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slOosh
3291 Posts
I've already stated my case. You said you have problems with it but have provided 0 reasoning, 0 evidence and 0 thought process on why. And then you expect me to extract all relevant information out from you, after stating that you wanted to talk with me. You're full of it and I'm gonna talk it over with Palmar. Now in the meantime why don't you actually do what you say you would do and talk about why you disagree about phagga. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Also, who do you want to lynch tmr Prp? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote: + Show Spoiler + The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote: I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his "really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler + Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler + And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Doesn't do so. Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite. I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: who's the second guy to have flipped town? There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), .... that case was so bad. Because someone is wrong doesnt make them scum. Phagga, lol. It's the fact that he chose easy targets, which he would barely have to justify, and which seem now to turn out to be town. Also his choice of snarfs was not explained at all. it's the combination of these things that bother me. My son keeps crying in the middle of the night and my wife and I don't know why. Jays filter has to wait till tomorrow. Should be online again in about 20 hours. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On February 10 2013 08:27 slOosh wrote: Oh yea, prplhz say something: Updated thoughts on phagga, VE and Snarfs please. I don't know about phagga. I see some of your points, others I don't but he's not my biggest concern right now. I reskimmed his filter though and saw that while he was advocating a lurker lynch early on, he opposed a Palmar lynch almost as the first one (I think yamato77 was earlier out with it but still). That's rather hypocritical and I don't like it. Good thing is that he found that old Palmar game, Death Note Mafia, where Palmar also flaked completely out as town and was lynched for being inactive as well. phagga wasn't in that game though so apparently he actually sat down and read Palmar's old games to find that, bonus points for effort. He's not my biggest concern right now but I didn't read his old games or anything. I'm still leaning scum on VisceraEyes and I don't really know about Snarfs either. On February 10 2013 09:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Prp, how hard is it to understand why Palmar didnt post his RNG lynch idea before the nomination? Also, who do you want to lynch tmr Prp? How do you expect me to answer that first question? I already stated why it's a useless idea to suggest random lynch after the nomination (because it's impossible to implement, case in point: right now, no one is pushing for it at all and it's been perfectly possible to implement it since Palmar suggested it) and that the most we could get out of it was to threaten scum with it (and make them nominate townies) and then just go about like we always do (bickering) when it's time to decide who to lynch. Apparently you don't agree (or didn't read) and you haven't explained your point of view so I don't know why you think you can take the intellectual high ground in an antagonizing way like that. If you think the plan is good then why are you not pushing for us to implement it? I'm leaning Palmar because I don't think he'll be able to conjure up any interest in the game now that we're several days in and he has hardly even read it and I don't want him to hang out and be an annoyance for the rest of the game. I don't know what he'll flip and I'm not interested, we'll find out soon enough. At least the other two guys appear still to be interested in this game. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
You are the only person I noticed that has made ZERO posts since the nominations? You are the only person I noticed that has made ZERO posts since Day2 dawn phase? Please bring us up to speed with your top scum reads based on the Day1 lynch proceedings | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
*Palmar unveils RNG lynch plan* On February 10 2013 02:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Yes Palmar, what's the benefit of keeping information from scum until after they've acted? On February 10 2013 02:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Because he didnt know the nominations? Maybe? On February 09 2013 18:54 Mocsta wrote: This list should not contain many town (if any at all). I mean, isnt this the reason town wants to gamble on him? So yes we need Palmar to "flesh out" reads/tells on CC or snarfs or prplhz Palmar shared his RNG lynch "super plan"... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690¤tpage=47#926 but what is your opinion on the below: In the same big wall of text failed to address any of those previously listed reads: citing: he is not up to date with the thread. Considering he responded to comments in Day 1 enough to recognise JX may not be scum; I find it difficult to apprehend why he can not share his reasonings for listing those people on Day 1 as scummy due to their Day 1 actions. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Given the fact that people will always think I might be scum, me being lynched is actually not a terrible outcome. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
So you are motivated enough to actively lurk and respond when mentioned. But not motivated enough to provide your own highly regarded thoughts and reads? If as a townie u keep saying "tis OK. Lynch me" why bother to respond in the first place? Fact: I can't confirm/deny if your motivations are low. What I do know is that this setup allows for a pro town townie to NEVER be lynched or killed. I still don't get why highly regarded players (such as yourself and others) have not stepped up. This nomination mechanic is better than bodyguards. Hence i find it is peculiar it is not being taken advantage of... | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
If you give your updated reads and tell who you think is scum that would be awesome. Also I believe that your town casue of your posting and sincerity. But if you don't want to actually play then replace out or something. Or we can just lynch you if you have no interest in playing. I think your a very strong townie but you said it your self to play the game of mafia well you need to invest time into it. If you dont wanna do that then i think it might be better to keep Mocsta or SlOosh that have showed that they actually want to play this game. Palmar I will change my vote for you but if you change your mind and decide to play then I will do my best to change the direction of the lynch. The balls in your court. ##Unvote ##Vote Palmar | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 10 2013 12:39 jaybrundage wrote: I would also like everyones thoughts on lynching VE tmw Are you preferring VE over phagga, (i.e is VE your best scum read) or just raising interest in general? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 10 2013 00:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Mocsta + Show Spoiler [CC finding] + From the start of the thread, the interaction between Oats/him made me lean more townie on Oats than him. Just searching through his filter I was like holy crap that many pages... He hasn't been on my scumdar at all lately. Recently, he asked me to go through his discussion with Jay. One thing I found weird: On February 08 2013 13:29 Mocsta wrote: I have had a re-read of Vers guide, and starting to look for specific things in play. Jay, you are pinging the shit out of my scum-dar. -snip- On February 08 2013 14:52 Mocsta wrote: Jay, So if you dont see reasons for scum; how do you rate your town play this game as: pro-town, bad townie, or in the middle?? I still think we had different motives to consolidate. And I am still concerned you made a comment to consolidate and then fucked off. As I have said repeatedly, where is your commitment to developing your read via pressure/analysis/alternative means? Your play reads as if you dont care. All my questions regarding commitment you have dodged; why is that? Jay Do you have a top scum read? & why Who is your top town read? & why If you can answer these simple questions, that would go a way towards showing me you actually care. On February 08 2013 23:02 Mocsta wrote: CC can you give thoughts on the convo between me/jay do you see good townie, bad townie, or other? Am I the only one that finds this weird? Calls him scum then keeps asking if he's a good town or bad town... Maybe he knows Jay is town? Who really cares what Jay thinks of his town play anyway, it doesn't help us find scum. Perhaps, but a 9 page filter already... Mocsta (generally) seems rather pro-town at this stage. With a 9 page filter he's certainly not being apprehensive, but scum mocsta isn't afraid to do that. I'm a bit curious of him at this stage, rather leaning townie. Mr.CC not sure if you wanted me to answer this, or just musings; but will treat it as a question. I noticed peculiarities in Jay play. I called him out on it. I didn't want to jump to conclusions on Jay due to the JX lynch; i.e. the whole "bad townie" / "too scum to be scum" type play style. If I ask people to look for scum tells in his play; I think it gives them (town AND scum) permission to be Confirmation Biased in the filter read. If you ask for bad townie, at least people are trying to create mental arguments for why it is town or scum play. I think this leads to a better read in the end. + Show Spoiler [CC. phagga read] + Phagga He's really friggen paranoid. Take a look-see On February 06 2013 18:55 phagga wrote: I never wanted to imply those things. I see Oats behaviour as disruptive, and I see how he misinterpreted your posts. It is also fine that you call him out on this, it's just the way you did it on a few occasions that got my attention. First, I never ever wanted to suggest we RNG the votes! That would kill of discussion and is absolutely unnecessary. I just wanted to say that statistically, random lynches on D1 would be more successful than what town normally is doing, hence lynching lurkers (who can be a liability for town later on) D1 is a viable option. Nevertheless, our goal has to be to find scum and lynch them, starting D1. How the D1 lynch should go down IMO: - If we have a clear scum suspect, let's lynch him - If not, but there is a lurker who we can not get any alignement of, lynch him. Finally, only because the setup SHOULD mitigate lurking does not mean there will be no lurkers. I mentioned this earlier and it still bugs me. "Holy crap I didn't mean to come off scummy I never ever meant to suggest we RNG votes thats so anti-town I'm not anti-town guys seriously". Phagga comes off as suuuuuper paranoid, like he's got something to cover up. In addition, the bottom bolded part is more obvious than Mr. Obvious McObvious. Nice contribution to the thread! He also comes off as paranoid here: On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote: Dude I wrote i am on the train, how about you read my posts? Yes, set on jx. My point was more about scum abusing palmars meta, his behaviour so far is just not alignement-indicative, and he is probably the only one that I would let get away with it. Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him I ask him if he'd like to lynch Snarfs with me, and completely is like "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about" Next is his sheepy reasons for voting JX On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote: My vote goes to JieXian for coming into the thread and voting Mocsta for a bad reason, then completely disappearing again. ##Vote JieXian Regarding Palmar: he is trolling hard, I dont know if all you got this: Nevertheless, he is trolling D1 as either town or scum, and I know how good a player he can be, so I hesitate to lynch him for now. prplhz dissappearance is worrying, might be timezone related. His filter is devoid of analysis. I hope to see some more from him in the next few hours. I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. He literally gives a sentence to support it, and it's been said before. By myself and by some others. The rest of the thread he doesn't even question JX much, just keeps his vote content there while he talks about prphlz and pressures VE. He has this huge post about VE and his voting with red text and all, but never votes him... he's confident in the JX lynch somehow. It's confusing: is he avoiding talking of JX in order to distance himself from a green flip? I see no scumhunting from him in regards to JX the entirety of day. Such little interaction with him. It's like he was more concerned about a next lynch so he can set up his scumread on VE after JX dies. Also wtf is all this crap: On February 07 2013 18:56 phagga wrote: sniped by JX, but doesn't really change anything for my vote for now. On February 07 2013 22:56 phagga wrote: oh wow, I got sniped big time. Reading up. On February 08 2013 06:40 phagga wrote: Bah, sniped again. Still, it's not like this is a completely uncontested lynch. Also, where the hell is sloosh? Keeps 'getting sniped' lol. Not alignment indicative but it made me laugh. The fact that he votes but never really talks to JX should be indicative enough that he didn't care about the lynch. Leaning hard scumster on this dude. He's paranoid as hell, shitty reasons / contributions to lynching JX, and posting obvious things early game that do nothing to help town. When I said to sl00sh that I had a scum read on phagga due to JX interactions, this was PRECISELY what I was talking about. This read gives me a much townier read on you; if you were bussing phagga, I dont think scum would go into this much detail. Fact: If I survive this nomination lynch, my vote is going instantly onto phagga. | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
On February 10 2013 12:48 Mocsta wrote: Are you preferring VE over phagga, (i.e is VE your best scum read) or just raising interest in general? I have a pool of players that I would be interested in lynching that are on mah list. Currently both are completely lynchable for me. (Its like lunchables but more bloody and delicious!) I usually have decent scum reads but getting the town to follow me can be hard. So I occasionally just sheep on a town read I have and try to follow thru with a lynch that I agree with. I used to do this alot with Palmar but he hasn't been very active this game : ( But Mocsta you didn't really give your opinions on the VE lynch are you just going after phagga or does VE appeal to you as well? | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. Only JX is confirmed. Slip of the "scum-gue" | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 10 2013 14:08 jaybrundage wrote: But Mocsta you didn't really give your opinions on the VE lynch are you just going after phagga or does VE appeal to you as well? VE is of appeal to me. But he is experienced and according to others slippery. A mislynch Day3 + 3 townies for nomination, would make the game 5-4 heading into Day5. I think it is essential we hit scum Day 3; and i think phagga has enough evidence in his filter to build a substantial non-return case out of (in fact, most of the case work has been done by sl0osh/Mr.CC). TL;DR We need to clear a scum Day 3. hit the guy with the highest chance to be scum (phagga), not the guy with the highest potential to fuck town up (VE). Im leading Day3 with a phagga vote. (if not voted) | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 10 2013 14:33 Mocsta wrote: Only JX is confirmed. Slip of the "scum-gue" Sorry. didnt see this CC. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: who's the second guy to have flipped town? that case was so bad. Because someone is wrong doesnt make them scum. Phagga, lol. Wont take credit for it. fuckn sniped again. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 10 2013 09:40 phagga wrote: Since Sloosh specifically asked for it: + Show Spoiler + On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote: + Show Spoiler + The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote: I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his "really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler + Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler + And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Doesn't do so. Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite. I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something" (2) On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote: In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it. MAFIA Palmar JX Snarfs On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: who's the second guy to have flipped town? On February 10 2013 09:47 phagga wrote: There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say: Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), .... phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete. [You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"] In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment. Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now" Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
Jesus. | ||
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