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On July 19 2012 10:13 Miltonkram wrote:
I think it's possible that Risen and austinmcc engineered a fakeclaim play to try and draw out scum. This would allow the timing of Risen's cop claim to make sense.
@ Risen
This possibility popped into my head and I just need to get an answer. Risen are you fakeclaiming cop and are you the mason? At this point, if you are the mason I'd just like you to claim since this cop claim has taken up so much of the discussion today.
Lol, I want to fake claim mason so bad just to see what happens when I'm lynched and flip cop after the real mason reveals himself. You guys would freak out post game, and I might catch a ban for throwing.
But no, just a cop rofl
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So, another question for Risen:
What will you do moving forward if I am lynched today and I don't flip scum? I'm not even asking you to believe that I'm not scum, just from a purely hypothetical context, I would like you to explain what your next course of action would be.
You were so convinced Day 1 that Vivax was scum, and you were wrong and then disappeared and "grieved" over how wrong you were. Will it be the same?
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On July 19 2012 10:22 Keirathi wrote:
So, another question for Risen:
What will you do moving forward if I am lynched today and I don't flip scum? I'm not even asking you to believe that I'm not scum, just from a purely hypothetical context, I would like you to explain what your next course of action would be.
You were so convinced Day 1 that Vivax was scum, and you were wrong and then disappeared and "grieved" over how wrong you were. Will it be the same?
I'll check gonzaw tonight and if I'm alive move on from there. Scum check = push him, get myself lynched, then pray for gon/matt lynch. If town check I freak out, break down into gibberish and eat my hat.
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@ Risen
Ok, thanks for the quick answer.
I reread Mattchew's case against gonzaw. I think he's onto something. I'd advise everyone to look at it. My reads have shifted like crazy over the course of the day. For now I'm going with Keirathi and Risen both town and gonzaw scum. If I find any new evidence to add while reading gonzaw's filter (ugh) I'll post it.
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Ebwop: also along with eating my hat I probably get lynched.
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On July 19 2012 10:29 Miltonkram wrote:
@ Risen
Ok, thanks for the quick answer.
I reread Mattchew's case against gonzaw. I think he's onto something. I'd advise everyone to look at it. My reads have shifted like crazy over the course of the day. For now I'm going with Keirathi and Risen both town and gonzaw scum. If I find any new evidence to add while reading gonzaw's filter (ugh) I'll post it.
Noooooo it's workingggggg, his suicide pact and lynch the cop play have convinced people not to vote for him. Howwwwwwww
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@ Risen
Like I said before, try and look at his play from a VT perspective. His plan actually makes sense. Turn off your tunnel vision and take a look at gonzaw.
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I'm starting to like this game more, because I have found scum.
Listen up town, Mattchew is scum.
On July 12 2012 22:39 Mattchew wrote:
Strong I feel like the entirety of your posts could easily be made by either town or scum, if this is you trying to establish your alignment you have done a poor job with me. Your post is longwinded and looks to explain your thought process, but we both know that 95% of your posts content has nothing to do with this game at all. Not only that but your early attempt at a read on marv does not even account for his other posts in the thread. And your reasoning for voting him from this game is too, extremely weak.
Let's start here. Look at what he tells s&b. Your posts thus far could come from either town or scum i.e. are neutral. He then goes on listing problems with it.
-longwinded
-off topic
-bad read
-bad reasoning for vote
...and the conclusion from this is neutral. After listing reasons for finding something suspicious, your end result should be 'I am suspicious of you.'
More, who accuses someone of not looking definitively town in their first few posts? Someone who already knows the alignment of the person they are addressing. It wasn't 's&b your first few posts are crap and scummy looking,' it was 's&b you haven't shown me you are town in your first few posts.'
Look now at what he did on day 1. This was basically his scum-hunting:
On July 13 2012 02:43 Mattchew wrote:Marv I want to disagree with you so bad, but I was wrong about something JUST LIKE this is MTG mafia... hmm I don't like the way sciberbia has been posting... it all seems forced as hell like the way he says Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 13:31 sciberbia wrote:gonzaw asked for some thoughts on Risen, strongandbig, and Mattchew. Obviously there is not much to go on yet, but here are my thoughts so far  He clarifies that he's only saying this cause gonzaw asked, kinda reads to me like hes paranoid about not answering a question in the thread
On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote:Lets kill talis, Keirathi or scib Talis cause he's proposing anti town plans and then backpeddling super fast Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced scib cause he seems hesitant to post, and he posts this (it was spoilered) Show nested quote +Obviously, we should be lynching every day until we have good reason not to. I will push to get my scumreads lynched, but I will prefer any lynch to a No-Lynch.
I'm not a big fan of lynching lurkers. Obviously, lurking hurts town, but I don't think lurking is all that alignment-indicative. Seeing as our goal is to lynch scum, I will only give slight preference to lynching the lurker over the active player, everything else being even.
as he has not pushed a single read yet
This would be a weak day 1 from anybody, but it is especially so from a vet. He leaves his vote on sciberbia and drops off the face of the earth.
Compare that now to day 2, where he goes balls to the wall trying to get Talismania lynched. He is sure of himself, he convinces others to get on board. He basically doesn't leave it alone until he gets what he wants: a Talis lynch. Have a look:
On July 16 2012 03:10 Mattchew wrote:
Drop you should be voting Talis with me, what do you think makes solstice more scummy than Talis?
On July 16 2012 05:42 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 03:43 talismania wrote:
also wtf happened to your suspicions of sciberbia - what made you change your mind there? still suspicious, just sure of you, nice scummy deflection btw and risen, do you not agree with my case on Talis? What do you find wrong with it or townie about him
On July 16 2012 07:05 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2012 07:01 gonzaw wrote:On July 16 2012 06:55 Mattchew wrote:On July 16 2012 06:49 gonzaw wrote:On July 16 2012 06:45 Mattchew wrote:
So I couldn't have left 2 hours before the lynch? I wasn't voting Vivax, and my questions werent answered before I had left. Not without explaining why you kept your vote on sciberbia (if you knew you weren't going to be back before the deadline) ro explaining anything at all or if you still thought sciberbia was scum. Or anything at all basically. People not giving you an exact vote count isn't an excuse to waste your vote, leave the thread and come back 24 hours later without giving a shit about the lynch. I had given my opinion on Vivax, because I wasn't confident in it doesn't mean I was ever going to vote to lynch him. So I left my opinions and my vote as they were Vivax wasn't the 100% sure lynch at that point. Dropbear already had votes, and to be honest you could have voted for someone else like austin, Keriathi, etc since they had votes as well. What made you keep your vote on sciberbia and not even consider changing it? What made you not even discuss about it? Or were you in too much of a hurry to explain stuff? If so you could have mentioned you were in a hurry before so we'd avoid this whole mess I was in a hurry, but I am sick of playing in games and making weekend excuses for not being able post as much as I would like. Read my case on Talis, tell me where I am wrong or vote with me on him.
On July 16 2012 07:06 Mattchew wrote:
S&B your thoughts on talis? I want him dead
This is a mismatch, like he flipped a switch and all of a sudden he is a scum-finding machine. It also reeks again of Mattchew already knowing someone's alignment. Now let's move to after the lynch.
On July 17 2012 12:08 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +But later (after your D1 fiasco) you just parked your vote on talis, and spent 80% of your posts just going "what do you think of talis" or "vote talis" or "I want talis dead" or "talis talis talis". Like, no offense to scib, but I would put a lot of the weight on Talis actually getting lynched on me forcing attention onto him. Scib's case was good and all, but would you agree that without me pushing individuals (not just HEY THREAD I MADE A CASE) was the real reason for all the votes on Talis? I wanted to get Talis lynched, something you flipflopped on a lot which I am extremely suspicious of. I think I did a pretty good job of bringing people from "I would lynch x,x, and talis," to actually voting and getting on Talis. But thats enough for patting myself on the back.
What is he doing here? Why does he care so much about who is getting the credit for Talis' lynch? What's more, he's justifying it to the person who he is the next most suspicious of after Talis' lynch. Why even bother? Because who is getting the credit directly affects how well Mattchew's bus on Talismania worked.
Now let's move on to night2/day2. He is supposedly trying to get Gonzaw lynched. Let's look at him pushing this case:
On July 18 2012 13:57 Mattchew wrote:
Wait Risen, why dont you think gonzaw is scum anymore?
On July 18 2012 14:54 Mattchew wrote:
Yeah so we should be lynching Gonzaw, cause hes scum
The end. That is, until I called him out on it, then he is all about getting us on-board. This does not match with how he was pushing Talis.
The early part of day 2 turned out to be a crucial time for Mattchew if he wanted his target lynched. At the time (earlier today) there was a lot of finger-pointing going on/discussion of things not gonzaw. I summarized it before, but I'll repeat it for shits and giggles.
-Dropbear wants to kill Risen
-s&b is suspicious of Risen
-risen is suspicious of keir
-we talk about the NK
-we talk about the set-up
-we talk about the mason claim
We are definitely not focusing on gonzaw at that time. So Mattchew should be seeking to get us on track. But instead he is doing this:
On July 19 2012 06:55 Mattchew wrote:
Gonzaw you have a seven page filter, mind reposting your accusations against me
'Gonzaw, my #1 scum read, could you please post your suspicions of me again so I can address them?'
Doesn't fit. We were half way through day 2, starting to peel away from Mattchew's target, and he is asking his scum read to remake his case against him.
Now for some extraneous stuff:
-here's him swinging the WIFOM bat around:
On July 13 2012 04:55 Mattchew wrote:
The moment you think marv is scum, is the moment you should realize hes town.
Also, marv and gonz, what do you think of scib
On July 13 2012 07:43 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 07:24 Keirathi wrote:On July 13 2012 07:13 Mattchew wrote:
Keirathi cause he's posting super carefully, and his reads seem forced
Thats because they were kind of forced. I was specifically asked to make reads, so I responded with the two single scummiest things I've noticed. But I have a method to the way I play this game. Take a look at this. I take notes like this for a reason: so I can recognize patterns in people's play, rather than harping on one or two scummy things they've done. That's why I'm hesitant to make hard reads early. So you know that you do this as town, whats to stop you from doing so as scum?
Here's some buddying:
On July 12 2012 23:57 Mattchew wrote:
Marv how fucking buddied up are we right <3
On July 17 2012 13:55 Mattchew wrote:
And yeah I probably took too much credit from scib... meh <3 he's my bud now <3
NK shit:
I don't care how you want to WIFOM around this, I have a very hard time thinking a scum team would leave Mattchew alone on N2 after he just wtfpwned Talis on day 2. He is a vet and a known good player. There was no N1 RB, so they could be reasonably sure that there was no JK.
s&b does this fit with your early game thoughts on Marv? ;D
His dealings with Risen:
Here is an older read on Risen:
On July 17 2012 11:04 Mattchew wrote:I just read Risen's entire filter, and couldn't find any inconsistencies or holes in logic. Even his read on me I can't really argue with. I haven't been as active as I should this game and while I don't think I have tried to fly under the radar, I could see where one may draw that conclusion. His reads are constantly evolving and changing more WAY more than when I played with him as scum, and he basically started and got Vivax lynched. While I didn't agree with the lynch + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2012 03:27 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 03:23 marvellosity wrote:
What do you see in Vivax that makes you think he might be town? his effort and his not giving a fuck style he didn't push it in a scummy way. Late voters of Vivax should actually be looked at more strongly. This leads me to my next scum candidate. Gonzaw. I was waiting to push this until Talis flipped because A. I wanted to see if he was scum and B. I wanted to keep the conversation on Talis. I will make my case before deadline tomorrow. I have a lot of it mapped out in my head just not written down yet and I want to keep up with the fast pace of Bureaurcracy Mafia tonight
I question him on this. Risen has been making logic holes the size of Jupiter since his claim.
On July 19 2012 07:16 Mattchew wrote:
Not exactly, because of his gonzaw play which I don't fully understand, but I don't think that changes my read on him in anyway
A read, that lead off with the strength of Risen's logic and consistency, is not affected by Risen's recent logic and inconsistency? This really smells scummy.
One last thing. Look at his opinion of the current state of the thread when we are talking about anything EXCEPT his top scum read:
On July 19 2012 07:18 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:16 s0Lstice wrote:
I also really like how Mattchew is concerning himself with answering the accusations of his top scum read, instead of pushing said read right now, as the town is losing focus. have we lost focus? I think a very high percentage of posts today are about who people think are scum and who to lynch today
He thinks it's good that we are trying to find scum outside of gonzaw, even though he has already found it in gonzaw.
So, to sum up:
-shitty day 1 scum hunting
-extreme pursuit of Talis on day 2...
-...which doesn't match at all his pursuit of the gonzaw read
-lack of pursuit on his 2nd main scumread
-play which exhibits signs of Mattchew knowing people's alignment
-very bad logic in his read on Risen
-WIFOM batting us all
-buddying
-being alive after N2
I think Mattchew is scum and I want us to kill him today
##vote Mattchew
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and just for the record I think Risen is his scum buddy. but we'll return to that after Mattchew is dead.
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No, it doesn't. No town player would advocate lynching the cop claim knowing scum will kill him that night. See drop/keir's lynch the cop play.
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On July 19 2012 10:39 s0Lstice wrote:
and just for the record I think Risen is his scum buddy. but we'll return to that after Mattchew is dead.
Same thing I said about gonzaw applies here. I'll lynch matt if you promise to lynch gonzaw if he flips red and keir if he flips green.
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Ebwop: assuming I'm dead tonight
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No, we are lynching Mattchew today.
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oops misunderstood. no i will not promise to lynch gonzaw after lynching matt
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On July 19 2012 10:44 s0Lstice wrote:
oops misunderstood. no i will not promise to lynch gonzaw after lynching matt
Then good luck getting my vote on him, and as a townie I'm one of the votes you'll need.
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i'm campaigning for town votes dude not scum votes 
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On July 19 2012 10:53 s0Lstice wrote:i'm campaigning for town votes dude not scum votes
You're lucky I know you're town and understand where you're coming from lol
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I'm off to bed now.
Town, read my case, read Matt's filter, and then vote.
Mattchew must die.
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Hrmm well this is odd. I find gonzaw, risen, and s0Lstice significantly more suspicious than everyone else, and all three want Mattchew dead. Interesting...
@s0Lstice
Are you really that sure about Mattchew? Honestly I see a few valid points in your case, but I just don't see how you are so convinced.
points that could easily apply to me just as well as mattchew (if not more)
-being alive after N2
-extreme pursuit of Talis on day 2...
-...which doesn't match at all his pursuit of the gonzaw read
-lack of pursuit on his 2nd main scumread
-play which exhibits signs of knowing people's alignment
-shitty day 1 scum hunting
From what I've heard of Mattchew, his D1 scumhunting was at least as good this game as it normally is.
-very bad logic in his read on Risen
I'll let Mattchew answer for this one. Maybe his read on Risen has changed in light of recent events.
-WIFOM batting us all
This isn't especially scummy
-buddying
at least it is blatant buddying as opposed to sneaky buddying. Lynch a scum with me today and I won't mind if you buddy with me a bit. Anyway, it seems in character for Mattchew. Like when he blatantly sheeps reads off marv
Overall, I just don't find anything particularly damning. I'd hate to lynch Mattchew today. I find risen, s0Lstice, and gonzaw all definitively scummier than Mattchew.
@s0Lstice
What do you think about gonzaw? Are you so sure about Mattchew + Risen that you think gonzaw is town?
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sciberbia, if I have to hit you with a blackjack and drag you to the 'vote Mattchew' booth, I will xD
yes I am extremely sure. I read gonzaw as scummy, but Mattchew infinitely more so.
I will revisit Gonzaw after Matt's flip. Go through Matt's filter and see how hard it is to get him to talk about Risen. He said he would on day 1, and then didn't. I asked him again, and he wouldn't until after Tali's flip. After Tali's flip, i had to ask him AGAIN.
Matt's read on Risen not being affected by Risen's recent play creates a strong linkage for me.
Like I said though, today we kill Mattchew.
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EPT
