EPTForge fast expand vs terran - Page 2
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lifeangelus
51 Posts
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pavement ist rad
United States226 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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Inquisitor1323
370 Posts
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
On April 16 2012 07:43 Genome852 wrote: What if the T just gets a reaper? And wouldn't it be much harder to deal with the 9-10 minute attack with 2 medivacs since your gateways are delayed? Reaper rushes probably would be a pain to deal with since your cyber is delayed, but probably not autolose with good probe micro. 9-10 minute timing attacks however shouldn't be a problem. In general you want to finish your 2 base economy, and then start your 2 base production. FFE doesn't slow down 2 base production, only 1 base production. You get your gateway production started faster, actually, if you're allowed to play greedier earlier on. So the window for punishing this would have to be earlier than that. | ||
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Carbonthief
United States289 Posts
On April 16 2012 09:25 pavement ist rad wrote: I don't understand why you need the forge. If Terran expands, then Protoss FE is super safe and canons would be a waste of money. Well I would assume the cannon is just to deny scouting, not to be safe. The fast forge also allows you to start upgrades right away, which could lead to a faster +2 timing attack, or a faster +1 pressure. | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
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digmouse
China6326 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On April 16 2012 07:43 Genome852 wrote: What if the T just gets a reaper? And wouldn't it be much harder to deal with the 9-10 minute attack with 2 medivacs since your gateways are delayed? If terran is opening reaper already then that kind of kills this pretty hard. If Terran decides to go reaper after scouting you, you can probably get a stalker out to deal with it without taking too much damage, maybe a probe loss or two. | ||
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GuoJing
France30 Posts
9 pylon 3 CB 17 nexus 17 forge (oz hides this forge with the first pylon being on a corner of his base) 18 pylon at natural ( so that you can build a canon at top of the ramp) 18 gate 19 canon (except if you scouted cc first maybe ?) 20 double gas 24 core 25 zealot adjust your CB depending on what you scouted or if you want to be greedy or not. main things in order (in case you scout there will be no aggression i guess) : +1 armor WG stalker, sentry + 2 gates nexus @ third base Robo +1 attack (@60% +1 : twilight council) more gates etc. choose your tech path etc. | ||
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vBr
Sweden193 Posts
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Nihonjin
66 Posts
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isrtor2
76 Posts
Sure this build could work against some builds, the terran may scout late / prehaps will be going for some FE build that will not allow him to get reapers/banshees/drops/tanks fast enough but as MC likes to say: " this is not a poker game", we need builds that can deal with most builds that could come out of our opponet. | ||
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tar
Germany991 Posts
On April 18 2012 02:39 isrtor2 wrote: FFE against terran...im tired of bad discussions. The reason is that a reaper will reach your base before you can have a stalker out and deny mining or kill probes for long enough to make the FE not worth / will outright lose you the game. The fact that you might(if your opponent doesnt multitask well) trap the reaper with probes is true but quite bad to say the least. How will you deal with fast banshee? helion drop? and more... the fact that the cannons delay your gateways and other core infrastructure means that holding anything but a frontal(on the ramp) mm attack into your cannon will be even more difficult. Sure this build could work against some builds, the terran may scout late / prehaps will be going for some FE build that will not allow him to get reapers/banshees/drops/tanks fast enough but as MC likes to say: " this is not a poker game", we need builds that can deal with most builds that could come out of our opponet. You might consider stop infusing a valid discussion with bad arguments then Fast banshee is not gonna kill you since u can either add cannons to ur mineral line or get a fast robo when u scout a terran not expanding gasless. Just saw a game today (code A i think, gotta check the vods once I am back home) where exactly that scenario happened and detection was out in time (even though the toss screwed up - his army being out of position). As to the other points u come up with: the boost in economey u get by expanding that early will give the possibility to hold any push that tries to circumvent ur cannons, since those attacks come late enough to let ur FE pay off ( they gotta wait for medivac/banshee-tech finishing). With regard to the reaper expand: There are always build orders that put u behind against certain builds, this one however seems to be a relatively save way to open nexus first (Hero defended a 2 rax from alive with this opener at MCSL). And u can minimize the damage from reapers with good micro and might end up even with the later expanding Terran. There are different builds, this is a very save macro opener for certain maps, no need for u to talk down on the whole discussion just because you have concerns... | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
The build looks fairly economical while granting some extra safety against "tricky gasless multirax" play. If you play on ladder and you don't encounter much of that, I suggest you just don't do this build at all and go for usual nexus into double gates or even 1 gate FE. Edit: The game was Hero vs aLive, TL vs fnatic, MCSL (currently broadcasting) | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
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Aerohank
12 Posts
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Hiea
Denmark1538 Posts
With the cannon your much safer vs 2rax than a standard nexus first. A reaper will do damage yes, but if you get such an early reaper, the chances are your expansion is delayed aswell, so its probably gonna end up about even or abit in his favor unless he messes up his control. | ||
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