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On March 16 2010 09:25 mistermetal wrote:Show nested quote +So feedback totally rapes terran but most protoss haven't been abusing this yet?] The thing is, feedback is nearly useless, you rarely see HTs alone, they are with the toss army, and emp has a longer range then feedback, so its just better to emp the toss army/hts its effectively killing them, no energy, no shields, no attack.
Please don't just make up things and spew bullshit in my thread. Feedback has a longer range than EMP which is what makes this feasable.
GTFO
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I feel like abilities are OP in general right now. The battle shouldn't hinge entirely on who gets the first spell off (for it negates the opponent's spells and does damage), but rather a mix of who has more/better units, position, and spells. Instead of trying to make snipershot hard counter feedback hard counter emp hard counter storm, they should nerf all of them imo.
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Maybe this has been mentioned already, but I don't like Feedback on HT's at all. It's a direct counter to Terran's HT counter - Ghosts. Too many skirmishes will be won or lost based solely on whether the Feedback or EMP hits first.
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On March 16 2010 09:25 mistermetal wrote:
[quoteSo feedback totally rapes terran but most protoss haven't been abusing this yet?]
The thing is, feedback is nearly useless, you rarely see HTs alone, they are with the toss army, and emp has a longer range then feedback, so its just better to emp the toss army/hts its effectively killing them, no energy, no shields, no attack.[/QUOTE]
please read a wiki or read the op before using incorrect data to come to pointless conclusions.
feedback cast range is higher. What the op is trying to say is. when your terran army is moving foward, when they come to emp the front of the toss army, HT feedback range is long enough to eat up ghosts before they can cast their own emp on a toss army.
at the topic. TvP really comes down to who can emp or feedback/storm first. If terran gets the emps off its complete rape. And if HT get feedback off and storm the terran army gets rolled like a hot knife through butter. Sure people can do cute things to try and out micro their opponent but it really just comes down to emp over feedback/storm. Unless terran goes on a different tech path that does not use bio this match up is kinda depressing. emp is just to effective vs everything toss has so doesn't matter to much.
As for the snipe ability, i don't know if thats going to help at all emp and feedback need to be reworked :/
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Siegetanks and bunkers are obviously really good protection against HTs. Not saying tanks are the current choice unit vs P, but if someone can find a way to work it in or if Blizzard indeed buffs mech we may see things flip.
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On March 16 2010 08:55 L wrote:
Why can't T just cloak his ghost, scan his own army to kill obs, then engage? If you do that, pretty much the entirety of templar tech becomes useless and you win right there.
Alternatively, why can't he EMP a medivac, put the ghost in there and drop it to emp when needed?
I really don't see how this is broken, or could be come broken.
Could someone please address the questions in this post for me?
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On March 16 2010 10:03 -orb- wrote:
How do you figure BCs are useless. BCs are crazy powerful
TvT: BCs can only be used if you have complete air control already as an easy way to finish off a match you have a huge lead in, a handful of vikings can kill any number of BC's unless you build up a massive yamato stockpile.
TvZ: Impractical, typical ZvT armies have snare and mass anti air already, Corruptors can also semi-kite by firing a volley and moving back, taking only tiny amounts of damage as the BC gets off a tick or 2 of it's rapid fire attack before it's out of range and has to lumber after the unit, Hydras can also do this to a lesser extent off creep and with ease on creep.
TvP: Stalkers can semi-kite these easily even without blink by shooting a volley and falling back, taking only minimal damage like the corruptor would do. Many toss prefer not to use stalkers, but that's ok because HT own the living hell out of BCs as well. There is literally nothing a BC can do to a HT. Yamato takes so long to cast that HTs can shift click feedback and get every single one of the BCs before a single yamato goes off, doing significant damage as well. BCs are also so horrifyingly slow that a HT can just waddle away from a pack of BCs while throwing storms behind it and the BCs cannot catch up to attack it.
Their air to ground dps is impressive on paper, but due to it's rapid fire/low damage attack and glacial move speed, it can be kited with ease by any race. I feel it's actually worse than it's bw counterpart, doing half the dps in 1 attack is more useful than high dps rapid-fire. Smart-cast yamato is very strong, however having a huge enough fleet of BCs that this can actually be used to advantage happens only in TvT since those matches can easily take 45 minutes and not be considered abnormal... (Vikings still own them silly in cost-effectiveness)
This unit needs an overhaul, or just reverted back to it's lackluster bw form, it's nearly unusable at present.
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I think snipe would be pretty cool and useful if it got a substantial buff.
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I really don't know what blizzard is planning to do with the ghost's snipe shot. Im assuming its sniping, scouts like marines, reapers and probes and stuff and maybe observers but even then the obs have 40 hp and 20 shields so yeah I definitely agree it needs to be buffed.
Maybe not buffed enough to snipe templars but at least enough to snipe observers. That would make it easier for ghosts to nuke and to be undetected which will indirectly buff emp.
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On March 16 2010 09:49 duckhunt wrote:
i can validate what orb is saying, i played a tvp vs him and it was 3 base vs 3 base and i was m axed, he was not, i emp'd about 10 of his hts and thought i could handle him but he flanked me with about 10 more hts and totally completely destroyed me LOL =P
That is more of an issue then the feedback vs EMP thing. Just shows that having more storm then EMP is just the way to win.
Now, I would love to see a replay where the Toss is able to feedback the 4-6 ghosts in the terran army before a couple of EMP are set off, because that is a cool showcase of skill and fast reaction time. Orb could you provide us with such a replay ?
Now to come back on the real topic:
Psy-storm rapes bio as much as EMP rapes toss. I find it absurd that a match-up is decided between 2 abilities only... Bringing feedback into the thing doesn't change anything, as well as bringing snipe to par. Whats the point of playing for 15 minutes if the game is decided by a couple of abilities thrown at each other in mere seconds in a point and click fashion ? Go play QuakeLive to show real aiming and fast reaction time skills.
Feedback on HT is borderline OP because its much too versatile for a unit that already has a major use in most match-up with high aoe damage (not even talking about the major buff that is warp gate and +25 starting energy compared to sc1 => Instant AOE defense anywhere on the map, sure yeah !! I don't figure out how people havn't been abusing this already...). Feedback was on Dark Archon, a unit with very seldom use except for some feedback, some maelstrom and some rare mind control. Giving the ability to shut-down any caster or in fact any unit with mana to a staple caster is asking for trouble.
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You could do all that stuff in the original post. Or you could just cloak your ghost 
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Ghost does not need buff vs feedback...
very simple solution to this: Put ghost in Medivac, if medivac getting feedbacked is problem, drain medivac of mana (in base by spamming stim on a few marnies) and carry ghost until near battle, drop ghost into battlefield and use EMP etc... if you don't have the APM for this then don't complain.
same with templar in emp situation, use shuttle (warp prism?) and fly it into battle and after emp, drop templar, storm/feedback etc...
high apm people can pull this off
also degree of skill required to feedback a ghost freshly dropped out of a dropship in the midst of battle (reaction time as well etc)
also, draining medivac probalby isn't a huge issue since u will have multiple (which one is the ghost in?!?!)
please stop complaining about imbaness (i am also platinum level protoss player) emp needs nerf, not buff.
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On March 20 2010 03:03 RexFTW wrote:You could do all that stuff in the original post. Or you could just cloak your ghost
i hear obs detect
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EPT
