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On February 09 2013 17:39 yamato77 wrote:
Also you seem to think Palmar is actually playing this game, which is obviously not the case.
Well if Palmar doesn't do anything today it's obvious he should get lynched, so my procedure is the most effective thing to do since we get scumhunting done as early as possible. Going to sleep now, I invite you do look over / discuss my case / prepare questions for me when I get back.
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11589 Posts
I suppose that makes sense. I happen to agree with your read on Phagga, so for now I suppose we just wait.
Though, if we're going by your criteria, I fully expect Palmar to die today, which is less than ideal in my mind, as I explained before. You would have been my pick over him but I guess if you're playing and he's not, I'd rather have you live.
##Unvote
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sl0osh:
I have phagga as a scum read as well, mainly to do with the JX interactions. (haven't read your case yet)
With Palmar: I still want more on the below
On February 06 2013 23:29 Palmar wrote:
Btw I have a super day 2 plan to counter the mafia, just you wait.
I hope he wasn't referring to:
On February 09 2013 12:59 Palmar wrote:
None of us are mafia, just random lynch.
Can kill me if you want to.
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On February 09 2013 17:46 yamato77 wrote:
I suppose that makes sense. I happen to agree with your read on Phagga, so for now I suppose we just wait.
Though, if we're going by your criteria, I fully expect Palmar to die today, which is less than ideal in my mind, as I explained before. You would have been my pick over him but I guess if you're playing and he's not, I'd rather have you live.
##Unvote
Instead of reading this game last night, I was watching Palmars "read" video in Hero Mini. (1hr 40min takes a while)
I can understand wanting to keep him alive Day1 trolling or not. In particular with the Marv quote Oats found.
But as we all know, Palmar isnt a stupid guy and I would say is more than aware of Marvs quote and how to use/abuse it
P.S. watching that vid was nuts. In the first 5 - 10 pages of thread he nailed pretty much all the scum (other than marv/bugs the wrong way around)
My point is if he is town
On February 07 2013 23:05 Palmar wrote:
I can't be much around today.
Very quick reading makes me want to lynch cheescake, snarfs, prplhz
maybe phagga or yamato
So I'll leave my vote on prplhz
This list should not contain many town (if any at all). I mean, isnt this the reason town wants to gamble on him?
So yes we need Palmar to "flesh out" reads/tells on CC or snarfs or prplhz
If we agree with the reads (as scum) then we have 3 townies, and kill me for being the least useful (or RNG)
If we dont agree with the reads (i.e majority = town), then lynch Palmar.
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Alrighty. Just got up and 3.5 feet of snow at my door step, yay! I guess it's okay to post this now. Wrote it mid-dawn phase.
Jaybrundage
Votes Djo for RNG bullshit. Case spoilered for reference. On February 07 2013 09:42 jaybrundage wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Howdy all The person that stuck out the post for me was Djo. I'm surprised more people haven't commented on him. He starts out with his post. He seemingly "randomly" picks Oats out for a RNG lynch. But he uses Oats post number and uses a number that will give him Oats as his target. Its not random so why does he call it random. On February 06 2013 20:11 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 20:01 Oatsmaster wrote:The reason why we dont use random lynching is cause no useful discussion happens. As it stands, less then half the players have posted so far. Palmer. Hi. Is not acceptable for day 1. Please elaborate. This post was the 1131th post from Oast. I propose to use this number as the number to get our lynch candidate for today ! I'm going to give numbers from 0 to 11 to the players after me in the filter list and calculate 1131 modulo 12 which gives 3. This random lynch on Oastmaster has one chance over three to hit scum which is better than the average scum lynch on d1. So I propose a random lynch on Oast. I'm pretty sure I'm going to generate discussion. ## Vote Oats He proposes using the random lynch to create discussion. But then uses it as an excuse to stop conversation and discussion and not give his thoughts on Mocsta. On February 06 2013 20:46 Djodref wrote:
And to answer your question, I did not say that you did exactly what you did in your last scum game. But while reading, I also thought about this game before Oats brought it up in the thread.
So, yeah, I'm suspicious of you but not enough to drop my random lynch on Oats ^^ When Oats ask's him what his thoughts are on lynching him. Djo again dodges the question further showing that he never intended to try to participate in the conversation and discussion that his RNG lynch was supposed to create. He instead sidesteps the question because he wants other players to comment first. Citing Palmar as well trying to get solid town vet behind it. On February 06 2013 21:12 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
Djo,
You said the random lynch was to choose the target right? And to start discussion around the target right?
So what do you think about lynching me? I'd like to answer this question after I get the input from other players if you don't mind. I also would like Palmar to weight in on the random lynch thing ^^ How sure are you that Mocsta is scum by the way ? What is the most definite case you can bring against him ? Every since his RNG lynch he has been pushing Oats and not really contributing hiding behind his lynch to get away with saying anything of significance. Town Djo can write a damn good case. I think we have scum Djo here hiding behind a RNG to not contribute. Also note his complete disappearing act after contributing nothing.
##Vote Djodref
My concern with this is, it's an easy case to make. Scum want to pick out the easymode lynches. Kind of like how people pick on Mr. Z for being 'obvious scum' when he's always town, the guy that attacks him in usually scum. Like Mr. Z, Djo is an extremely easy target to point a finger at this early in the thread. No comments on Mocsta - Oats penis measuring contest, just snipes at Djo.
His next big revelation is that JX has been useless and he would loves to lynch him:
On February 07 2013 10:59 jaybrundage wrote:
@Oats my biggest scum read atm is Djo as i said so far. However as the day goes on ill be willing to consolidate if no one wants to lynch djo
I also think JX has been useless so far and wouldn't mind lynching him.
Okay, so an easy vote and an easy scumread on JX because he's useless and stuff.
Then there's this post...
On February 07 2013 13:25 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
lol jay i barely read dessert, just did the sexy flavor.
Oh Yamato and that list post. Palmar should be null imo Rofl didn't even read the game you cohosted. Trolling you in scum QT was fun  And yes that flavor was sexy not gonna lie. @Yamato You have alot more town reads then i would expect. Im also very interested in why you read prphz and CC they way you do. What made you think there town? Also is lurking the only criteria you have for making scum. Remember that Mocsta said in his scum QT last time that he wanted to be a leader in the town as scum. He has the desire. I don't think your giving him enough credit as a scum player. Dismissing him just because he applies effort is a bit disconcerting. Did you think he was gonna just say im scum you got me. @Mocsta if you could rate your scum play 1-10 what would you rate it. @Djo you choice 12 in your RNG to pick Oats as far as i believe @CC Your current best scum read. Also your biggest townie read @prphz Stop lurking. @JX Stop lurking @Palmar Stop lurking
Oh my goodness this post. Asks questions to half the thread. I don't understand what the point of 'stop lurking' to 3 people and asking mocsta what he'd rate his scumplay have to do with scumhunting buuuut okay.
He proceeds then to pressure Djo for more of his RNG bullshit, which is bullshit sure, but this pressure is not really achieving anything.
His vote on JX is suspect because I can't find a place in his filter where he has a discussion with JX. His reasoning seems also very sheepish and weak.
Overall, Jay is just that guy who goes for the ez 'loluobvscumbrah' vote, and then the ez sheep / consolidate vote.
Leaning scummer on Jay right meow.
Mocsta
From the start of the thread, the interaction between Oats/him made me lean more townie on Oats than him. Just searching through his filter I was like holy crap that many pages... He hasn't been on my scumdar at all lately. Recently, he asked me to go through his discussion with Jay. One thing I found weird:
On February 08 2013 13:29 Mocsta wrote:
I have had a re-read of Vers guide, and starting to look for specific things in play.
Jay, you are pinging the shit out of my scum-dar.
-snip-
On February 08 2013 14:52 Mocsta wrote:
Jay,
So if you dont see reasons for scum; how do you rate your town play this game as: pro-town, bad townie, or in the middle??
I still think we had different motives to consolidate. And I am still concerned you made a comment to consolidate and then fucked off. As I have said repeatedly,
where is your commitment to developing your read via pressure/analysis/alternative means?
Your play reads as if you dont care. All my questions regarding commitment you have dodged; why is that?
Jay
Do you have a top scum read? & why
Who is your top town read? & why
If you can answer these simple questions, that would go a way towards showing me you actually care.
On February 08 2013 23:02 Mocsta wrote:
CC
can you give thoughts on the convo between me/jay
do you see good townie, bad townie, or other?
Am I the only one that finds this weird? Calls him scum then keeps asking if he's a good town or bad town... Maybe he knows Jay is town? Who really cares what Jay thinks of his town play anyway, it doesn't help us find scum.
Perhaps, but a 9 page filter already... Mocsta (generally) seems rather pro-town at this stage. With a 9 page filter he's certainly not being apprehensive, but scum mocsta isn't afraid to do that. I'm a bit curious of him at this stage, rather leaning townie.
Phagga
He's really friggen paranoid. Take a look-see
On February 06 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 18:26 Mocsta wrote:
Fair enough, but are u implying that you thought his attitude was conducive to an open environment.
Oats has a (recent) tendency to post one liners asking to expound points already clarified. The outcome. Shit questions get shit answers.
Maybe u thought I over stepped the line in dissing him. But he was going out of his way to cherry pick sentences in a paragraph. For day1 i have been trying to promote discussion. I would contest he was actively killing the discussion. When did he promote an alternative?
If you want to judge me as null fine. But don't imply he is a saint in this but referencing only me. I never wanted to imply those things. I see Oats behaviour as disruptive, and I see how he misinterpreted your posts. It is also fine that you call him out on this, it's just the way you did it on a few occasions that got my attention. Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 18:37 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 17:13 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'
Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread. I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available. Phagga. Marv in Mafia LIX proved you can scum hunt day. As I keep saying I thought the whole point of this game setup was to mitigate lurking. Why are we talking about lurking again, and there prioritization over scum reads? If u want to counter and gibe the kitamen spiel again. Let's say your RNG plan found traction. Are you suggesting if you were the rolled lynch candidate that you would accept your fate without putting up a fight? First, I never ever wanted to suggest we RNG the votes! That would kill of discussion and is absolutely unnecessary. I just wanted to say that statistically, random lynches on D1 would be more successful than what town normally is doing, hence lynching lurkers (who can be a liability for town later on) D1 is a viable option. Nevertheless, our goal has to be to find scum and lynch them, starting D1. How the D1 lynch should go down IMO:
- If we have a clear scum suspect, let's lynch him
- If not, but there is a lurker who we can not get any alignement of, lynch him.Finally, only because the setup SHOULD mitigate lurking does not mean there will be no lurkers.
I mentioned this earlier and it still bugs me. "Holy crap I didn't mean to come off scummy I never ever meant to suggest we RNG votes thats so anti-town I'm not anti-town guys seriously". Phagga comes off as suuuuuper paranoid, like he's got something to cover up. In addition, the bottom bolded part is more obvious than Mr. Obvious McObvious. Nice contribution to the thread!
He also comes off as paranoid here:
On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On February 08 2013 02:34 phagga wrote:
At everyone voting Palmar so far, go have a look at Death note Mafia (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625). Palmar was trolly/lurkish D1 and was misslynched D1 with the exact same arguments as this game. I know He could be scum, but I feel that lynch is much more volatile than JX, of who I feel sure he will flip scum. Seems like a shiton of meta reads going down this game, myself included in this one. I think we should start leaning towards analyzing in-game behavior more. Phagga, you still irk me as being paranoid as all hell and now you're lurking like a boss. Since you decided to pop in here to defend Palmar, what say you to a Snarfs lynch? Set on JX? Dude I wrote i am on the train, how about you read my posts? Yes, set on jx. My point was more about scum abusing palmars meta, his behaviour so far is just not alignement-indicative, and he is probably the only one that I would let get away with it. Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him
I ask him if he'd like to lynch Snarfs with me, and completely is like "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about"
Next is his sheepy reasons for voting JX
On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:My vote goes to JieXian for coming into the thread and voting Mocsta for a bad reason, then completely disappearing again. ##Vote JieXianRegarding Palmar: he is trolling hard, I dont know if all you got this: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 01:41 phagga wrote:
Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?"
Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats? Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 02:19 Palmar wrote:
Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay? Nevertheless, he is trolling D1 as either town or scum, and I know how good a player he can be, so I hesitate to lynch him for now. prplhz dissappearance is worrying, might be timezone related. His filter is devoid of analysis. I hope to see some more from him in the next few hours. I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them.
He literally gives a sentence to support it, and it's been said before. By myself and by some others. The rest of the thread he doesn't even question JX much, just keeps his vote content there while he talks about prphlz and pressures VE. He has this huge post about VE and his voting with red text and all, but never votes him... he's confident in the JX lynch somehow. It's confusing: is he avoiding talking of JX in order to distance himself from a green flip?
I see no scumhunting from him in regards to JX the entirety of day. Such little interaction with him. It's like he was more concerned about a next lynch so he can set up his scumread on VE after JX dies.
Also wtf is all this crap:
On February 07 2013 18:56 phagga wrote:
sniped by JX, but doesn't really change anything for my vote for now.
On February 07 2013 22:56 phagga wrote:
oh wow, I got sniped big time. Reading up.
On February 08 2013 06:40 phagga wrote:
Bah, sniped again. Still, it's not like this is a completely uncontested lynch.
Also, where the hell is sloosh?
Keeps 'getting sniped' lol. Not alignment indicative but it made me laugh.
The fact that he votes but never really talks to JX should be indicative enough that he didn't care about the lynch.
Leaning hard scumster on this dude. He's paranoid as hell, shitty reasons / contributions to lynching JX, and posting obvious things early game that do nothing to help town.
Snarfs
Was soooo confirmation biased against this dude. Yamato was tellin' me not to be... but you know what? Idc he's scummy. I have my quarrels with him over my filter, and he seems so much like a tunnely scum. I'll elaborate more later.'
As of now, I'll lynch Jay / Phagga / Snarfs after nomination lynch. Oh, where's Djo? Did he forget his posting hat/wand/cape this game?
Haven't read the last couple pages since I went to sleep, catching up now. Might post between shoveling out the snow.
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The Plan
My idea was actually that simple. I wanted to remove any power from the mafia's hands by simply random lynching on their days. In a normal game we would have to deal with mafia night kills anyway. In this game that power is removed from them. They do however get a complete opportunity to manipulate the lynch on every even day, which is obviously hugely in their favor, it's not as strong as a simple kill, but their numbers make it very much viable.
Remember that if one of the three targets is scum, the mafia certainly has a clear plan in mind when they nominated that person.
If they want their buddy lynched, they probably have more than one mafia in the pool of candidates, hell I even considered pregame to suggest a triple mafia pool on day 1 if I rolled scum. If they want their buddy in the pool as not to clear townies, yet not lynched, they would present someone they're confident will not be lynched.
My entire idea was to simply remove all this wifom from the game, just randomly lynching into the three people nominated, making the mafia unable to scheme around their educated guesses on how town views each player at the moment.
I'm not sure we should go through with this, now that I am part of the pool, but oh well, I wouldn't object too loudly if we did.
The Hero
I'm not the hero town needs this game. I have stated on multiple occasions that mafia is all about investing time into the game. I have not invested enough time in this game to be worth what some of you perceive my value to be. I am at best a middling town player this game. There should be no reason to keep me alive unless you think I'm town and think I can provide further contributions to the game.
I am town and I will do my best to make up for my lack of presence this game. Even my town read on JX I wasn't sure enough in to actually do anything about his lynch (not that I could have...). I cannot change this game if scum is already winning, which they could be.
I however think we have a chance to win, but only if we clear out some mud, relax about today, don't get too caught up in arguing which random townie (since I really think we're all townies) we allow the mafia to take.
I'm not a hero, but I am part of town and I can help you the best I can.
The Future
Today is irrelevant, we lynch one of us in slight hope the mafia is being a bit silly.
I need to re-read mochsta, but based on effort alone he's less likely to be scum than Sloosh. Sloosh is a good player but meh, his turnaround on yamato looks at least like the thought process of a townie. He basically backed off after seriously going after someone based on further evidence, which at least shows an attempt to look like he's actively molding his reads instead of coming in with notions of how he must play.
It's tomorrow that's important. Tomorrow is when we actually have to hit scum. It should not be overly difficult, there's plethora of easy choices that I like. I stand by most of my reads from day 1. Djodref and Jay fall into kind of a grey area and I really need to re-read them.
Also I'm annoyed VisceraEyes hasn't assumed the leader role in town more than he already has. Not sure what it means but maybe I need to look at him. prplhz still seems somewhat scummy and so do phagga/snarfs/yamato.
I'm way behind on reading and it's hard to find the motivation to actually spend a lot of time reading knowing how far behind I'm in the game. I'm probably going to pick more superficial suggestions this game, but I'm going to make some good points at least.
Expect more before the lynch.
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Who would you lynch now and why?
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Your absence coupled with your nomination changes basically everything I was thinking about you Palmar.
I've been after Snarfs all D1. The reason I was reluctant to agree on prplhz was his lack of the obligatory "scumPrplhz Policy Lynch". However, his ridiculous notion that I'm scum late in the day feels almost scripted.
Between Snarfs and prplhz, who would you say has the highest chance of flipping scum Palmar? At this point I'm thinking prplhz based on him basically sheeping Snarfs' "case" on me. The only person who mentioned suspecting me on the panel today is Mocsta, and he actually clearly put some thought into the matter.
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And Palmar I want to know if you're going to be able to contribute later days. You admitted to not having put as much time into this game as is needed to play Palmarly. If you survive the lynch today, are you going to make sure you're not a candidate tomorrow when we're back in control?
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And finally, regarding Palmar's plan: no thanks. I've made my thoughts on the nominations clear. I think mostly townies are going to be up for nomination, so I'm going to advocate lynching the townies I think aren't going to be contributing later. As a result, I'm NOT lynching Mocsta unless he does something to make me think he's scum this phase because right now I think he's town and of the three nominated he's contributed the most to town discussion. slOosh disappeared at an important time during D1, so for me the lynch is between slOosh and Palmar. I will be lynching the one I think will contribute the least the rest of the game, and that's the end of discussion of today's lynch from me.
I'm going to do a full reread now and look forward to chatting with the nominees about tomorrow's lynch.
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@Palmar Why didn't you suggest that plan before d2? What's the benefit of waiting until after the nominations?
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Yes Palmar, what's the benefit of keeping information from scum until after they've acted? I'm eager for this answer too because applying the whole of my brainpower I can't think of a single good thing to come of that.
/sarcasm
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Because he didnt know the nominations? Maybe?
Prp, who do you want to lynch that is not one of the candidates?
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On February 10 2013 02:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yes Palmar, what's the benefit of keeping information from scum until after they've acted? I'm eager for this answer too because applying the whole of my brainpower I can't think of a single good thing to come of that.
/sarcasm
Can't you just not post if you don't have anything useful to say, or if you really want to, answer my question without the attitude?
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11589 Posts
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I'm fairly confident that we have three townies up for lynch atm. Palmar's last post reeked of genuineness.
I think that Palmar's idea about RNGing the vote has some good points behind it. Then Mafia would be alot more hesitant to throw there towniest looking scum and give him some town cred. Would mafia risk it on a 33 percent chance of getting away with it. I don't know. It's something to think about.
Also Phagga doesn't look good as others have pointed out.
But also has anyone else noticed that Djo has more or less dropped of the earth activity wise?
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I noticed. Cheese said something earlier too.
I've been filtering prplhz/Djo/Snarfs and I'll write something up a little later on.
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11589 Posts
That post from Palmar...
Ugh.
Just kill him. Put him out of his misery.
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On February 10 2013 03:19 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 02:43 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yes Palmar, what's the benefit of keeping information from scum until after they've acted? I'm eager for this answer too because applying the whole of my brainpower I can't think of a single good thing to come of that.
/sarcasm Can't you just not post if you don't have anything useful to say, or if you really want to, answer my question without the attitude?
I answered it in the post you quoted. Assuming Palmar is town, he kept it from the thread in an attempt to keep information from scum until after they've acted. In this way if they felt so inclined to risk putting one of their own up, they're more likely to do so. If they feel out of control of the even day lynch (such as if it were RNG'd as Palmar's plan suggests) then they're less likely to put one of their own up.
With this field of nominees I reject Palmar's plan...as I feel like all of the nominees are likely town at this point and want to get rid of the most useless one...whcihever one that ends up being.
For the record, the sarcasm was meant to be humorous, not inflammatory. The logic is pretty straight-forward in my opinion, I thought if I phrased it that way it would seem obvious and incite laughter. Clearly I was mistaken. Good day sir.
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On February 10 2013 05:32 yamato77 wrote:
That post from Palmar...
Ugh.
Just kill him. Put him out of his misery.
What's wrong with that post, can you explain please?
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EPT
