EPTYou guys don't know how to focus.
Nomination Mafia - Page 46
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yamato77
11589 Posts
You guys don't know how to focus. | ||
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Palmar
Iceland22632 Posts
Can kill me if you want to. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On February 09 2013 12:59 Palmar wrote: None of us are mafia, just random lynch. Can kill me if you want to. I think this is the case also, but I think Sloosh is the best choice. If you live until tomorrow, play the damn game. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Who do you think is scum? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Sloosh? | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
##Vote Palmar I will gladly change my vote if I see a reason to, currently there is none. Sloosh had a decent start yesterday. He then dropped of to the point where i was warned because he failed to vote, which seems more of a personal life issue than anything else. He promised to show us more today, I'm waiting for that. While I was not 100% sold on Mocstas townieness yesterday, he is for sure the guy I would lynch last currently. @ Palmar: You mentioned a good plan for D2 yesterday, would you now share it? Also I would like to hear your opinions on who is scum and why (I don't need full blown cases, but a few pointers on why e.g. prplhz is scum would be nice) @Oatsmaster Scum Palmar does not lurk? Where did you get that? This is just nonsense, Aperture mafia is the first that comes to mind (he smurfed as Dirk Hardpec there). Palmar has broad style of Metas as town and scum, you cannont classify him that easily. I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). Finally, it's weekend, which is always family time for me, so less activity for the next 48 hours. I should be around again in roughly 13-14 hours. I MIGHT be reading/posting inbetween from phone. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote: (1) While I was not 100% sold on Mocstas townieness yesterday, he is for sure the guy I would lynch last currently. (2) I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). (1) If you're not "100% sold" on me: Do you have any questions you would like me to address? (2) I think it would be of great benefit if you can share that information *this* cycle. From the discussions so far, people seem believe it is 3 townies for nomination. Thus, we may as well use this cycle to discuss the happenings of the Day 1 lynch; maybe even pressure scum reads. Please share your questions/reads. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
Current vote discussion is NOT happening cause the parties involved, Palmar and slOosh, arent doing anything | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On February 09 2013 16:54 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, who do you want to lynch today? I need to hear what sl0osh has to say before making a decision. Due to: On February 08 2013 15:19 slOosh wrote: mmm .... for clarity's sake: I am sitting on my reads because I also have the unique advantage of a clean slate. If I give out a wrong town read, they can put one of themselves up and "gang up" on the 3rd townie. Thus with the flip I'd look bad and they can always draw attention away from themselves by pushing it onto me. If you are concerned by my absence, just let me take front and center tomorrow, so that I can have a great showing and (re)convince you otherwise. I think we had a great D1, and I highly encourage everyone to reread it. As an aside: My main problem with sl0osh and what I need him to re-address is "Why did he think he would be up for nomination" On February 09 2013 01:15 slOosh wrote: The optimal scum play is to therefore make nominations in a way that can eliminate from this pool of people. For instance, say there were three more JX esque players - townies with much suspicion on them. Scum would be shooting themselves in the foot by putting these three up for nomination because even though it results in a mislynch, it aids town because it means someone who is 1) or 2) didn't get mislynched, which causes headaches for them late game. I think it is arguable, sl0osh missing 3/4 of Day 1 does cast suspicion on him. This is followed up by "dangling a carrot" of 'clean slate reads'. Something I was not a fan. (We all have reads, why say this?) Using his logic of optimal scum play = 3 townies; it does not make sense for him to be included. | ||
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phagga
Switzerland2194 Posts
VE: You realize that when you unvoted Palmar here, Palmar had 3 votes? And that in the post above the linked post Mocsta considered switching his vote to Palmar? The only person having a considerable amount of posts at that point was Mocsta (also 3 I think), and people were moving away from him as lynch target at that point. So why did you think it was not possible to lynch Palmar when he was already almost the vote leader? Why did you no longer push him? Also, I posted this yesterday and never got any reaction from you. What's up with that? Djo: I don't like the whole RNG stuff too much. It was VERY obvious from the start that he was not serious about it, and the way he did it, it just did not feel convincing. It felt more like a rushed, badly executed plan, either because it WAS rushed (rather townie) or the actual discussion did not really interest him (scum). Afterwards he pressured Mocsta for quite a while, claiming that town does not tell scum players that they are matching their scum meta, unless they nailed the scum player. He banters back and forth with Mocsta over a few posts, reciting his arguments one last time here only to suddenly ask him if the want to lynch Palmar together. Djo, what happened in between there? Mocsta still gave you no answer, why the sudden change of heart? prplhz: I did not like his vote on VE at all. He talked about jaybrundage several times, but never actually voted him, although he clearly stated several times that he wants to lynch him. Then he said he liked Snarfs case, and didn't like the looks of VE (whatever that meant), and suddenly there's a vote on VE. That just felt wrong, his justification for the vote of VE is much weaker than his reasons for wanting to lynch jay. Snarf: The problem with his case on VE is that he built it on a single town/scum meta, when VE has shown different metas at least as town and cannot be broken down to a single behaviour that easy. I therefore don't think the case as a whole is viable. He is null to me. I feel very sure that at least one scum is in the group of VE, Palmar and prplhz following their interactions on D1. Right now I'd lynch palmar. Should he however start to play properly and show that he is town, then I would probably shift to prplhz. While I feel that VE behaved strangely around the Palmar/prplhz vote, his behaviour towards prplhz and me felt ok, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. that's that post. Additional scum reads are Djo and Jaybrundage, although the latter is more of a gut read currently. I will have to read through his filter to get to a conclusion, but as written before that won't happen before tonight. @Mocsta, it's not questions, more observations. What I was saying was I'm leaning town on you, but not yet 100% sure. I'm off now, kids are waiting for me. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 08 2013 15:19 slOosh wrote: That said, we don't want to focus the discussion primarily on the candidates tomorrow. Because if three townies go up (probably the case), it is to scum's advantage to focus discussion on them. 1) Because it means attention drawn away from their selves. 2) Gives them ammunition to work off for future lynches. In any case the discussion should also be driven and moderated and lead by the candidates. You know it's gonna be at least 2 townies, so by following their lead we will have good (town motivated) direction. It's like you guys don't even read. The worst outcome of today is time wasted by focusing on the nomination candidates. Let me and Palmar take front wheel and scumhunt into the non-nomination pool, of which we would all agree are at least 3 scum. If we are both town, then our interaction should produce a strong scum lynch list. If one of us isn't, then our interaction should reveal whom to lynch today. Again: D1 information is critical. We can't let scum skate by today pretending to scumhunt by choosing the least towniest of three people, because it is oh so easy for scum to fabricate town reads (no cognitive dissonance and awkwardness of interacting with a teammate naturally). If I sound like I'm repeating myself, it's because some players aren't getting it, and it's letting scum hide. The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote: I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his "really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: On February 07 2013 06:26 phagga wrote: I was rereading your dialogue with Sloosh, and the other post was already big enough. 1: I don't like how you accused him of making an association case (which he was clearly not), and 2: how you tried to dodge his questions. you not wanting to give town reads is not really alignment indicative. 3: You're case on Mocsta is rather weak, the tone of his posts vs Oats is completely different than what you posted from his scum game. 4: Your reaction to sloosh's questions feel over the top. You seem to bark at him for no good reason instead of just trying to answer his questions. It feels partially like someone who just got caught in the act and tries to hide it. Specially the following two posts stick out: and 5: Afterwards everything else is just you attacking him until prplhz points out to you that it might be beneficial for you to actually answer slooshs question. The way you explained why you thought I was town actually showed that you have reasons to believe so, and it's not because you'd actually know my alignment, which seems townish. Still, due to your reaction I slightly lean scum on you. Regarding Sloosh: Nothing I have read so far indicates that he would be scum. The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote: Doesn't do so.I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote: Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this:Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him On February 08 2013 09:52 phagga wrote: - VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there. On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote: I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite. So, yea that's that. We can start there. Palmar I want you to comment your thoughts on VE. Also, a fleshed out read on one of Cheesecake, snarfs or prplhz. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 09 2013 17:15 Mocsta wrote: As an aside: My main problem with sl0osh and what I need him to re-address is "Why did he think he would be up for nomination" I think it is arguable, sl0osh missing 3/4 of Day 1 does cast suspicion on him. This is followed up by "dangling a carrot" of 'clean slate reads'. Something I was not a fan. (We all have reads, why say this?) Using his logic of optimal scum play = 3 townies; it does not make sense for him to be included. I don't understand why me being included contradicts with my idea of 3 townies. The pool of people I referred to were good town players and "town" town players. I consider myself (and Palmar) the former, Mocsta the latter. I don't understand the danging of a carrot - I wasn't acting in a way to get myself nominated. The clean slate comment was an explanation of why I wasn't giving updated reads after a prolonged absence. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Just note that he didn't bother bring up most of those things during the actual day, and his final conclusion is "there is probably 1 scum in this group of three". Lots of questions but no real conclusions. Going to sleep because it's 2:38am and I have to be up at 8am and seriously why am I doing this to myself .... Next post will be around ... 1 or 2pm since that is when I'm free. If you have questions for me, consolidate them in a nice post so I can address each one clearly when I get back. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On February 09 2013 17:38 yamato77 wrote: We still have to pick someone who dies today, Sloosh. If we don't talk about it, how are we going to come to a good conclusion? It makes no sense to say we should just ignore the nominees. Sure it can: you let me, Palmar and Mocsta scumhunt. Looking at someone's scumhunting is the best way to determine their alignment, and so by what we say you will get a better read on us. We get some effective scumhunting done and the lynch can be decided later on in the day. Unless you really think one of us three is scum, in which case sure, go ahead and push that, but if it is a choice of "who is the least towniest", then I'd say that conversation is short sighted and unhelpful for future cycles. | ||
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