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On November 23 2010 08:51 Fenrisulf wrote:
I'm having a real problem using this build against a terran marine opening that could transition into banshees marine or thor push. the delay on the robo makes it so that I cant see his true tech until he is almost ready to push out, at which point I don't have time to react. I usually try to rush out HTs for banshees and immortals for thors but with an FE and the lack of information until first observer its really hard to tell.
what sort of unit composition should I keep until the observer makes it and how do I respond to each build after I see? Doesn't seem like I can stop the thor push unless I make immortals early but that puts me in a ditch if the opponent goes banshees instead....
Against any initial push, you don't want to rush HT. You're almost always better delaying the tech spending for extra defensive units. Defend w/ gateway units and immortals. If you know he's not making marauders, tanks or thors, cut immortal production.
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It works much better with ur advises (I just had some trials ^^)
Beside this, what do you mean saying "you don't need 4th gateway to defend against 3rax ?" (o_o')
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On November 23 2010 09:57 SaJa wrote:
It works much better with ur advises (I just had some trials ^^)
Beside this, what do you mean saying "you don't need 4th gateway to defend against 3rax ?" (o_o')
It's possible to defend with just 3 gates. With your expo, you have twice the chrono, and your probe count isn't great that early because you're cutting probes for early nexus and gates. You can't really support 4 gates w/ constant chrono at that time. 3 gets the job done in my experience.
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I tried something pretty good to counter the 3rax 7min timing push. I make a first sentry right after my second nexus (32/34) which will get 100 energy up once the rush will come, and once I got the warp up, I make another sentry which gives me 3 Force Field to counter this push and it does it pretty well.
What do you think about it ? imo it's so easieeer to counter that push with 3 FF and my zealots/stalker composition that the 3rax push is not a problem anymore for me on step. =)
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This completely fails against a 7 min push. At 7min, you have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers. The terran will push with about 12 marines/4 scvs, or 6 marines/4 mauraders before the expansion kicks in. There is no way to defend this. This may work against gold/silver. The replays you have show noob terrans, that either attack with 2 marauders or wait 10 minutes to attack. I'd like to see some replays that defend against a 7min push.
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At 7 minutes I have 3 stalkers 2 zealots and a sentry with GS, and thats from a replay where I scout fast banshees, so I'm not even going for that many ground units.
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On November 26 2010 06:00 dionocenies wrote:
This completely fails against a 7 min push. At 7min, you have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers. The terran will push with about 12 marines/4 scvs, or 6 marines/4 mauraders before the expansion kicks in. There is no way to defend this. This may work against gold/silver. The replays you have show noob terrans, that either attack with 2 marauders or wait 10 minutes to attack. I'd like to see some replays that defend against a 7min push.
2 zealots 2 stalkers in 7min ?..
You should have 2x more units man .. as I just said, you can get 2 sentries up (3 FF> 1 GS imo) before 7min and 4stalker/3zealots.
In my way, I can now resist against this m&m stim push without my 4th gate on step of war (However I can't defend in close position without at least 2 FF in my stuff, that's why you should make your first sentry right after making your first expansion : around 30/34, 32/34 suply. Once the m&m are not able to hit and back anymore it is so much easier).
I'll give you replay against 2k diamond T 
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On November 26 2010 06:00 dionocenies wrote:
This completely fails against a 7 min push. At 7min, you have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers. The terran will push with about 12 marines/4 scvs, or 6 marines/4 mauraders before the expansion kicks in. There is no way to defend this. This may work against gold/silver. The replays you have show noob terrans, that either attack with 2 marauders or wait 10 minutes to attack. I'd like to see some replays that defend against a 7min push.
Wow, this person came up with an entirely new push that has never been mentioned in this entire 54 page thread that completely breaks the build! Looks like I can never 1gate FE again.
I can't believe people still post like this. 
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On November 26 2010 06:00 dionocenies wrote:
This completely fails against a 7 min push. At 7min, you have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers. The terran will push with about 12 marines/4 scvs, or 6 marines/4 mauraders before the expansion kicks in. There is no way to defend this. This may work against gold/silver. The replays you have show noob terrans, that either attack with 2 marauders or wait 10 minutes to attack. I'd like to see some replays that defend against a 7min push.
lol okay, well let me say, I am 3100 diamond and this is still the only build I use pvt.
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On November 26 2010 10:24 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 06:00 dionocenies wrote:
This completely fails against a 7 min push. At 7min, you have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers. The terran will push with about 12 marines/4 scvs, or 6 marines/4 mauraders before the expansion kicks in. There is no way to defend this. This may work against gold/silver. The replays you have show noob terrans, that either attack with 2 marauders or wait 10 minutes to attack. I'd like to see some replays that defend against a 7min push. lol okay, well let me say, I am 3100 diamond and this is still the only build I use pvt.
Can we put this in the first post or something, seriously. I'm baffled that people still post in this thread saying this build won't work.
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On November 26 2010 10:24 Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 06:00 dionocenies wrote:
This completely fails against a 7 min push. At 7min, you have 2 zealots and 2 stalkers. The terran will push with about 12 marines/4 scvs, or 6 marines/4 mauraders before the expansion kicks in. There is no way to defend this. This may work against gold/silver. The replays you have show noob terrans, that either attack with 2 marauders or wait 10 minutes to attack. I'd like to see some replays that defend against a 7min push. lol okay, well let me say, I am 3100 diamond and this is still the only build I use pvt.
If you don't me asking, do you get a robo for immortals or go 3/4 warpgates vs 3 rax stim pushes?
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You don't have time for immortal when the push is coming. You will have to use 3/4 gates only to defend.
As said kcdc : 4 gates is easier
3 gates is possible using chronoboosts when your spartan are fighting.
@dionoceny : you also saying that the 7 min push is coming before you have ur expand up however, your expo is up around the 6th minute which doesn't make sens. I think you have same problem that I had => you don't make the right build order. ^^
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On November 26 2010 10:24 Minigun wrote:
lol okay, well let me say, I am 3100 diamond and this is still the only build I use pvt.
lol how can you say that , ive seen your stream and you are pretty good vs terran , but when this push were coming , you either suicided and gg'ed , or sac'ed your expo.
this push is very brutal , fast stim mass infantry , u dont have many sentries to block this (and even if you get a few you will need to place some PERFECT forcefields , which are very hard to get vs very fast moving infatry , and terran can kite you zealots to death , then switch to your stalkers.
the timing (7 minute mark) doesnt let you get a lot units by then , because your gates are just barely finished by that time , so it doesnt matter if u are 3 gate 4 gate constanly chrono , u just dont have enough to hold this specially on close posi .
same goes for a 7 minute thor rush , the thor is coming by the time u have not much units built from 1 gate , and other 3 gates are just finished by that time and you might get a 1 set of warp , max , but that is not enough to hold.
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About the thor rush, it is much more complex than you think... you can poke with ur 2 first units.. you can contain and kill scv on their way just before the push.. you can lose b2 and being still ahead ~~
About the 3 rax push, 3 FF is enough, and it is not harder to place 3 force field to block retreat perfectly than microing m&m stimed pefectly.
the timing (7 minute mark) doesnt let you get a lot units by then
4 zealots+4stalkers+2 sentries+ some warp on the way. It's pretty enough to resist if you not noob and if you playing against someone with same lvl as you.
I had a problem before, I made like 12 games on step of war against my best terran friend, and now I can manage it properly (I even prefer see him to push me with 3 rax than FE beause I now feel confident vs fast push).
Just practice, and give replays if you need help, but stop saying this is impossible when it actually is.
If you still think this is impossible to counter it, you can still leave this thread instead of whining like ppl did in the 1st page. =_=
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On November 28 2010 12:32 SaJa wrote:
Just practice, and give replays if you need help, but stop saying this is impossible when it actually is.
If you still think this is impossible to counter it, you can still leave this thread instead of whining like ppl did in the 1st page. =_=
I would like to see your replays if it's possible. At least one 
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The way I've been dealing with 3 rax is to open with a forge after you expand and add a cannon before you add more gateways/robo, the cannon has great DPS, great HP and outranges everything, so it backs up your defending army extremly well before your gates/robo kicks in properly.
But the best part with it is that you can get a very early +1 armor and I usually transition into quick charge and alot of gateways which allows me to put preassure back and quite often just win outright without any type of high tech like colo/HT. When you have momentum and scout properly you can add a third and/or go heavy on whatever tech you prefer.
I've started to do this vs pretty much anything that is related to more than 1 rax, since charge and +1 armor deals so god damn well with ground, with a touch of stalker support and maybe 1-2 sentries for guardian shield.
I'm 2k (play too little..) if anyone cares and usually beat 2,3-2,5k terrans pretty easily, and this opening have given me alot of leeway and puts me ahead with comfort.
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On November 28 2010 19:13 Omega.763 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2010 12:32 SaJa wrote:
Just practice, and give replays if you need help, but stop saying this is impossible when it actually is.
If you still think this is impossible to counter it, you can still leave this thread instead of whining like ppl did in the 1st page. =_= I would like to see your replays if it's possible. At least one
I was counting on that. I'll do as soon as I can
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Here we go :
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-169707.jpg)
Me countering the 3 rax timing push on step of war (the smallest map ever) without any problem.
I just use 3 gates to do so :o
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If I am a total bronze noob, is this a build worth learning from the beginning and really learning to iron out?
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EPT
