• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:46
CEST 07:46
KST 14:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202561RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension5
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Server Blocker Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 633 users

Destiny on where he thinks SC2 is heading. - Page 52

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 105 Next
deafhobbit
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States828 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 22:03:21
October 17 2012 22:03 GMT
#1021
/fiddles
I cheer for underdogs and Flash
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
October 17 2012 22:03 GMT
#1022
On October 18 2012 07:00 DerNebel wrote:
Well, Wings of Liberty did explode the scene, at least in the west.

At least in the west. That sounds a bit hollow doesn't it? The largest Brood War tournaments could fill entire football stadiums, and here we have MLG struggling to make money about the "successor" that was supposed to explode the scene. A ton of A-teamers in BW had their own, dedicated fanclub that turned up live, stress that word, live to cheer for their favorite progamers. If you hung around since the early beta days you may remember the BW coverage always being covered in fangirl screams when huge plays happened. This was the spirit, a football stadium's worth of people watching Brood War live, and at the forefront the most dedicated fans, cheering for their fans with extreme hyperbole. Starcraft 2 does have these things, don't get me wrong here, but the scale is so minute, so tiny that it's simply insignificant.

That Starcraft 2 is less played in PC bangs in Korea than Brood War, that it isn't even in top 10 is way more significant than you might think if you don't know Korean gaming culture. The PC bang, the net café, is very important in Korea, it is the place eSports started. In the wild early years of Brood War, it was people playing in the PC bangs all over the nation that sparked the first tournaments, hosted in PC bangs, that led to the first, terrible, unhealthy gaming houses, which eventually led to the OSLs and the nationwide eSport. I am not sure how many people go play there today, but I would guess that the number is still quite big, and it is in places like these that eSports are born. Not in a lab, concocted with equal parts artificial skill ceiling and spectator appeal, but through people playing a good game and then going on to playing tournaments in it.

RIOT showed us that you can kick your game forward, you can make an eSport out of the really fun game you've made. Everybody has heard of the huge viewerships at League of Legends tournaments, but few remember the baby steps they took when the game was relatively small, like the travesty of the lorebased showmatch, an agony to watch so don't do it. RIOT and Valve have two amazingly fun games, and they both organize amazing tournaments for them, with RIOT taking the reins far more than Valve, but both promoting the game as a really fun game to play and to watch.

Blizzard tried to explicitly make an eSports game. That was a mistake. I am not going to make any concessions here, making Starcraft 2 a "competitive" experience was a mistake. They forgot everything most people really find fun about gaming: community. Community, communication, playing stupid shit with friends, if you want it in english. 1v1, online, versus strangers is just not fun in the long haul for the vast majority of players. LoL kept its players coming back and DOTA has loads of 6+ year veterans plus swathes of new players coming in, while Starcraft 2 is facing lower and lower ladder numbers by the season.

Its just not fun enough, that's my point. Blizzard needs to make the game more fun, they need to be brilliant, to simultaneously cater to the casual and the hardcore. If they keep up the hamfisted approach to game design, map design and balance they have had until now, then I predict a lot of disillusioned posts on the front page about an heir that failed its heritage when the third expansion comes out. And I'm not talking about DOTA2.



What a superb post. I don't think I can add anything to it. Summed it up nicely.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Fake)Plants
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States373 Posts
October 17 2012 22:04 GMT
#1023
On October 18 2012 06:06 Bleak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 04:56 Apolo wrote:
On October 18 2012 04:50 PhoenixVoid wrote:
I have to agree with this article, the SC2 e-sports scene does seem screwed up by Blizzard and their rather stupid actions. Maybe it was due to Activision (sorry if this is a rumor) and their greedy/controlling actions, or maybe Blizzard really wanted to create a competitive game that would appeal to the competitive types. I have experienced hardcore SC2 fans leave for LoL because "It was too difficult" and "LoL is more appealing because of how easy/non-serious it is". SC2 simply does not appeal to any other gamer, the "casual" market because of how difficult it is compared to any other MOBA game. I have never felt as frustrated when I get cheesed or lose a game because of simple mistakes compared to any other game, because SC2 not a forgiving game.

The emphasis on "competitive" is driving SC2 down hard. I literally remember only playing UMS on BW, and maybe playing Melee a few times. UMS allowed for the community to express their creativity and have some fun with the game, while SC2 forces all players to resort to Arcade, which is a mess of half-copied ideas from BW UMS games and some fairly sloppy ones. There is no longer any care for the community as much as in BW, and the lack of any real action by Blizzard is dragging SC2 down. I just hope Blizzard can at least read this article to gain a good idea of what SC2 needs to fix. I love SC2, and I hate to see it end up irrelevant because of dumb business direction which could have been fixed 2-3 years ago.


Exactly. What's the most developed part of the current SC2? Ranked, 1on1 with a stranger, limited to the continent you bought your game on, on a map you can't decide, vs a random race, with the possibility of being demoted anytime without warning, so that you are in constant fear of demotion, where the game is many times decided by factors outside your visible control ("i lost and i don't know why"), where simple mistakes can end the game, and when you lose / win you get insulted for winning / losing, because the poor guy is also stressed out as everyone else, in a constant feeling of loneliness because the social aspect of the game is very badly developed.

Yeah, good luck with that Blizzard. Like many others i stopped playing SC2 for some time. I started out as a 1v1 addict, got bored because it required practice to be +- good and it was too stressfull for the mentioned reasons. Only played team games for a while, then unninstalled the game completely because even those got boring. Now i'm just following the scene and watching some tournaments from time to time. The OP touches points i've been feeling since a bit after the beta, but never really expressed them together.


Exactly why I stopped playing too. The game is just too stressful, in order to get good you need to practice in a specific way and if you don't have access (or time) for that kind of practice, you get frustrated. It also does not reward the player enough to keep playing. I just switched to Dota 2 and I don't miss SC2 at all. It is much more fun and much less stressful than SC2. The last MLG I watched was the one with JD/Flash etc. and it was also the last tournement I watched. The International 2 though was just super exciting.


Agree with everything here and in Destiny's original post. I am truly confused as to how Blizzard can continue to ignore the problems that have been plaguing SC2 since its release, specifically the Battle.net experience. Honestly, if Blizzard was more willing to listen to input SC2 would be much, much better off and far less mired in a bunch of stagnation. Diablo III is an even better example of their current capabilities as a developer.
Q( ' '(Q
Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
October 17 2012 22:04 GMT
#1024
On October 17 2012 22:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Since this is such a long post, it's only normal to disagree with a couple points. Overall I think it is well written and hits on a lot of important points. However, I don't agree with the underlying thought that StarCraft as an esport doesn't have any hope without Blizzard stepping it up. There are more than enough opportunities to grow this thing.

The current prize money level represents that of a very serious sport. We need to be making some strides in better payout structures, and rewarding more spots, but in the grand scheme of things, we are in a decent place. There is enough prize money to keep developing this scene. It's always good to improve payouts, but it's not something that keeps this from being a successful sport.

I also don't agree with the part about casual versus competitive features. If you look at LoL and Dota the casuals aren't necessarily buying more skins than the competitive gamers. Skins itself are not a casual feature, and can be applied successfully in a competitive, as well as a casual game.

Dota uses a top-down approach where they start with competitive play and expect this to trickle down. I think the success of BroodWar in Korea relied on competitive play first, casual play second. There are even the success stories of mods such as Dota1 and Counter-Strike, where accessibility was not the primary concern. The reason these games succeeded is off of competitive play.

Presenting features for casual players in a clear and easy to use manner is very important, however you don't need to go so far as to say your focus needs to be on those. Just take care of casual players properly and find the right balance. In order to be a successful esport, there is no need at all to put casuals first. Asking game developers to put casuals first is a step in the wrong direction, asking them to take care of casuals properly is what we need from them.

It is undeniable that Blizzard has a lot of things they could be doing that would make things better for us. Issues with buying multiple accounts for each server, all the server switching, the poor latencies between the servers, skins, logo integration, name changes. It doesn't matter that I disagree with a couple points Destiny makes, the fact that this post exists is a good thing.


Excellent Nazgul, agreed!
Happiness only real when shared.
EnNaNo
Profile Joined October 2012
United States2 Posts
October 17 2012 22:05 GMT
#1025
Pwnographics, I can see what you are trying to say. But here's the thing... you can't compare SC2 to women's shot put and LoL/DotA 2 to the NBA in terms of viewership. Those are two completely different beasts and furthermore I do not like it when people use physical sports to eSports as they have been around much longer and have developed a much stronger ground.

SC2 viewers will get interest from SC2 FANS.. simply put. Whenever there's a tournament/event on stream you wont see your big SC2 fanboys going and saying "Hey LoL has more viewers currently, I think I'll watch that instead."

Being that this discussion really is all about who's opinion is louder I will end my post with this... You CANNOT predict that HotS will suck just as you cannot predict it any other game will suck based upon the simple fact that this game is not DONE YET. So long as SC2 is backed by the community it will not be dead anytime soon, unless someone makes a better RTS(good luck) you can expect to see Starcraft around for quite a while.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
October 17 2012 22:06 GMT
#1026
On October 18 2012 06:59 Serpico wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 06:57 Archerofaiur wrote:
Just as an example here are DOTA 2 patch notes from today


Added a Hall of Fame section to the community tab, featuring a different group of high skill players each week.
Added a Team Browser section to the community tab. This shows teams that have participated in leagues that are available through the client.
Added a Replays Highlight option when watching games. Watch the best moments from a match with a click of a button.

Really amazing support from valve, especially since the game will be f2p. They aren't messing around here.


Poll: Has Valve advanced E-Sports with DOTA 2?

Yes (47)
 
78%

No (13)
 
22%

60 total votes

Your vote: Has Valve advanced E-Sports with DOTA 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No



http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
October 17 2012 22:08 GMT
#1027
On October 18 2012 06:40 Areon wrote:
Some amazingly valid and powerful points. A little too ranty at times, but this is something that needs to be read by a lot of people. Don't agree with his QQ about competitive games not being fun; competitive games can be absolutely fun, just depends on the player and the game.


The thing is that the "competitive game" is a very vague term. Pretty much every multiplayer-oriented game that's not an MMO is a competitive game (and then some MMOs on top of that as well). The thing is, there needs to be a non-competitive element to the game that's good, fun and addictive.

The game I burned the most time on over the last 2 months was Tribes: Ascend - and very recently, Chivalry. Both games I can play while barely thinking or giving a shit about what's really going on and get a kick out of it. Which is exactly what I want to be able to do when I feel tired and lazy.
Xandaren
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States93 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 22:09:41
October 17 2012 22:08 GMT
#1028
Esports? No. That genre of gaming? Yes.

I am talking about that random poll, just to clarify.
Just chill man.
Jealous
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
10145 Posts
October 17 2012 22:08 GMT
#1029
On October 18 2012 07:00 DerNebel wrote:
Well, Wings of Liberty did explode the scene, at least in the west.

At least in the west. That sounds a bit hollow doesn't it? The largest Brood War tournaments could fill entire football stadiums, and here we have MLG struggling to make money about the "successor" that was supposed to explode the scene. A ton of A-teamers in BW had their own, dedicated fanclub that turned up live, stress that word, live to cheer for their favorite progamers. If you hung around since the early beta days you may remember the BW coverage always being covered in fangirl screams when huge plays happened. This was the spirit, a football stadium's worth of people watching Brood War live, and at the forefront the most dedicated fans, cheering for their fans with extreme hyperbole. Starcraft 2 does have these things, don't get me wrong here, but the scale is so minute, so tiny that it's simply insignificant.

That Starcraft 2 is less played in PC bangs in Korea than Brood War, that it isn't even in top 10 is way more significant than you might think if you don't know Korean gaming culture. The PC bang, the net café, is very important in Korea, it is the place eSports started. In the wild early years of Brood War, it was people playing in the PC bangs all over the nation that sparked the first tournaments, hosted in PC bangs, that led to the first, terrible, unhealthy gaming houses, which eventually led to the OSLs and the nationwide eSport. I am not sure how many people go play there today, but I would guess that the number is still quite big, and it is in places like these that eSports are born. Not in a lab, concocted with equal parts artificial skill ceiling and spectator appeal, but through people playing a good game and then going on to playing tournaments in it.

RIOT showed us that you can kick your game forward, you can make an eSport out of the really fun game you've made. Everybody has heard of the huge viewerships at League of Legends tournaments, but few remember the baby steps they took when the game was relatively small, like the travesty of the lorebased showmatch, an agony to watch so don't do it. RIOT and Valve have two amazingly fun games, and they both organize amazing tournaments for them, with RIOT taking the reins far more than Valve, but both promoting the game as a really fun game to play and to watch.

Blizzard tried to explicitly make an eSports game. That was a mistake. I am not going to make any concessions here, making Starcraft 2 a "competitive" experience was a mistake. They forgot everything most people really find fun about gaming: community. Community, communication, playing stupid shit with friends, if you want it in english. 1v1, online, versus strangers is just not fun in the long haul for the vast majority of players. LoL kept its players coming back and DOTA has loads of 6+ year veterans plus swathes of new players coming in, while Starcraft 2 is facing lower and lower ladder numbers by the season.

Its just not fun enough, that's my point. Blizzard needs to make the game more fun, they need to be brilliant, to simultaneously cater to the casual and the hardcore. If they keep up the hamfisted approach to game design, map design and balance they have had until now, then I predict a lot of disillusioned posts on the front page about an heir that failed its heritage when the third expansion comes out. And I'm not talking about DOTA2.

Best post in this thread. Thank you, and cheers.
"The right to vote is only the oar of the slaveship, I wanna be free." -- бум бум сучка!
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
October 17 2012 22:10 GMT
#1030
The biggest difference between sc2 and scbw is, if you looked closely into the development of all blizzard games, you would notice that the previous developers actually love to play their own games, notably WC1-3, SC1 (and Bliz north's D1-2). Blizzard used to make games because they love to play games so naturally a bunch of people passionate in playing X genre of game go on and make a game that they dreamt of. I'd still recommend SC/BW, WC2/3 and D1-2 to anyone i know if the right conversation came up (and yes my children will play them so i can show them about these real good rts/arpg games).

The sc2 dished alot, i mean, ALOT of amazing features from scbw for unknown reason. I am a zerg and i will never forgive them for replacing the super cool Hydra with Roach in sc2 and it was fine for me if hydra wasn't crippled into a trash unit (you have to forgive my language but i hope my anger is understandable). And then we all know there are alot of in-game design issues of all 3 races in sc2. Similar thing happened to D3 (I know it is technically made by different people but it is from blizzard), the D3 team said openly that they dislike many things in D2 and they will 'improve' the game in D3. What on earth are these people thinking i don't even.

Without scbw, sc2 is nothing. I am not buying HotS. Do you see that i have the zerg icon and my signature? I will never change my race on TL and this signature will stay forever because I still love SC1 as a game to death.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
HypertonicHydroponic
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
437 Posts
October 17 2012 22:13 GMT
#1031
I think there is a lot to what Destiny is saying that is correct. However, I think realistically fixing the problem of monetization is not a simple as Destiny proposes. First of all, I think there is quite a bit of disconnect between the casual SC2 gamer and tournament scene. I'm pretty sure a majority of the casuals who have gone to games like Squadron TD, Nexus Wars, Mafia, etc., do not follow the tournament scene much if at all. I think ladder anxiety not only plays into people not playing the ladder, but in turn not following the scene to a certain degree. Usually when I have brought up either tournaments or even TeamLiquid up in games I play, I would say most people seem vaguely aware or not very interested -- I think people tune out the in game advertisement on the home page.

Anyway, I think there are quite a few things Blizzard could do to make their product more friendly to the casual gamer, to tournaments, to custom games, to a lot of things. Unfortunately, I think that they are going to need a change in vision for the product as a whole, and I'm not sure they are going to get there without some drastic changes to ... something ... maybe staffing.
[P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070
elanobissen
Profile Joined February 2011
Denmark244 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 22:18:48
October 17 2012 22:15 GMT
#1032
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game.
SigmaoctanusIV
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States3313 Posts
October 17 2012 22:21 GMT
#1033
On October 18 2012 07:15 elanobissen wrote:
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game.


Not removing any Terran units, thats not biased at all.
I am Godzilla You are Japan
hitpoint
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1511 Posts
October 17 2012 22:21 GMT
#1034
On October 18 2012 07:15 elanobissen wrote:
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game.


Nothing wrong with the broodlord if infestor is fixed/removed.
It's spelled LOSE not LOOSE.
ishyishy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
October 17 2012 22:24 GMT
#1035
I agree with everything said by Destiny except one thing: (not a direct quote) he said that blizzard doesnt know how to design a casual game.

WoW is the most casual game I have ever played in my life. Yes there are ways to compete, yes there are ways to challenge yourself and get rewarded for it, but it is so easy to just enjoy the game while not doing those things that it doesnt matter. You play the game how you want. (after 8 years, however, the game gets beyond boring so I am no longer playing, but I enjoyed the time I spent on it and I definitely didnt expect to get 8 years out of 1 game).

I played Diablo 3 when it released. It was fun for 2 weeks. Then I put it away and never looked at it again lol. It's a pretty bad game overall, but a casual one nontheless.

What I would really like to see are some facts, and some numbers. Again, I agree with Destiny's opinions, but if sc2 is "dying". then numbers would prove it.

I want to see 3 numbers:
1. Number of players ( or accounts created) on official release.
2. Number of active accounts (accounts that show activity at least once a week) from release until the end of 2011.
3. Number of active accounts from the end of 2011 to present day.

If someone can get this information and put it in a very simple graph, you will see whether or not the game is dying or growing. If its growing, you line graph will show an upward trend in active accounts, if it is dying, a downward trend.
You dont have to go through all of this speculative nonsense and opinionated experiences. Numbers never lie.
--------------

Shifting the mood from facts to opinions:

I, personally, am slowly losing interest in sc2 in general. I'm not going to say the game is bad, or that it *needs* X amount of features to be a real game, or anything of the sort. I enjoy watching MLG and GSL tournaments for sure. I just do not enjoy playing the game anymore. It's that simple.

I'm not afraid of the fucking ladder queue button, I'm not worried about achievements or ranking points or league icons or any of that shit; I dont care. The gameplay does not appeal to me anymore; it is getting boring. I'm not sure exactly why, but maybe the thing about "not working towards or building towards something" that Destiny was saying might have something to do with it.
---------

I have (unfortunately lol) moved on to LoL for now. The game is similar in that micro is very important, and timings, and mechanics, so it isnt like it's a brand new never before seen omg shiney game, and I can jump into it and not be completely lost. I just find it more enjoyable overall.

Also, I dont care what you diehard LoL assholes think, LoL is an EASIER game than sc2, there I said it. It is easier, and less stressful, and features in the game give it at least a little bit of value or meaning. Maybe that is why I (and whoever else made the switch) am enjoying it more.

I am still watching the GSL and all of the other tournaments (except the PPV, i already pay for GSL i cant pay for everything else too), but as for playing the game, I'm pretty much done.
sorrowptoss
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1431 Posts
October 17 2012 22:29 GMT
#1036
I think that people are too busy comparing.

Comparing with LoL, Dota2, and especially, especially, BW.

It's not by rehashing something successful in the past that it will be successful now. It's not by mimicking BW's bnet system or mimicking LoL's promotion and free-to-play-ness and accessibility that SC2 will live.

I think that Blizzard needs to be original. Nothing they do is original anymore. They half-heartedly copied a third of BW in SC2 and then the community is asking Blizzard to mimic other games from other game companies. I'm 100% sure that the results won't mimic along.

Blizzard needs to come up with something completely unseen and new. Make SC2 special. Give people a reason to play SC2 because it's in innovation, not a rehash that stinks like nostalgia. Stop comparing. We need something completely outside of the box.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-17 22:32:28
October 17 2012 22:30 GMT
#1037
Reading this thread you would think no one in this community actually likes SC2. I'd be interested to see the average daily playing time of the all the people who are way overstating how bad and doomed SC2 is. If they play a lot, it'd be an interesting study in the human tendency to complain, because they clearly like the game lol. Unless this thread is just attracting people who don't actually play anymore, in which case I would love for people who still love SC2 to make their voice heard in here.

I play SC2 every day and love it. I watch it every day and love it. I would never want its hardcore and competitive nature replaced by some casual BS. Sure, increasing the accessibility of custom games and chat rooms will help marginally. Ultimately though, the RTS genre does not lend it itself to casual players. And that's how I like it .
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
October 17 2012 22:32 GMT
#1038
On October 18 2012 07:30 Doodsmack wrote:
Reading this thread you would think no one in this community actually likes SC2.


We are all here because we deeply love SC2. Apathy and silence would be the sign of dislike.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
ScoutWBF
Profile Joined April 2005
Germany601 Posts
October 17 2012 22:35 GMT
#1039
On October 18 2012 07:32 Archerofaiur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2012 07:30 Doodsmack wrote:
Reading this thread you would think no one in this community actually likes SC2.


We are all here because we deeply love SC2. Apathy and silence would be the sign of dislike.


Actually, I don't like SC2 at all.I was following the korean SC2 scene to see if the game would improve over time, but it only got more boring as time passed by.
ImperialX
Profile Joined August 2011
Australia4 Posts
October 17 2012 22:41 GMT
#1040
SC2 is a skill-based game more so than LoL or DotA2. Of course it's never going to get as big as those two games. You can practise for many, many weeks and still be in Bronze, whereas in DotA2 you can pretty much be in the Top 10% after playing a few days and remembering the heros. Also, team games. Need I say more?

People need skill to appreciate SC2 for the game that it is - and most people nowadays don't want to put in effort like that. That's why SC2 will never be as big - it's not a game for no0bs.
I can already see the ending!
Prev 1 50 51 52 53 54 105 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft659
Nina 243
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3354
Noble 47
ggaemo 42
League of Legends
JimRising 712
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1289
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor107
Other Games
summit1g6510
shahzam1052
Fuzer 88
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick975
BasetradeTV47
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH260
• practicex 36
• Adnapsc2 11
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota265
League of Legends
• Doublelift4802
• Lourlo1436
Other Games
• Scarra1833
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
4h 14m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
8h 14m
CSO Cup
10h 14m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
12h 14m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 3h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 8h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 12h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL Team Wars
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.