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yamato77
11589 Posts
On February 10 2013 05:49 phagga wrote: What's wrong with that post, can you explain please? He's not reading the thread, and he's admitting to being useless. If he's town we aren't losing anything. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
VE... you said i was on your to do list earlier, what happened to that? Glad to hear your sentiment on Snarfs. Djo plz get in with your reads... i wrote you off as being stupid djo this game but now you're irritating me. All my other games you were so post happy. Palmar seems to be on my train of thought with some scumreads which i like... idk how hes coming to the same conclusions, if he shows his work ill prolly be voting sloosh over him. If he's not going to justify his reads well, then he's pretty useless to us if hes town. I await his next megapost. peace guys, stay warm. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
I think you share my sentiment regarding how to handle the lynch today - we seem to be speaking the same language. I have to ask though - slOosh has already gone to some pretty great lengths to explain his thought process today, while conversely Palmar has done almost no analysis to speak of and has instead only done as he's promised he would, reveal his D2 Plan of Excellence. Are you literally saying that your metric on this lynch is whether the nominee agrees with your scumreads? And if so, does that not open scum up to manipulate you on future nomination days? | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
On February 09 2013 17:39 slOosh wrote: Missed his last post, but don't think it's worth addressing. Just note that he didn't bother bring up most of those things during the actual day, and his final conclusion is "there is probably 1 scum in this group of three". Lots of questions but no real conclusions. Going to sleep because it's 2:38am and I have to be up at 8am and seriously why am I doing this to myself .... Next post will be around ... 1 or 2pm since that is when I'm free. If you have questions for me, consolidate them in a nice post so I can address each one clearly when I get back. I did not bring those things up because they only occured to me after I reread the thread/Filters in the 24 hour dawn phase. And my scum reads are djo, jay, yamato (which I actually forgot in this post after the line because I was in a hurry and didn't check my notes) and one of prplhz / Ve. My read on yamato is older and I will go through his filter now, also I will got through jays filter as he is currently more of a gut read (as written this morning). | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Along with my (foolhearty) belief that he'd come in here and be of use at some point if town, and I wasn't interested in twisting everyone's arm into a Palmar lynch...especially when there are equally bad lurkers in the game who look even worse (JX). At that point I wasn't super convinced he was scum...it wasn't until he later on in the day when I was really conviced. You can't miss it in my post history. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 10 2013 06:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: sry phone posting.... both candidates agree with me. sloosh made a case on phagga. Itsno if he agrees, its if he can back it up well. This lynch for me is predicated on who is going to make the most sense. sloosh and palmar seem to have a similar reads as i do. If palmar isnt going to justify substantially, i dont want him around. sloosh has proven moreso that hes A). town and B) cares and will analyze posts and behavior. currently hes more beneficial to towb. depends on palmars next promised post. Yeah okay, I missed that part about phagga. Then yeah, we're both in agreement. I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today. | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
On February 10 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah okay, I missed that part about phagga. Then yeah, we're both in agreement. I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today. Meh Focusing on the Nominees isn't the best plan. As they are likely all town. It is all a matter of preference in who you think will be the most likely to be least useful to town. We should keep writing case's and showing who we think is scum. I am going to check out prplhz again he kinda skimmed away on meta reads while not really doing anything of use to town. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote: It's like you guys don't even read. The worst outcome of today is time wasted by focusing on the nomination candidates. Let me and Palmar take front wheel and scumhunt into the non-nomination pool, of which we would all agree are at least 3 scum. If we are both town, then our interaction should produce a strong scum lynch list. If one of us isn't, then our interaction should reveal whom to lynch today. Again: D1 information is critical. We can't let scum skate by today pretending to scumhunt by choosing the least towniest of three people, because it is oh so easy for scum to fabricate town reads (no cognitive dissonance and awkwardness of interacting with a teammate naturally). If I sound like I'm repeating myself, it's because some players aren't getting it, and it's letting scum hide. [phagga case edited out] Palmar I want you to comment your thoughts on VE. Also, a fleshed out read on one of Cheesecake, snarfs or prplhz. On February 10 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah okay, I missed that part about phagga. Then yeah, we're both in agreement. I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today. Hey Palmar, I think we need to seriously discuss VE today, because I'm seeing some clear mafia agenda here, and little blips elsewhere. On February 10 2013 02:19 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm going to do a full reread now and look forward to chatting with the nominees about tomorrow's lynch. On February 10 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not sure I agree where phagga is concerned, but we'll deal with that tomorrow. Today I'd like more input from the lynch candidates and everyone's thoughts on who they want to lynch today. Says he wants to chat with nominees about tomorrow's lynch. Disagrees about phagga, but wants to talk about it tomorrow. Could you focus your attention on him when you can? He is one of the more slippery players and it would be great if we could consolidate / clarify our read on him. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 10 2013 06:11 phagga wrote: I did not bring those things up because they only occured to me after I reread the thread/Filters in the 24 hour dawn phase. And my scum reads are djo, jay, yamato (which I actually forgot in this post after the line because I was in a hurry and didn't check my notes) and one of prplhz / Ve. My read on yamato is older and I will go through his filter now, also I will got through jays filter as he is currently more of a gut read (as written this morning). Mhmm yea, could you please address my actual case rather than my "I'm going to sleep here's a final footnote" post? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
On February 10 2013 06:47 VisceraEyes wrote: I wanted to discuss it with CHEESE tomorrow slOosh. I'm perfectly willing to discuss him with you today. -.- On February 10 2013 06:56 VisceraEyes wrote: That is, unless you just wanna talk to Palmar about it. I'll gladly just let you twist my intentions and lynch you for it later. <3 | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On February 10 2013 05:49 VisceraEyes wrote: I answered it in the post you quoted. Assuming Palmar is town, he kept it from the thread in an attempt to keep information from scum until after they've acted. In this way if they felt so inclined to risk putting one of their own up, they're more likely to do so. If they feel out of control of the even day lynch (such as if it were RNG'd as Palmar's plan suggests) then they're less likely to put one of their own up. With this field of nominees I reject Palmar's plan...as I feel like all of the nominees are likely town at this point and want to get rid of the most useless one...whcihever one that ends up being. For the record, the sarcasm was meant to be humorous, not inflammatory. The logic is pretty straight-forward in my opinion, I thought if I phrased it that way it would seem obvious and incite laughter. Clearly I was mistaken. Good day sir. But there are also advantages to saying it before the nomination phase. Scum are much less likely to put one of their own up if we're random lynching. Also, the plan can never work because random lynches never happen. Ever. You have never seen one and neither have I. The best thing we can do with it is threaten scum and argue about it for content. At least that's my opinion. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
Also, what are your reasons that you read me as scum? I have posted an early analysis of Yamatos play here which resulted in me leaning scum on him. Here are a few more things I noticed when going through his filter. Some of these are minor compared to the points I brought up in the other post, but they reinforce my read on Yamato. On February 07 2013 13:04 yamato77 wrote: Why do you think that? Perhaps some of what I've done this game hasn't gone the way I intended it to, but hey, shit happens. What about the things I am doing make you think I'm bad? I think I have a good chunk of the game figured out already. This is 26 hours into the game, and Yamato has the game figured out, or at least a good chunk of it already. That's pretty bold, considering that some players had been barely active up to that and several had not made any hard stances whatsoever.Unless, of course, he already knows the alignement of every player, which would make him scum. Now, let's have a look at this list: On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote: In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it. TOWN Oats Sloosh VE Mocsta Jay Prplhz CC NULL Djo Phagga MAFIA Palmar JX Snarfs The only thing left to do in this game is lynch into/see more of the bottom five and figure out which one is the town player. Right now I'd pick Djo. I didn't list these in any particular order, but my town reads are all fairly decent at the moment. It would take a lot for me to change them. Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. The really interesting part however is that the 3 people he lists as mafia are all lurkers who had all been called out by someone else already. THIS LIST IS EXTREMELY SAFE FOR A SCUM PLAYER. He does not list any scum behaviour for any of those people except for "they lurk" or in snarfs case: Yamato77 wrote like 10 minutes earlier: don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. That's the only reasoning why snarfs is in that list. Where is the alignement indication in this sentence? What makes snarfs scum? We don't know. Now I know it is not unheard of that 3/4th of a scum team lurks. But keep in mind that this game was designed specifically to force the scum team to be active. Of course there can still be a lurker (which is why for example VE or me advocated a Lynch all Lurker policy, or a variant thereof), but chances are that in this very game the majority of the scum team will be active. I say Yamato posted that list to present reads, and therefor make the impression that he is contributing. However, he knew that with this list he would barely be attacked/questioned for his reads. There were several other players for each of his scum reads who shared the sentiment at that point, and it would be easy for him to look contributing and hide in the masses at the same time. About his Mocsta case: Yamato was the third player to vote Mocsta after Oats and JX, and he first refused to make a case. On February 07 2013 02:07 yamato77 wrote: Anyone not willing to lynch Mocsta after reading his filter in those two games needs to provide a better reason than his "activity", please. It's quite clear to me that he's mafia. After being called out by sloosh he made a case, which was deemed weak by many (including me). Now, a weak case is not necessarily a scum trait, as town is able to produce them as well. So, let's just go forward and look at how Yamato later backs down from his case: On February 07 2013 13:14 yamato77 wrote: I think Mocsta might be town because I don't think a mafia player went through the effort to make that huge response. Also, in my experience, people that are this wrong about me are often town, a la Vivax in LIX. I'm content with the idea that he actually has a scumread on me, instead of it being an outright lie. Obviously some of you think he's mafia, such as jay and Oats, so why don't you guys make your own case? I think Djo made a decent point, yes, but I still think he might be town despite it. I thought my case was good, too, but he still might be town despite that. Yes, this is wishy-washy, as I've been accused of, but in all honesty D1 reads change very quickly. If you think I'm bad/scum for thinking he might be town after all this, you need to justify your read better. Mocsta is town because he defended himself, and because he is reading Yamato in the wrong alignment. How are this reasons in any way alignement indicative? I don't see how a townie backs down from a case for this. And then he lists several points that (in his opinion) speak against Mocsta, but Mocsta is town despite that. And, of course, all this wishy-washy-behaviour from yamato is no scum trait of him, oh no, you need to get better reasons. So he even knows he behaves like scum, but does nothing to avoid it, and instead puts the burden on all the others to find more reasons to prove he is scum. However, when you are town, would you not try to avoid this in the first place? Because first of all, it saves you a lot of trouble to prove that you are not scum, and second, it saves your town teammates the trouble of going through your filter to find out if you are indeed scum or not. Since his list post Yamatos reads have barely changed. He made Djo town and me scum at some point, that's about it. So now that two of his 4 scum reads have flipped town, I'm eager to know who else is mafia for him. Nevertheless, Yamato is scum. | ||
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Mr. Cheesecake
United States3756 Posts
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