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On July 19 2012 07:27 s0Lstice wrote:
@mattchew - from your standpoint, yes. risen is all over keir, s&b seems to be suspicious of risen, dropbear wants to kill risen, gonzaw wants to kill you. the only person who is firmly in your camp at this time seems to be sciberbia.
aside from all that, we've been talking about the set-up, NK stuff, the other mason etc....and you don't seem to care that we aren't talking about gonzaw
your push on gonzaw feels very, very different from your push on Talis so far.
So, why you not voting gonzaw
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lol I walked right into that one.
the truth though is that I have to think on it more. Your change in behavior has raised my eyebrows, and lends a little credence to the idea of you bussing Talis.
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On July 19 2012 07:29 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:27 s0Lstice wrote:
@mattchew - from your standpoint, yes. risen is all over keir, s&b seems to be suspicious of risen, dropbear wants to kill risen, gonzaw wants to kill you. the only person who is firmly in your camp at this time seems to be sciberbia.
aside from all that, we've been talking about the set-up, NK stuff, the other mason etc....and you don't seem to care that we aren't talking about gonzaw
your push on gonzaw feels very, very different from your push on Talis so far.
So, why you not voting gonzaw
If gonzaw is lynched today and flips scum I'm going to be like a rabid dog tunneling you. I really think keir is the scum here, though. Why don't you think keir is scum? Have to plug my computer in still and I'm procrastinating on my case
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If final two scum are outside drop/keir/matt/gonzaw I'm going to freak out. Maybe pull ablazinghand rofl
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I need to backtrack a bit. I find Keirathi's "giving up" post extremely scummy.
Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 16:46 Risen wrote:
It's hilarious how scummy keirathi's posting is. (i guess I'm the only one seeing it though since you have to take my being a cop as true to see it that way)
And maybe strongandbig sees it. Then fucking lynch me today so you can get past your tunnel vision that you had with Vivax and maybe make an actual good read. I'm serious, as much as I don't want us to lynch a townie today, I would rather Risen not be biased and tunneling me and not trying to find the real scum. ##Vote: Keirathi
If he were town I think he would continue to try and push a Risen lynch for the reasons he has claimed, to either hit scum or get close-to-confirmed town players. Keirathi giving up does nothing to help town or help us figure out whether Risen is truly a cop or not. Because of this, the only motivation I can see for Keirathi "giving up" is as a gambit to get town players to view him as town. Furthermore the timing is off. Keirathi gives up when there is still plenty of time to pursue cases. I've seen plenty of town players give up close to the deadline, but never 24 hours before it. This makes me think Keirathi's frustration is a ploy.
Where did his suspicion of Risen's cop claim go? He states "I would rather Risen not be biased and tunneling me and not trying to find the real scum." It seems like he's treating Risen as if he knows Risen is town. If Keirathi is town, he would pursue a case against Risen harder and search for reasons to distrust Risen's cop-claim. I don't think he's come up with any decent reasons not to trust the claim. I'm not done reading Keirathi's filter, but this screams scum to me.
##Vote: Keirathi
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On July 19 2012 08:07 Miltonkram wrote:I need to backtrack a bit. I find Keirathi's "giving up" post extremely scummy. Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 16:46 Risen wrote:
It's hilarious how scummy keirathi's posting is. (i guess I'm the only one seeing it though since you have to take my being a cop as true to see it that way)
And maybe strongandbig sees it. Then fucking lynch me today so you can get past your tunnel vision that you had with Vivax and maybe make an actual good read. I'm serious, as much as I don't want us to lynch a townie today, I would rather Risen not be biased and tunneling me and not trying to find the real scum. ##Vote: Keirathi If he were town I think he would continue to try and push a Risen lynch for the reasons he has claimed, to either hit scum or get close-to-confirmed town players. Keirathi giving up does nothing to help town or help us figure out whether Risen is truly a cop or not. Because of this, the only motivation I can see for Keirathi "giving up" is as a gambit to get town players to view him as town. Furthermore the timing is off. Keirathi gives up when there is still plenty of time to pursue cases. I've seen plenty of town players give up close to the deadline, but never 24 hours before it. This makes me think Keirathi's frustration is a ploy. Where did his suspicion of Risen's cop claim go? He states "I would rather Risen not be biased and tunneling me and not trying to find the real scum." It seems like he's treating Risen as if he knows Risen is town. If Keirathi is town, he would pursue a case against Risen harder and search for reasons to distrust Risen's cop-claim. I don't think he's come up with any decent reasons not to trust the claim. I'm not done reading Keirathi's filter, but this screams scum to me. ##Vote: Keirathi
Read my next post.
I'm still willing to die. And I wouldn't really say I'm giving up, I'm giving Risen a chance to be useful if he is actually the cop.
Its a terrible play from a townie perspective, and I feel bad for saying it, but if I do die, then when I lay out my cases and flip town, you can look back and read them without the bias of thinking that I'm scum.
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EBWOP: also, just because I'm suspicious of the claim doesn't mean that I 100% believe it is fake. I think there's a very real possibility that he is telling the truth, I just can't make a good case for *WHY* he would do it. If there was a good motivation, I would be much more inclined to believe it, which was why I said I believed it at first when I thought he had an actual scum check on gonzaw.
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@ Keirathi
I really don't like the fact that you were willing to vote yourself. I don't see that as being helpful in any way if you're town.
For the record, I do see the point that is being made against Risen. If he were town, wouldn't he at least consider the prospect of being lynched to get confirmed town players? I don't see what is so crazy about the proposal that Keirathi and DropBear have made. I'm rereading Risen's filter as well. Maybe there is something scummy to be found.
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EBWOP: The build-up to Risen's play looks authentic, but his play since his claim has looked really scummy. I'm not sure how clearly I made that point in my last post.
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@miltonkram, @risen
Can we please not lynch Keirathi today? I just reread his filter and I don't think he is all that likely to be scum.
Risen's case
Risen, if you are town, I really think you are being influenced by OMGUS and confirmation bias here. How is town keirathi supposed to know you are a real cop? I really don't see anything alarming that keirathi has said D3. Please try to reread with the mindset that keirathi is town, was understandably confused by your claim, and understandably cannot be sure that you are cop. If you are still convinced he is scum, please explain with specific reference to keirathi's posts what exactly is so scummy.
Miltonkram's case
I will grant you that the post you have quoted is suspicious. Town sciberbia would never ever vote myself in a situation like that. But keirathi already has a history of giving up early (see mid-D1). Maybe he is just an easily frustrated person. Still, I see your logic and grant this is suspicious.
However, I don't think it is suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. You said yourself that you haven't even considered the rest of his filter. Since D2, he has started giving me some townie vibes.
A couple of townie points for keirathi
1) Keirathi's top suspects during D2 were me and Mattchew, the people pushing for a talis lynch. It was pretty clear IMO that talis would end up getting lynched. If keirathi is scum, does it really make sense to spend several posts throwing suspicion on me and Mattchew, when he knows that talis is going to flip red, making Mattchew and me look townie?
2) Consider keirathi's reaction to the cop claim. Let's throw out the possibility that keirathi and Risen are both mafia (doesn't seem likely). Now, I think it is pretty clear that keirathi genuinely misread Risen's post and thought Risen had a guilty on gonzaw (I was confused as well). If keirathi was scum and gonzaw is not, wouldn't he know that cop could not possibly have a red check on gonzaw, and therefore not misread so easily? I think this is good evidence that keirathi is not scum unless gonzaw is as well. But a keirathi + gonzaw scumteam is pretty unlikely if you consider D1. In conclusion, this is good evidence toward keirathi's towniness.
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@Risen
On July 19 2012 07:36 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:29 Mattchew wrote:On July 19 2012 07:27 s0Lstice wrote:
@mattchew - from your standpoint, yes. risen is all over keir, s&b seems to be suspicious of risen, dropbear wants to kill risen, gonzaw wants to kill you. the only person who is firmly in your camp at this time seems to be sciberbia.
aside from all that, we've been talking about the set-up, NK stuff, the other mason etc....and you don't seem to care that we aren't talking about gonzaw
your push on gonzaw feels very, very different from your push on Talis so far.
So, why you not voting gonzaw If gonzaw is lynched today and flips scum I'm going to be like a rabid dog tunneling you. I really think keir is the scum here, though. Why don't you think keir is scum? Have to plug my computer in still and I'm procrastinating on my case
I really fail to see how gonzaw flipping scum makes mattchew more likely to be scum. Matthcew is currently suggesting we lynch gonzaw. Gonzaw is suggesting we lynch Mattchew. Wouldn't the natural conclusion be that exactly one of them is scum (or possibly neither). But this is the second time you've suggested that they are both scum. Please explain why Mattchew becomes more suspicious every time he leads a lynch on somebody who flips scum.
On July 19 2012 06:31 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 03:26 strongandbig wrote:
was keirathi your top scum read at that point? No. He became my top read following his reaction to the gonzaw bus
Can you please explain precisely what "gonzaw bus" you are referring to here?
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@sciberbia: I assume he was talking about me and s0lstice jumping on gonzaw after his cop claim. But it was more of a wagon, than a bus (unless Risen+gonzaw are scumteam?)
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So his defense of tali gives him town points in your eyes? Wut... It was NOT clear tali would be lynched until strongandbig sealed it late. Why are you missing that? Scum trying to clear his buddy? (purely rhetorical, at this point someone has to be a townie defending keir)
want to know why I'm so sure of keir and now drop being scum? they are claiming they want to confirm townies from my lynch, but to me that just means they don't want to be forced to night kill me. I'm a COP. I'm checking one of them tonight. They HAVE to kill me.
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@keirathi: perhaps. I would like to hear risen explain it
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Also regarding "giving up": maybe I am giving up, but I was giving up with good intentions. When I made that post, I was obviously frustrated, but my mindset was that I would be more useful to the town dead than alive. Which was basically the premise I made for lynching Risen to begin with. It wasn't that I necessarily thought he was lying, but until he dies then it all amounts to exactly nothing.
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On July 19 2012 08:57 sciberbia wrote:
@keirathi: perhaps. I would like to hear risen explain it
Nope keir nailed it. I just mixed up bus and wagon when using it. I wanted to see who would jump on the easy case, add to this keir/drop's insistence on lynching me so they don't have to deal with me tonight? Boom. Done deal.
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@Risen
Let me just make sure I understand this. Please correct me on the points I am wrong
1) On N1, you got an inno check on strongandbig
2) On N2, you got an inno check on s0Lstice
3) You did not think gonzaw was scum at the start of D3
4) You intentionally started a wagon on gonzaw just to see who would jump on the wagon
5) You think that keirathi is scum because he jumped on the wagon so easily, and he also is interested in lynching you
6) You still do not think gonzaw is scum
7) You mistakenly used the word 'bus' when referring to you (Risen) starting a wagon on gonzaw
Also, can you please explain why Mattchew would become more suspicious as a result of gonzaw flipping scum? This is the third time I'm asking you.
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The only thing that really gives me pause in this situation is: if Risen was scum, how is he planning? to get out of being "absolutely sure" when I flip town, especially when he already super tunneled Vivax on day1? It really doesn't make sense to trade 1 for 1 at this point, so I'm really boggled.
Why does town Risen claim in the first place? I can make a case for scum Risen, but I still can't think of solid motivation for cop Risen to claim.
But why would scum Risen want to 1-for-1 trade?
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On July 19 2012 07:26 DropBear wrote:Ok one last post before bed. Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 07:12 s0Lstice wrote:
Dropbear, did you even try to read Risen's filter to see if his claim made sense? I don't think you did, and that's pretty scummy. I did read his filter. Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 07:00 Risen wrote:On July 17 2012 06:59 talismania wrote:
i should get some time to defend fuckimn onehanded and everything Sorry dude. I honestly shouldn't be voting for you since I haven't built a case on you. My town reads are voting you, though. #whatacopout Breadcrumb is here. BEFORE talismania's flip. At this point Risen has had only ONE check, which came back as townie. At this point any possible mafia role is in play, including framer. For the life of me I can't see any reason why you would be so obvious at this point. This is also before austin's flip confirming the existence of a mason/masons. Not only this he is under significant suspicion at this point. You yourself were pushing him quite hard. There is no reason why mafia would shoot him before his breadcrumb/claim that I can think of. I don't get the claim at all.
Quoting this because it was never answered.
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I'm fairly certain I answered. With scum gonzaw matt is the only link I see. I think he's playing to his #1 townie meta if gonzaw is scum. Therefore, scum gonzaw = scum matt.
And what wasn't answered there keir?
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EPT
