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On February 10 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote:(1) Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 09:40 phagga wrote:Since Sloosh specifically asked for it: + Show Spoiler +On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote:
I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Show nested quote +Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level.
Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler +Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:26 phagga wrote:I was rereading your dialogue with Sloosh, and the other post was already big enough. 1: I don't like how you accused him of making an association case (which he was clearly not), and 2: how you tried to dodge his questions. you not wanting to give town reads is not really alignment indicative. 3: You're case on Mocsta is rather weak, the tone of his posts vs Oats is completely different than what you posted from his scum game. 4: Your reaction to sloosh's questions feel over the top. You seem to bark at him for no good reason instead of just trying to answer his questions. It feels partially like someone who just got caught in the act and tries to hide it. Specially the following two posts stick out: On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:
I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far.
What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum.
You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. and On February 07 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:
Let's talk about why YOU think Phagga is mafia, Sloosh. You've said you think I should because of similarity to Mocsta, but aside from your first post you've done little to justify the read in the way of meaningful analysis from a personal perspective. 5: Afterwards everything else is just you attacking him until prplhz points out to you that it might be beneficial for you to actually answer slooshs question. The way you explained why you thought I was town actually showed that you have reasons to believe so, and it's not because you'd actually know my alignment, which seems townish. Still, due to your reaction I slightly lean scum on you. Regarding Sloosh: Nothing I have read so far indicates that he would be scum. The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler +And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:
I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. Doesn't do so. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote:
Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 09:52 phagga wrote:
- VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there.
Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote:
I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite.
I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something" (2) Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote:
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.
MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
who's the second guy to have flipped town? Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 09:47 phagga wrote:
There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), ....
phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete. [You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"] In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment. Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now" Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon
In short, I only have a limited time playing this game, normally about 2 hours a day, today even less. I'm not gonna waste a lot of time defending myself, and instead try to find scum. Should I get misslynched D3 that would suck, but it's not the end of the world for town, since they can still start lynching scum D5 and win the game (assuming nominations end up all townie).
Regarding my "scum-slip", believe what you want, I'll say this final thing on the matter: Scum slips normally happen when players post something rushed, a few lines to comment immediatly. I have never played scum, but I doubt I'd scumslip like this in a post I prepared for almost 2 hours. You insult my intelligence.
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Really Snarfs? Not even a comment on phagga? Seeing as how at least three people are ahead in your lynch list, it must mean you disagree with my case. Why not?
In fact, why wouldn't anyone want to discuss tomorrow's nominations when all the candidates are still here?
Do you guys see why I have such a problem with VE???
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Snarfs, why the hell do you want to kill Yamato, and especially Oats. Show your work, son. why in gods name are they the best targets tomorrow?
How do you feel about lynching phagga/prphlz/jay??? Also, why shouldn't I just wagon the fuck out of you tomorrow?You've done little to prove you're town to me as of yet. Lay off VE for a while and tell me what you think of those candidates or at least why yamato / oats. if you're sheeping people on yamato, just say so.
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Seeing as I personally don't think Mocsta is scum, I will be voting Sloosh as that's the most reasonable option for scum to be in the three of us.
Hell, if mocsta is scum, the day 1 slight pressure against him would probably discourage them to put him (of their 4) up for a lynch today. I'm almost certain not a single one of us is scum, and if I have to die, that's okay with me.
The less I hear from VE the less I like his chances of being town. He kinda looked alright initially but I don't like how little he cares that we're in some trouble here. We'll be in serious trouble if we fuck up tomorrow.
I don't think Sloosh is scum, and I don't think the rules allow us to no-lynch (as that would be broken beyond belief). Therefore I'm voting him by process of elimination. Other people have come to the same conclusion except with me as the target and well... whatever.
##Vote slOosh
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Palmar you never answered my question. Do you want to play this game. If you actually wanna play I think town would be fine lynching Mocsta or SlOosh instead. But the questions remains do you want to play?
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On February 10 2013 14:08 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 12:48 Mocsta wrote:On February 10 2013 12:39 jaybrundage wrote:
I would also like everyones thoughts on lynching VE tmw Are you preferring VE over phagga, (i.e is VE your best scum read) or just raising interest in general? I have a pool of players that I would be interested in lynching that are on mah list. Currently both are completely lynchable for me. (Its like lunchables but more bloody and delicious!) I usually have decent scum reads but getting the town to follow me can be hard. So I occasionally just sheep on a town read I have and try to follow thru with a lynch that I agree with. I used to do this alot with Palmar but he hasn't been very active this game : ( But Mocsta you didn't really give your opinions on the VE lynch are you just going after phagga or does VE appeal to you as well?
Can you please specifiy who is in the pool that you would like to lynch into?
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Jaybrundage:
On February 08 2013 09:48 jaybrundage wrote:
prplhz is getting pretty scummy. He keeps posting that im scummy and will flip red. But he never follows up. He just summarizes my actions. And says im scum. I would be find changing the lynch to him today.
My only doubt in the JX lynch is Palmar think's he will flip town.
Thoughts?
You say that prplhz is scummy, and later on imply that you would have lynched prplhz if he would have been an alternative to JX. However, here you write:
On February 08 2013 15:39 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 15:23 yamato77 wrote:
Seems Sloosh agrees with me, good stuff.
Let's all afk until the day post and leave mafia to ruminate in silence. This is a terrible idea. You should never do this town your only cutting off discussion. Keep pressuring your scum reads. Keep pushing for lynch who you think will flip and hopefully obtain better reads from there content. @Mocsta For my top scum read I don't have one atm. I think Djo hasn't dont much still. But not sure on his alignment. For my top town meh its mostly nulls. I realize these are pretty shitty answers. But i wont pull answers out my ass either. When I have a read on someone I'll come out and present a case/pressure them.
What happened to your read on prplhz? What do you think of him now?
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On February 11 2013 07:25 jaybrundage wrote:
Palmar you never answered my question. Do you want to play this game. If you actually wanna play I think town would be fine lynching Mocsta or SlOosh instead. But the questions remains do you want to play?
I think my recent contributions should be an answer enough for that. I am reading the game and I want to play, but I don't think I can claim I will carry the game, I will simply actively contribute thoughts and analysis that is slightly less accurate than normally because of how day 1 went down for me.
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Palmar,
I am choosing sl0osh due to motivation and activity. Hopefully one day I will get to see the full force of Palmar in action.
Thank you for sharing your reads with us; I think this will at the least help to set towns path in the right direction.
##Vote: Palmar
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phagga,
With the current situation and your perceived town cred; I think it is best if you stop trying to fling shit where ever it will stick. I know you only have two hours set aside each thus; thus, I recommend you use that time to respond to the accusations from sl0osh and Mr. CC.
I am sure you are more than aware of these - I mean, I don't want to insult your intelligence et. al - so I am just letting you know a response has been outstanding on these items for over 48 hours.
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My vote will be on Mocsta, by process of playing experience / strength.
I believe him town and really appreciate his efforts, but other than Palmar there is no one left in the playerlist that I have a strong town read on and someone who can help me focus town in getting right lynches.
That said I don't want this to be the cause for bad blood, and if you guys think I'm scum for it, I'm fine with being lynched too.
##Vote: Mocsta
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On February 11 2013 06:53 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote:(1) On February 10 2013 09:40 phagga wrote:Since Sloosh specifically asked for it: + Show Spoiler +On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote:
I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Show nested quote +Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level.
Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler +Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:26 phagga wrote:I was rereading your dialogue with Sloosh, and the other post was already big enough. 1: I don't like how you accused him of making an association case (which he was clearly not), and 2: how you tried to dodge his questions. you not wanting to give town reads is not really alignment indicative. 3: You're case on Mocsta is rather weak, the tone of his posts vs Oats is completely different than what you posted from his scum game. 4: Your reaction to sloosh's questions feel over the top. You seem to bark at him for no good reason instead of just trying to answer his questions. It feels partially like someone who just got caught in the act and tries to hide it. Specially the following two posts stick out: On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:
I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far.
What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum.
You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. and On February 07 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:
Let's talk about why YOU think Phagga is mafia, Sloosh. You've said you think I should because of similarity to Mocsta, but aside from your first post you've done little to justify the read in the way of meaningful analysis from a personal perspective. 5: Afterwards everything else is just you attacking him until prplhz points out to you that it might be beneficial for you to actually answer slooshs question. The way you explained why you thought I was town actually showed that you have reasons to believe so, and it's not because you'd actually know my alignment, which seems townish. Still, due to your reaction I slightly lean scum on you. Regarding Sloosh: Nothing I have read so far indicates that he would be scum. The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler +And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:
I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. Doesn't do so. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote:
Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 09:52 phagga wrote:
- VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there.
Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote:
I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite.
I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something" (2) On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote:
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.
MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
who's the second guy to have flipped town? On February 10 2013 09:47 phagga wrote:
There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), ....
phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete. [You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"] In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment. Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now" Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon In short, I only have a limited time playing this game, normally about 2 hours a day, today even less. I'm not gonna waste a lot of time defending myself, and instead try to find scum. Should I get misslynched D3 that would suck, but it's not the end of the world for town, since they can still start lynching scum D5 and win the game (assuming nominations end up all townie). Regarding my "scum-slip", believe what you want, I'll say this final thing on the matter: Scum slips normally happen when players post something rushed, a few lines to comment immediatly. I have never played scum, but I doubt I'd scumslip like this in a post I prepared for almost 2 hours. You insult my intelligence.
phagga.
Firstly i am not going to hammer vote someone because of a scum slip.
In your case, this slip is icing on a very very large cake.
I disagree with your line of thought though. Slips are nothing to do with rushing a post unless we're talking freudian slip.
But let us not insult your intelligence here. We're obviously not.
I would contest that spending two hours on your post is even more reason not to have a slip in the first place.
Further if that was the best content you could muster in two hours.. Well the only comment i have is an insult to your intelligence.
You see it is scum who always feel a desire to proof read and thus arebthe ones who require large amounts of time. Ironically thwn town is the one who rushes . Does not check . Hence leading to freudian slips.
So where does that leave us.
Simple phagga.
You
fucked
up.
That slip read natural to you because you couldnt separate yourself from the knowledge you have over town. Its that simple.
Tl.dr
i pulled out 2 hard scum slips in your short response and one very poor fallacy. Yet you took two hours. Admit it. You fucked up. Its ok. We al done it before when rolling scum.
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On February 11 2013 08:03 slOosh wrote:
My vote will be on Mocsta, by process of playing experience / strength.
I believe him town and really appreciate his efforts, but other than Palmar there is no one left in the playerlist that I have a strong town read on and someone who can help me focus town in getting right lynches.
That said I don't want this to be the cause for bad blood, and if you guys think I'm scum for it, I'm fine with being lynched too.
##Vote: Mocsta
no bad blood.
If palmar was committed i was happy to be voted off as weakest scum hunter of the three.
I stated this prior.
Having said that. Me surprised palmar is your strongest read but whatever. If we're still in. No bad blood from me.
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On February 07 2013 22:32 prplhz wrote:Something rubs me the wrong way about jaybrundage and his case on Djodref. No one else really reacted strongly to Djodref's silly random vote because everybody knew what it was: some sort of scheme to draw out scum. Pretty rediculous but at least he doing something. jaybrundage also acknowledges this himself here but he still uses it as a reason to vote Djodref. This gives him a place to put his vote and even though he's since gradually recanted this (like here), he hasn't unvoted. It seems like he is trying to keep the Djodref door open while not pushing it and not wanting to actually push anything else. It doesn't seem like a townie thinking "fuck yea, i nailed this cracker and it's so obvious! now i just have to get everybody else to listen to me!", more like "cool, i can just put my vote on him and then chill". How do you guys feel about jaybrundage?
This is prplhz' first post with content. I think this post clearly illustrates his scum mindset. My biggest problem with the post is the bolded statement. He already knows Djodref's alignment! Why can't Djodref be scum just putting junk in the thread? He calls it ridiculous himself, it's not going to help anyone find scum...he didn't even put himself in the damn lynch pool when determining the target! So why is it so clear to prplhz that Djodref's nonsense is "some sort of scheme to draw out scum"?
On February 08 2013 00:54 prplhz wrote:
I didn't want to talk a lot about JieXian because I wanted to see if he showed up on his own. He has posted around this time (actually a couple hours later) before in this game so I thought I'd not comment on him to see if he showed up again. If he didn't then I would be pretty sure that he was actually just not here which doesn't say much about his alignment. Of course this gamble doesn't work if I talk about it in the thread. Anyway, now that he's here he needs to start fending for himself since he apparently has four votes on him.
This post is regarding JX on D1...the timeline should be clear by the content. The thing I don't like about this post is that in spite of it going to lengths to explain how he was trying to divine JX' alignment, it's clear to me from this post that he already did. Look at the last line (particularly the italicized bit). It's like he was trying to show disinterest in the lynch while keeping a door open to vote for him if he needed to.
The lynch went the way scum wanted apparently because he can be found hard defending JX in the form of his laughable sheep onto Snarfs' "case" on me.
On February 08 2013 03:16 prplhz wrote:
I'm not sure. I want to lynch jaybrundage but no one else likes that lynch. I want to lynch Palmar but I see no reason to do it right now when we might as well just do it later.
I actually like Snarfs case on VisceraEyes.
On February 08 2013 08:28 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 08:20 Mocsta wrote:
Hmmm this ve stuff phagga in conjunction with snarfs case isnt looking good for ve.
[...] You can't mention Snarfs case as reasonable for possibily lynching VisceraEyes when you have said (repeatedly) that it isn't a good case. I can do that, however, since I've always liked Snarfs case. I don't like the looks of VisceraEyes. I'll lynch him over JieXian.
It's important to note here that prplhz has, up to this point, had ZERO strong scum reads. Even his jaybrundage read is ambiguous and unclear.
This is all I can manage today. I had started describing my adventures through filterland after this, but I'm super pressed for time today and won't be back until after lynch.
For todays lynch, it's clear (at least to me) that slOosh is trying to illustrate that he'll be here and active tomorrow. I'm not getting that feeling from Palmar at all - he still feels as distant from the game as he did at this point D1.
However.
Palmar is apparently reading prplhz the same way I am and slOosh wants me dead. Frankly I don't even get why, but the fact is that I think I'll have a shot at getting prplhz lynched tomorrow with Palmar around. Therefor I'm voting for slOosh. Sorry slOosh, stop reading me as scum when I'm town. Also your phagga read is bad because the main thrust of it is a meta analysis between a post from a different game mostly through D1 and a post in this game from the very beginning of D1. If you'd pull your head out of your ass tunnel then you'd see that most of your scumreads are you drawing associations to phagga or your read of phagga, and I think you're wrong about phagga.
##Vote: slOosh
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On February 11 2013 07:50 Mocsta wrote:phagga, With the current situation and your perceived town cred; I think it is best if you stop trying to fling shit where ever it will stick. I know you only have two hours set aside each thus; thus, I recommend you use that time to respond to the accusations from sl0osh and Mr. CC. I am sure you are more than aware of these - I mean, I don't want to insult your intelligence et. al - so I am just letting you know a response has been outstanding on these items for over 48 hours.
I said I read Yamato is scum and I try to point out stuff that I see as proof for that. And I was asking Jay questions to get a better read on him, questions, that, as far as I see, noone else has asked. Perhaps I was overly aggressive in my posts towards Yamato, but the questions about his reads are more than justified. And I hope you don't consider my post towards Jay as "flinging around shit".
Since you so much desire an answer, here my answer to Cheesecakes post:
On February 10 2013 00:03 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
PhaggaHe's really friggen paranoid. Take a look-see Show nested quote +On February 06 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 18:26 Mocsta wrote:
Fair enough, but are u implying that you thought his attitude was conducive to an open environment.
Oats has a (recent) tendency to post one liners asking to expound points already clarified. The outcome. Shit questions get shit answers.
Maybe u thought I over stepped the line in dissing him. But he was going out of his way to cherry pick sentences in a paragraph. For day1 i have been trying to promote discussion. I would contest he was actively killing the discussion. When did he promote an alternative?
If you want to judge me as null fine. But don't imply he is a saint in this but referencing only me. I never wanted to imply those things. I see Oats behaviour as disruptive, and I see how he misinterpreted your posts. It is also fine that you call him out on this, it's just the way you did it on a few occasions that got my attention. On February 06 2013 18:37 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 17:13 Mocsta wrote:On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.
Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'
Short on time. I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town. Will post more later. I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread. I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available. Phagga. Marv in Mafia LIX proved you can scum hunt day. As I keep saying I thought the whole point of this game setup was to mitigate lurking. Why are we talking about lurking again, and there prioritization over scum reads? If u want to counter and gibe the kitamen spiel again. Let's say your RNG plan found traction. Are you suggesting if you were the rolled lynch candidate that you would accept your fate without putting up a fight? First, I never ever wanted to suggest we RNG the votes! That would kill of discussion and is absolutely unnecessary. I just wanted to say that statistically, random lynches on D1 would be more successful than what town normally is doing, hence lynching lurkers (who can be a liability for town later on) D1 is a viable option. Nevertheless, our goal has to be to find scum and lynch them, starting D1. How the D1 lynch should go down IMO:
- If we have a clear scum suspect, let's lynch him
- If not, but there is a lurker who we can not get any alignement of, lynch him.Finally, only because the setup SHOULD mitigate lurking does not mean there will be no lurkers. I mentioned this earlier and it still bugs me. "Holy crap I didn't mean to come off scummy I never ever meant to suggest we RNG votes thats so anti-town I'm not anti-town guys seriously". Phagga comes off as suuuuuper paranoid, like he's got something to cover up.
I wanted to make sure I would not get misinterpreted. It was early in the game, and people don't have much to go with. I did not want to be the guy who "suggested the RNG vote". Hence my reaction.
In addition, the bottom bolded part is more obvious than Mr. Obvious McObvious. Nice contribution to the thread! That was a summarization what I wrote above. I just wanted to communicate clearly what I meant, to avoid confusion. We were talking about lynching lurkers there, and I wanted to make my point of view clear.
He also comes off as paranoid here: Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote:On February 08 2013 02:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On February 08 2013 02:34 phagga wrote:
At everyone voting Palmar so far, go have a look at Death note Mafia (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625). Palmar was trolly/lurkish D1 and was misslynched D1 with the exact same arguments as this game. I know He could be scum, but I feel that lynch is much more volatile than JX, of who I feel sure he will flip scum. Seems like a shiton of meta reads going down this game, myself included in this one. I think we should start leaning towards analyzing in-game behavior more. Phagga, you still irk me as being paranoid as all hell and now you're lurking like a boss. Since you decided to pop in here to defend Palmar, what say you to a Snarfs lynch? Set on JX? Dude I wrote i am on the train, how about you read my posts? Yes, set on jx. My point was more about scum abusing palmars meta, his behaviour so far is just not alignement-indicative, and he is probably the only one that I would let get away with it. Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him I ask him if he'd like to lynch Snarfs with me, and completely is like "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about"
This is a complete misunderstanding. Cheese writes: "you're lurking like a boss", which pissed me off since I had just posted a bit earlier. I thought he meant that I should be active in the thread now and had missed my post regarding me being on the train, so I wrote "Dude I wrote I'm on the train, how about you read my posts?". Everything after is disconnected from this sentence, which Cheese seemed to understand differently.
So My answer to his question "What you say to a Snarfs lynch? Set on JX?" was "Yes, set on jx". How he can interpret this as "No wtf I said I'm lynching JX what are you even talking about" is beyond my understanding.
Next is his sheepy reasons for voting JX Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:My vote goes to JieXian for coming into the thread and voting Mocsta for a bad reason, then completely disappearing again. ##Vote JieXianRegarding Palmar: he is trolling hard, I dont know if all you got this: On February 07 2013 01:41 phagga wrote:
Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?"
Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats? On February 07 2013 02:19 Palmar wrote:
Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay? Nevertheless, he is trolling D1 as either town or scum, and I know how good a player he can be, so I hesitate to lynch him for now. prplhz dissappearance is worrying, might be timezone related. His filter is devoid of analysis. I hope to see some more from him in the next few hours. I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. He literally gives a sentence to support it, and it's been said before. By myself and by some others. The rest of the thread he doesn't even question JX much, just keeps his vote content there while he talks about prphlz and pressures VE. He has this huge post about VE and his voting with red text and all, but never votes him... he's confident in the JX lynch somehow. It's confusing: is he avoiding talking of JX in order to distance himself from a green flip? I see no scumhunting from him in regards to JX the entirety of day. Such little interaction with him. It's like he was more concerned about a next lynch so he can set up his scumread on VE after JX dies.
About JX's first two posts: There was not really much more to be said before that. About everything after: Most people where faster with questioning his stuff than I was. Would you have liked me to fill up the thread with the same questions / remarks other asked? I saw what was presented to me in the thread and it made me content that he was scum.
Also wtf is all this crap: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:56 phagga wrote:
sniped by JX, but doesn't really change anything for my vote for now. Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 22:56 phagga wrote:
oh wow, I got sniped big time. Reading up. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 06:40 phagga wrote:
Bah, sniped again. Still, it's not like this is a completely uncontested lynch.
Also, where the hell is sloosh? Keeps 'getting sniped' lol. Not alignment indicative but it made me laugh.
That's me keeping to forget refreshing the page before posting.
Regarding sloosh's case, I really don't have much more to add, just this: His Meta case on me is terrible. He picked one post from one game from me. If any of you would actually go back and read more of my game openings, you would see that the paranoia cheese writes about and the weak entrances into the game can be found in other town games from me, some of it even in the very game that sloosh quoted. BTW, read that game to the end (Wheel of Fortune), it's probably my worst game I've played so far on TL.
Preedit: I see VE just wrote something similar about sloos meta case.
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Even though my last post reads biased to you phagga.
U put some effort in the defense. I will read it with open eyes
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I find it hard to believe that after 4 IRL days, prp has 1 tenuous scum read. And he has not pushed ANYBODY, just keeping in the background and trying to get away with it. His play is what I expect of scum or newbie town. Prp, are you newbie town?
Also, Im sorry sloOsh, I dont really think you are scum, but I think Palmar is even less scummy.
So, my vote is on you cause Mocsta has been actually playing the game.
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On February 11 2013 08:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
I find it hard to believe that after 4 IRL days, prp has 1 tenuous scum read. And he has not pushed ANYBODY, just keeping in the background and trying to get away with it. His play is what I expect of scum or newbie town. Prp, are you newbie town?
Also, Im sorry sloOsh, I dont really think you are scum, but I think Palmar is even less scummy.
So, my vote is on you cause Mocsta has been actually playing the game.
Bah. I find it hard to believe that you insist on purposely getting on my nerves all the fucking time yet here you are again. I guess I'll play along.
You're a moron.
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prplhz
Now that I know you're here.
Not sure if you realise, but guys like me and I assume Oats etc, think the things above about you; simply because you're a vet.
With that experience and reputation comes an expectation. Perhaps your town play in general is self-centered, but if you are town, we really need you to chip in more and provide your thoughts.
You say you were against JX, fine, that either shows two things
(1) Your scum and knew he was town
OR
(2) You're highly experienced, could see through the bullshit and made a right decision.
I want to believe its (2), but the only way that can be confirmed is if you start sharing more of your insight.
At the end of Day1, you were suspicious of Jay.
I questioned him somewhat, and he was a bit more active early this nomination day.
Is he still your top suspect to pursue come Day 3?
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LOL. Ok, dismiss everything I said by calling it a meta case. Anyone objectively reading the case could see that there is only 1 point in which I draw a meta analysis, which serves to strengthen a point that is already there.
- in this game phagga writes timidly, fluffily and without conclusions
- town phagga is capable of decent analysis, or at least confidence and clarity in his posts
It doesn't matter if phagga is having an off game, because that is not the distinction I make. He scummy this game. You could argue about the use of meta but it's at best moot - take out meta and my case still stands just as strong, and it's incredibly scummy to dismiss the entire thing by strawman argument.
I'm not drawing any associations from my phagga scum read. This is the exact same thing with yamato. Regardless of phagga's actual alignment, townies should act a certain way given what they have said. VE said he wants to talk to me about tomorrow's nominations. I presented my phagga case. VE did nothing at all in lieu of participating / contributing to the discussion, but all he did was say that he disagreed with the case (and didn't say why until I called him out on it).
What VE did is scummy independent of phagga's alignment.
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EPT
