Forge fast expand vs terran - Page 3

On April 18 2012 04:51 ZenithM wrote:
I think the Korean metagame involves a lot of mindgame regarding gasless openings from Terran (expand? or multirax play?). I just saw Hero use the Nexus first into gate + forge against aLive, and aLive had gone gasless but coincidentally enough for a second rax proxied in the middle of Metropolis. He pulled SCVs with his marine attack, but HerO defended with 1 cannon, 1 zealot and 6-7 Probes without losing a single unit and with aLive losing 5 SCVs.

The build looks fairly economical while granting some extra safety against "tricky gasless multirax" play. If you play on ladder and you don't encounter much of that, I suggest you just don't do this build at all and go for usual nexus into double gates or even 1 gate FE.

Edit: The game was Hero vs aLive, TL vs fnatic, MCSL (currently broadcasting)

On April 16 2012 08:18 EienShinwa wrote:


Oh, so nexus first into forges + cannons? Why not just nexus first into gateway then cyber and add more gates?

On April 18 2012 06:29 Swift118 wrote:


Of course. People really should not get too excited about a build that one pro uses in a tourny. A lot of mind games going on between 2 pros who probably know each others game pretty damn well. As for a couple of people who called it a "safe opener" well I not sure anyone could say that. If the Terran scouts, spots a ffe and they have opened gas they can instantly put tech lab on rax, drop another rax and commit to 2 rax reaper and still get their expo up in reasonble time while doing horrible damage to the Protoss player, even if your plan is to wait for a Stalker to help defend, the time you have a Stalker in an opener like ffe the Terran could have enough reapers to deal with it anyways.

On April 18 2012 15:59 Drowsy wrote:
This build is seriously amazing and awesome. I've only done it in a few ladders and I need to grind it out with a practice partner trying to poke holes in it still. It seems like you're only a little bit behind vs a fast 3rd cc from terran and can conceivably go for an early 6-7 gate allin if he goes that route. I'm really curious as to how this plays against the marauder hellion strategies that defeat normal nexus first pvt builds. Its so easy to tech to colossi and get double upgrades running really quickly with this build. Assuming he plays a relatively standard gasless expand with a 3rd around 9-10 minutes, you can easily have 3/3 done by the 15-16 minute mark and have dropped a 3rd nexus by 11 minutes AND have colossi tech to defend it. Great fun!

On April 18 2012 04:44 tar wrote:

You might consider stop infusing a valid discussion with bad arguments then

Fast banshee is not gonna kill you since u can either add cannons to ur mineral line or get a fast robo when u scout a terran not expanding gasless. Just saw a game today (code A i think, gotta check the vods once I am back home) where exactly that scenario happened and detection was out in time (even though the toss screwed up - his army being out of position).
As to the other points u come up with: the boost in economey u get by expanding that early will give the possibility to hold any push that tries to circumvent ur cannons, since those attacks come late enough to let ur FE pay off ( they gotta wait for medivac/banshee-tech finishing).
With regard to the reaper expand: There are always build orders that put u behind against certain builds, this one however seems to be a relatively save way to open nexus first (Hero defended a 2 rax from alive with this opener at MCSL). And u can minimize the damage from reapers with good micro and might end up even with the later expanding Terran.

There are different builds, this is a very save macro opener for certain maps, no need for u to talk down on the whole discussion just because you have concerns...

On April 18 2012 17:48 Thorzain wrote:
RoX.KiS.Pomi, the russian protoss, has been doing this build for a couple of months already.

I don't like it very much tho. If the terran is gasless, triple OC builds will be good against it. If the terran goes gas, an early elevator will come 1 minute before warpgates are even done, and it will be very hard for the protoss to stop it. It's very hard for the protoss to know what's coming when going up against a gas build going FFE. They have to build more cannons in anticipation of pushes at the front, so they will be even weaker against elevators in the main.

On April 18 2012 23:32 isrtor2 wrote:



As i noted, if you get cannon at your front and cannon at each mineral line just to defend all the possible things, the terran might as well get a fast third upon reaching your base and scouting this. You do not want to get cannons- if terran goes fast banshee and you made 2 cannons , then that banshee has allready payed for itself. The terran player can cancel any more banshees and put down a fast third cc... do some tech lab switching and continue his regular MMM after banshee build. If terran goes for a fast helion drop you will have a very hard time defending, since you have at most 3-4 stalkers(check timing if you want) and they need to be very well positioned or else you will lose a lot of probes. Hell.. most of the time you will probably just have 2 stalkers and the rest is zealot sentire you outright lose at least half ur workers unless terran controlls the drop very poorly.

I checked the timing for first stalker in respect to reaper first when going FFE and i just want to say : LOL, good luck with probe micro.. and better gg and not try to catch up(the timing various but the reaper should have a 20-40seconds! yeah thats actually 40 seconds! timing window to snipe probes)