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On March 19 2009 13:06 Sadist wrote:
I know you arent fucking bitching.
Wraiths are made of fucking paper, stop crying. YOu arent playing anyone with good enough control to be able to abuse them enough to where they are a problem (you cry about wraiths...but what about mutalisks rofl)
How about you sacrifice an overlord, thats what everyone did before when terran teched, you know before zerg began abusing the fact that they knew terrans build without even scouting? ;D 2 Hydras at your ramp completely stops vul harass too, so stop bitching.
If you make a mistake early game as terran you are dead. Its that simple. Scourge and Muta rape marine med drops anyway, so I dont get what the problem is. Use lords placed in a big ass ring around the map like everyone did before on LT.
Stop bitching about zvt and go build some ultras or hold lurker.
It doesn't matter what their made of when their fucking invisible and in a group they one hit my only source of mobile detection. And sac my ol? By the time I up ol speed its already past mid game and early game the terran has to be brain dead to miss my ol creeping into his base.
And I would like to block with hydras but when I 3hatch your group of speed vults come out 1st. You want me to completely shut down your drops with scourge, what do you think I am some kind of omni-present g-d that is always vigilant? Its not like I know its coming like you do when a zerg goes mutas, when a ds appears on the minimap you have to hope to g-d one of the patrolling scourge are near and it has to get there in like 3secs or the group is unloaded and I have to pull my drones, cancel my up at whatever tech you choose to take down and bring back lurks because my basic unit (zerglings) has out number you ball like 5 to 1 to do any permanent damage.
If terran makes a mistake early game then your behind like everyone else, the difference is terran has 20minutes before I get defliers to sit on there 2bases and crawl back into the game because before that they are literally unbreakable. And just to give my post circular unity, you think wraiths are weak? Every time I miss step with my mutas 4 of them just poof out of existence and your free to go a-move my 3rd.
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How bad you play is not relevant to game balance.
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On March 19 2009 13:10 IdrA wrote:
zerg players help more because they subconciously realize they are pathetic little girls for playing a race with a unit with infinite mana that can make you invincible and make all of your opponents units die in one hit. as such they crave reassurement that they are not utter failures at life, and so try to justify their existence by helping others.
terrans are manly men and have no such weak constitution.
If it weren't for zerg in the first sentence, you could switch that to terran and we'd all be thinking Sci Vessels.
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On March 19 2009 13:22 Spyfire242 wrote:
If a 4 pool fails you deserve to lose, you knew that as soon as you decided to 4 pool.
Edit: I would not compare an 8rax to a 4pool..
Why do I deserve to lose if it fails? Doing 4 pool is not instant loss. There is a possibility that you might get an opponent. Its the same as 8 rax proxy, you do it because you know there is a chance that it might work. Its not "deserve" to lose, its "instant" lose if 4 pool fails.
Yes, you would not compare an 8proxy rax with 4 pool because that comparison supports the theory that its true that Z is less forgiving in ZvT and you play Terran.
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is awesome32280 Posts
On March 19 2009 06:47 Chill wrote:
I agree with your analysis. I've always thought that the hardest part of learning each race is:
Terran - raw mechanics
Zerg - Larve management and army composition
Protoss - intuition
I think Protoss nowadays have a BIG dose of army composition. Intuition was more like a PvZ thing pre-bisubuild...
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On March 19 2009 13:39 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 13:22 Spyfire242 wrote:
If a 4 pool fails you deserve to lose, you knew that as soon as you decided to 4 pool.
Edit: I would not compare an 8rax to a 4pool.. Why do I deserve to lose if it fails? Doing 4 pool is not instant loss. There is a possibility that you might get an opponent. Its the same as 8 rax proxy, you do it because you know there is a chance that it might work. Its not "deserve" to lose, its "instant" lose if 4 pool fails. Yes, you would not compare an 8proxy rax with 4 pool because that comparison supports the theory that its true that Z is less forgiving in ZvT and you play Terran.
You most certainly deserve to lose if you 4 pool and fail, didn't say you would though. ;D
Edit: btw I was not supporting the argument that T is less forgiving than Z early game, just that a 4 pool is much more do or die than an proxy 8 rax, also I played zerg for a very long time before just reccently switching to terran.
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On March 19 2009 13:37 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 13:10 IdrA wrote:
zerg players help more because they subconciously realize they are pathetic little girls for playing a race with a unit with infinite mana that can make you invincible and make all of your opponents units die in one hit. as such they crave reassurement that they are not utter failures at life, and so try to justify their existence by helping others.
terrans are manly men and have no such weak constitution. If it weren't for zerg in the first sentence, you could switch that to terran and we'd all be thinking Sci Vessels.
No actuly it was very clear he meant defilers...
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United States10774 Posts
what the hell is going on here
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Some guy asking for help, which of course turns into a race war! (Terran ftw)
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On March 19 2009 13:37 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2009 13:10 IdrA wrote:
zerg players help more because they subconciously realize they are pathetic little girls for playing a race with a unit with infinite mana that can make you invincible and make all of your opponents units die in one hit. as such they crave reassurement that they are not utter failures at life, and so try to justify their existence by helping others.
terrans are manly men and have no such weak constitution. If it weren't for zerg in the first sentence, you could switch that to terran and we'd all be thinking Sci Vessels.
a sci vessel is like a defilers retarded little sister
no infinite mana
kills one unit instead of killing as many as you want
might take away a unit's mana if you guess which way the unit is gonna move and judge relative speeds correctly
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Imbalance aside, I don't think zerg players are generally more helpful than players of other races, I just think its easier to provide helpful input about Zerg. I'm sure the average toss/terran player is equally likely to help you out, it just takes more time and effort. As an ex. on tl you see alot of thread offering zerg advice which are simple and easy to learn from. As terran you have just as bountiful a learning tool in the Fpvods, it simply requires more effort to take something away from them.
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And makes one unit semi invincible.
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threads like this should be made more often
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On March 19 2009 14:05 Spyfire242 wrote:
And makes one unit semi invincible.
for about 2 seconds
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It lasts 30 seconds or until it absorbs 250 damage, so says starcraft wiki.
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The running a d matrixed marine past a group of lurkers trick(& rest of marines kill the lurkers) is pretty uber too when it works. Feel like I don't see it too much though.
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I also think that Defilers > Science Vessels
the only difference is that when Vessels grow in large numbers, Vessels > Defilers
In other words, defilers are alot more cost efficient, which is amplifed by consume
Just wondering if Idra knows if any players in the CJ house occasionally bitches about race advantages / disadvantages, imbalancies when the camera is not there
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Defilers against terran are by far the most powerfull spell caster in the game. Dear god I don't think I've played a terran I'm actually 'better' then in weeks yet I still win a decent amount. Zerg post defiler and zerg pre-defiler are completely different.
I don't even think 90% of the non-korean zergs get to face Rets lategame tvz .... I know I never live that long.
I think that anyone claiming wraiths imba is a retard, I would give my left nutt to face more wraith builds. Hydra/lurker followup after muta/speedlord is nearly unbeatable.
N.DieJoke, he meant be inteligent and sac a lord into terrans base when you know they are 1 base and can be sure they aren't pumping marines from there wall (or low marine count)
Zerg is also interesting to talk about, terran and protoss have alot more direct 'correct' answers but nobody can actually say that 4 hat hydra -> 5 hat muta/lurker or 5 hat scourge/hydra is better, it is all preferance and style.
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I agree that there are no guides to terran because terran is pretty simple for standard play. Making up b/os, sure, counters, sure. But it is about mastering the extreme multitask/necessary things at different levels to be a good Terran. I mean, any number of 15 decent foreign Terrans could randomly start making FPVods and going "well if he double expoes tvp you just timing push with 2 addons *chuckle*", but in reality you can get any of that from any replay of a terran over C-.
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United States20666 Posts
Infinite amounts of defilers can never kill one vessel.
One vessel can kill infinite amounts of defilers.
Ergo, Terran is infinitely stronger than Zerg and it is only through miraculous power of will that the swarm wins at all.
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EPT
