs that would make any tendencies for violence far worse. Furthermore it should be noted he was on the phone with a female love interest. Impressing females is important to young men so he would probably feel pressure to appear tough. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/05/24/update-26-part-2-trayvon-martin-shooting-a-year-of-drug-use-culminates-in-predictable-violence/ What is truly unbelievable is the idea that the neighborhood watchman George Zimmerman who had just phoned police would for some inexplicable reason get bloodlust and want to commit murder. His wounds of course show he was defending himself, and the fact (confirmed by witnesses) that even on his back having his head pummelled he shouted for help and tried to resolve the situation without using lethal force. He only used it as a last resort when nobody came to his aid and his attacker (Trayvon) showed no mercy. You know, from the language of your post I somehow feel like you wanted to mentally insert "black" in front of "male youth". I mean if you're okay making conclusions based on his age demographic, why not his race? The fact of the matter is that his age (other than the fact that he was a minor, legally speaking) is irrelevant for his guilt. You're trying to judge the actions of the individual, not the demographic. "What group of people" he belongs to has no relevance with respect to his innocence or guilt. | ||
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Nachtwind
Germany1130 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On April 08 2013 18:32 capri1290 wrote: > Taking a couple punches to the face isn't going to kill you. Take enough blows to the head and you will die, especially if the aggressor finds your gun when you're unconscious. At what point does it become life threatening force? How do you know one more punch wouldn't have ultimately resulted in Zimmerman's death? The test is "imminent danger of death or great bodily harm." Any type of significant blow to the head (such as punches) is going to fall into the great bodily harm category due to the risk of traumatic brain injury and permanent cognitive impairment. The verdict is going to depend on whether or not you could prove what position Zimmerman was in when he shot Martin. If he was in fact on top of Martin everything I've said goes out the window. My guess, based on the evidence and my interpretation of the evidence, is that Martin was on top of Zimmerman assaulting him when he was shot. Zimmerman probably isn't going to have to prove anything. The burden is on the state. All Zimmerman has to do is create reasonable doubt on whether he was justified in using deadly force. I really don't think that that will be a particularly difficult task. | ||
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Kaitlin
United States2958 Posts
On April 08 2013 23:40 xDaunt wrote: The test is "imminent danger of death or great bodily harm." Any type of significant blow to the head (such as punches) is going to fall into the great bodily harm category due to the risk of traumatic brain injury and permanent cognitive impairment. Not to mention anything that can render him unable to defend himself since at that point the gun can be taken and used against him. This is why police justify shootings more often than most people think they should. It doesn't matter if the person is unarmed, the presence of the officer's gun elevates the situation. So, for Zimmerman, even as he said it wasn't "his gun" it was "the gun". He was explaining his mindset that he was concerned about losing his ability to maintain his gun and having it used against him. I'm sure there are people who will argue he shouldn't have had the gun then, or that since he brought the gun to the party (so to speak) that it's his problem, but it's not how the law sees it. | ||
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