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On October 18 2012 07:41 ImperialX wrote:
SC2 is a skill-based game more so than LoL or DotA2. Of course it's never going to get as big as those two games. You can practise for many, many weeks and still be in Bronze, whereas in DotA2 you can pretty much be in the Top 10% after playing a few days and remembering the heros. Also, team games. Need I say more?
People need skill to appreciate SC2 for the game that it is - and most people nowadays don't want to put in effort like that. That's why SC2 will never be as big - it's not a game for no0bs.
Great example of a horrible post.
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To be fair Diablo 3 is probably even worse than SC2. Blizzard just doesn't know how to design a game anymore.
On October 18 2012 07:15 elanobissen wrote:
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game.
Agreed, from a spectator point of view, anti-micro units and attack move units are not good for e-sports.
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On October 18 2012 07:41 ImperialX wrote:
SC2 is a skill-based game more so than LoL or DotA2. Of course it's never going to get as big as those two games. You can practise for many, many weeks and still be in Bronze, whereas in DotA2 you can pretty much be in the Top 10% after playing a few days and remembering the heros. Also, team games. Need I say more?
People need skill to appreciate SC2 for the game that it is - and most people nowadays don't want to put in effort like that. That's why SC2 will never be as big - it's not a game for no0bs.
Then why was BW more popular than DotA2 and LoL combined? (At least in Korea)
On October 18 2012 07:44 Highways wrote:To be fair Diablo 3 is probably even worse than SC2. Blizzard just doesn't know how to design a game anymore. Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 07:15 elanobissen wrote:
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game. Agreed, from a spectator point of view, anti-micro units and attack move units are not good for e-sports.
What? Remove all of those units? Seriously?
HellBats are Vultures and Firebats combined. What more could you want? Stim is the only thing setting HellBats apart from Firebats, and that could be implemented with some new ability.
On FF, it's pretty iffy.
Infestor would be fine with just a fungal nerf.
BLs are Guardians... I don't hear any complaints about them.
Roach nerf and Hydra buff would solve a lot, but Roaches don't need to be removed.
Swarm Hosts are great.
For Colossi, you got me there.
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Why doesnt Blizzard get this? Are they just ignorant? Dont they read anything of this?
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You forgot an important point. For the casual gamer, games get ruined by hackers over time (look at bw and wc3 nowadays - unplayable). SC2 is quite recent and starts to get infested with those kind of players already. Give it a few more years, sc2 will be just as unplayable as those games. Blizzard has one of the worse anti-hack system/detection of all games.... IMO, Dota2 and LoL will be taking a big part of the sc2 community (including myself unfortunatly).
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On October 18 2012 07:10 BurningSera wrote:
The biggest difference between sc2 and scbw is, if you looked closely into the development of all blizzard games, you would notice that the previous developers actually love to play their own games, notably WC1-3, SC1 (and Bliz north's D1-2). Blizzard used to make games because they love to play games so naturally a bunch of people passionate in playing X genre of game go on and make a game that they dreamt of. I'd still recommend SC/BW, WC2/3 and D1-2 to anyone i know if the right conversation came up (and yes my children will play them so i can show them about these real good rts/arpg games).
The sc2 dished alot, i mean, ALOT of amazing features from scbw for unknown reason. I am a zerg and i will never forgive them for replacing the super cool Hydra with Roach in sc2 and it was fine for me if hydra wasn't crippled into a trash unit (you have to forgive my language but i hope my anger is understandable). And then we all know there are alot of in-game design issues of all 3 races in sc2. Similar thing happened to D3 (I know it is technically made by different people but it is from blizzard), the D3 team said openly that they dislike many things in D2 and they will 'improve' the game in D3. What on earth are these people thinking i don't even.
Without scbw, sc2 is nothing. I am not buying HotS. Do you see that i have the zerg icon and my signature? I will never change my race on TL and this signature will stay forever because I still love SC1 as a game to death.
The clash of Old vs New, had to unfortunately come because of company politics and to much focus on WoW they actually skipped the important gap in computer gaming for Diablo/SC series. And that created problems of various natures.
I blame politics first, it was the reason why Blizzard North was shut down, because they were to individualistic, my ass... WoW vanilla was a great game but later Blizzard put to much effort into ONLY that. They completely disregarded SC and Diablo universes, for so many years then everyone is like "you damn elitist, no you damn noob" hey, its impossible to connect two completely different school of thoughts. Its 10 fucking years in game development, different developers, and set money making priortities (This is our Esports title, this is our RMAH title, this is our Subscription mmo title, WTF happened to neutral titles?).
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when you think about that why sc2 should be a esports game ? do this even qualify for that ? honestly i find the game very bad
and to me the game look not even balanced , hots look terrible and bad too .
they realy should have remake broodwar witch sc2 engine , we would have got a real esports game and a amazing game.
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I actually find SC2 less daunting than LoL. The former doesn't involve someone on my team calling me out on every single mistake I make throughout the entire game or someone just being a complete douche bag.
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I foresee in the future another company coming out with a decent RTS and leaving blizzard's weak attempt at the sequel to the most amazing game in the world in the dust. There has yet to be an rts that can stand in the same ring as sc:bw, who's to say blizzard has the be the one to do it perhaps another more intelligent company can make this happen t.t
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On October 18 2012 07:47 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Why doesnt Blizzard get this? Are they just ignorant? Dont they read anything of this?
Do you know how long to took blizzard just to increase overlord speed just a bit?
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On October 18 2012 07:57 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 07:47 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Why doesnt Blizzard get this? Are they just ignorant? Dont they read anything of this? Do you know how long to took blizzard just to increase overlord speed just a bit?
I still rage about this change. Needs to be reverted along with the Queen buff.
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On October 18 2012 07:15 elanobissen wrote:
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game.
So what you are saying is "please make it BW again"
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On October 18 2012 07:47 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Why doesnt Blizzard get this? Are they just ignorant? Dont they read anything of this?
They will get it if for example HOTS sells less than 30% of what WOL sold. They dont care as long as you buy their game.
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Destiny has alot of valid points.
I think blizzard should give sc2 a total REBOOT.
Make it more like BW with sc2 mixed in for crying out loud.
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On October 18 2012 07:54 GungraveHero2 wrote:
when you think about that why sc2 should be a esports game ? do this even qualify for that ? honestly i find the game very bad
and to me the game look not even balanced , hots look terrible and bad too .
they realy should have remake broodwar witch sc2 engine , we would have got a real esports game and a amazing game.
Some people say that Blizz shouldn't have put in any BW units. They can't please you and them at the same time, so they took the middle ground.
In HotS, they're listening to the community constantly, and they've implemented many ideas from the community.
Remember SC1? Remember how terrible and imbalanced it was at release? It got better. Then BW came out and made SC1 so much more better. That's the way I'm looking at HotS. It's a work in progress, and Blizz is reworking units constantly. HotS will be a much better game at the rate things are going. Hopefully a BNet 2.0 rework will happen too.
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On October 18 2012 07:41 ImperialX wrote:
SC2 is a skill-based game more so than LoL or DotA2. Of course it's never going to get as big as those two games. You can practise for many, many weeks and still be in Bronze, whereas in DotA2 you can pretty much be in the Top 10% after playing a few days and remembering the heros. Also, team games. Need I say more?
People need skill to appreciate SC2 for the game that it is - and most people nowadays don't want to put in effort like that. That's why SC2 will never be as big - it's not a game for no0bs.
Um...I had a female friend that never played RTS before, and after me + her playing 2v2 for a couple days together. She did placements and got to Gold without ever training.
Me + her also play DotA 2 now, she's played for around 3-4 hours a day for the past 4-5 months. She still hasn't been able to hit a game of high matchmaking unless I queue with her. She still plays normal, which I think is like the bottom 70% or something?
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On October 18 2012 07:59 Antylamon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 07:54 GungraveHero2 wrote:
when you think about that why sc2 should be a esports game ? do this even qualify for that ? honestly i find the game very bad
and to me the game look not even balanced , hots look terrible and bad too .
they realy should have remake broodwar witch sc2 engine , we would have got a real esports game and a amazing game.
Some people say that Blizz shouldn't have put in any BW units. They can't please you and them at the same time, so they took the middle ground. In HotS, they're listening to the community constantly, and they've implemented many ideas from the community. Remember SC1? Remember how terrible and imbalanced it was at release? It got better. Then BW came out and made SC1 so much more better. That's the way I'm looking at HotS. It's a work in progress, and Blizz is reworking units constantly. HotS will be a much better game at the rate things are going. Hopefully a BNet 2.0 rework will happen too.
Um... It got better because people figured stuff out. I think there were only ever 2 balance patches for SC:BW and they were tiny. Like one of them was just a bunker build time.
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On October 18 2012 07:58 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 07:15 elanobissen wrote:
Just remove collosus, forcefields, infestor, BL, Roaches(buff hydras ffs) and swarmhost, and we are good to go. Might aswell bring back the real firebat while we are at it. That would make for an actually nice game. So what you are saying is "please make it BW again"
Yes please. That would be way better than this trainwreck. Better for players, better for esports. Korea would love it instead or completely disregarding it like with sc2. I'll never understand why people say what you did, and think it's sarcastic and witty or something. Being more like BW is only a good thing.
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On October 18 2012 08:01 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 07:59 Antylamon wrote:On October 18 2012 07:54 GungraveHero2 wrote:
when you think about that why sc2 should be a esports game ? do this even qualify for that ? honestly i find the game very bad
and to me the game look not even balanced , hots look terrible and bad too .
they realy should have remake broodwar witch sc2 engine , we would have got a real esports game and a amazing game.
Some people say that Blizz shouldn't have put in any BW units. They can't please you and them at the same time, so they took the middle ground. In HotS, they're listening to the community constantly, and they've implemented many ideas from the community. Remember SC1? Remember how terrible and imbalanced it was at release? It got better. Then BW came out and made SC1 so much more better. That's the way I'm looking at HotS. It's a work in progress, and Blizz is reworking units constantly. HotS will be a much better game at the rate things are going. Hopefully a BNet 2.0 rework will happen too. Um... It got better because people figured stuff out. I think there were only ever 2 balance patches for SC:BW and they were tiny. Like one of them was just a bunker build time.
There were more than 2 balance patches -_-;; Not much more but still.
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SCII isnt fun to watch. I will expand on this but it will probably turn out to be an incoherent emotionally fueld ramble that will lead to a ban.
I just wish that someoen would just force BW mechanics on SCII. I want to see if we would still see that fucking giant army move across the screen in 15 seconds and enter a guys base and destory his shit. Do you know what % of BW game reached 200/200 I would say less then 20%. It would happen in TVT because of how fucking hard it is to kill the other person. Yes Flash would also do his insane 200/200 mech push in TVP. But you know how fucking magical that shit is in BW, its an art to see someoen control an entire army in BW and the best part was that you knew that nobody else could do it like him. In SCII man you move across the map in 15 sec on top of that u like instantly reinforce so obviously its 1 giant battle and GG. In BW even if you won a battle. You could ahve 4 control groups of MNM infront of the zergs natural and you couldnt touch them because of 2 lurkers and a defiler. In BW to reinforce took fuckign time adn by the time u did and then advanced to the guys base he would be able to defend most of the time. In BW managing bases and territory was important, actual fucking strategy planning on securing crucial locations on the map. Like people dont seem to know this but BW was like constant fighting and almost never two maxed armies. It was just hard to control so youd have shit happening all over the map. ZvP in BW was fuckign sexy constant engagements, trading armies, reinforcing. In BW you can fucking making zerglings vs toss in the late game and win. Or hydras. Or ultras. No units was off limits. In SCII ur forced to make the fucking gay units and in mass them. Has anyone ever massed guardians unless it was BGH?? I honestly can write pages and pages of shit I hate about SCII and I have watched SCII from the begining. At first because it was obviously new and I hoped it to be like BW. Also you had many community figures switch like Artosis, Day9 etc. LIke you see kids complain about commentary in SCII they cant enjoy it because of bad commentary. Isnt that the ultimate sign that hey maybe this shit isnt that fun to watch. BW was fun to watch and we had no english casters. I actually prefer to watch BW with kroean commentary. Cause you dont need to fucking have people make it exciting what you are seeing wiht your eyes is just that damn beautiful. There is fucking nothing in SCII that does that to me. No Flashes macro does not impress me. There is no muta micro that amazes me. There are no godly storms (lol). There is no insane bio control. I say all that because everything is easy to fucking copy. Yes flashes macro is still good but its so much easier to duplicate, he is selecting all the raxes fuckign holding down a key. I can duplicate in BW to if I use oblivion but then I dont feel good about myself and its not impressive to anyone. See what I ment by rambing. To get back to why I do watch SCII. After the novelty of all the TL members switching left me, I watchedc casue there were all these new kids on TL talking about foreigners beating koreans. (im white) So I would just get pleasure out of seeing their heroes get raped, and reading their disapointing comments. i dont know if that makes me a dick or a bad person but thats just how I felt. Now I just watch cause of the Gom/Kespa rivlary and cause of the acutaly Kespa guys that I love. Cause all these guys tell me that BW B-teamers are better then BW A-teamers at SCII. So I just want to get to that point where they are all proven wrong. After that I will probably only stick around if Flash is raping the scene like in BW. Im passionate about starcraft and TL, but I honestly wish SCII had never come out, yes it allowed some people in our community to make a good living and im happy for them but it did nothing for me but ruin one of the joys of my life.
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EPT
