EPT[D] Stalker rush - 5 stalkers at 5 mins - Page 3
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eGoTricKShoT
United States46 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Chronicle
161 Posts
On November 15 2010 14:22 Antisocialmunky wrote: Why not just make only zealots vs Zerg? Because then its a Korean 4 gate. | ||
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Xyrest
United States18 Posts
Then...wouldn't this be a Korean 4 gate...but with stalkers instead of zealots? Edit: Also as others have said I believe vs Zerg it might be a problem because lings really kill stalkers once they get a surround on you, and against Terran they can just put up a bunker once they scout your early aggression build. In my honest opinion it might be mainly viable vs Protoss simply because I don't think they'd have a way to defend this unless if they just plain out micro you. I'll test it when I get a chance tomorrow morning and give a more detailed report. | ||
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Chronicle
161 Posts
The main strength of this build is in pvp as you can kite zealots easily vs a standard 4 warpgate get to his base with 5 stalkers before he begins warping in. Its also pretty strong at breaking down the walls of Terran since you can snipe units over the wall and 5 stalkers can focus down a depos in a wall while 7 zealots could not. In PvZ it has its uses if you can supply block the zerg, but I still think 3 or 4 gate builds are better for this. Some lings + spinecrawler shuts this down hard and even though this hurts zergs econ alot, it'll still be much better than yours. | ||
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KaoReal
Canada340 Posts
On November 15 2010 10:24 Warp wrote: an immortal.. really? I love this build cuz its just liek the 3rr <3 Love that cheese yeah i took a look at the replay and i botched the chronoboost a bit. late by about 30 secs, which apparently is a big deal with this cheese. | ||
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SubPointOA
United States183 Posts
On November 15 2010 10:24 Warp wrote: an immortal.. really? I love this build cuz its just liek the 3rr <3 Love that cheese LAWLZZ THE IMMORTAL PART MADE ME LAUGH SO HARD | ||
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Helluva
United States651 Posts
False. He clearly stated that you only make 2 gates, not 4. Korean 2 gate perhap? x.x | ||
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Hurkyl
304 Posts
The critical path is: 25 seconds for Pylon 65 seconds for Gateway 50 seconds for Cybernetics Core 93 seconds for Chrono Boosted Warp Gate research 10 seconds for Warp Gate For a total duration of 4:03 (and a third). If you pick a starting point, such as 9 Pylon at 0:44, then the best possible is to have the conversion finish 4:47. Then you just work backwards when things must happen. In 93 + 10 seconds, we don't have time for one gateway to build three Stalkers, unless we use two Chrono Boosts. I'll assume we don't have that many to spare. (But this should be checked!) So, we need to build 2 Stalkers from Gateway #1, and 1 Stalker from Gateway #2. Assuming we don't use Chrono Boost, Gateway #1 has to start making Stalkers at 3:13, and Gateway #2 has to start at 3:55. This means Gateway #2 has to be started at 2:50. We need 100 gas by 3:13 (for Warp Gate and for Stalker), which takes 50 seconds to harvest. Also, we need 200 gas by 3:55 and 300 by 4:47. The Assimilator must finish by 2:15, and so must be started at 1:45. (EDIT -- something's wrong with my calculation. Assimilator needs to start at 1:35) I wasn't able to get the Gateway started until 1:12, so add three seconds to all the timings. A bit of fast forward shows we have 175 minerals to spare when we need to build the Cybernetics Core at 2:17. So let's try making 4 more probes. Let's also try a Chrono Boost, since much energy would go to waste otherwise. Continuing along the same idea, I come to: 9 Pylon 9 Gateway 10 Use 1 Chrono Boost on Nexus 11 Assimilator 13 Cybernetics Core 15 Gateway 16 Warp Gate research 16 Start chain Chrono Boosting the Cybernetics Core 16 Stalker 18 Pylon 19 Stalker Stalker 24 Forward Pylon 26 Warp in Stalker Stalker I sent the forward probe out the same time my first Stalker finished, and I got to start warping two Stalkers into the middle of Steppes of War at 4:53, with my force of 5 Stalkers assembled there at 4:58. I ran this build on slowest speed, so I imagine in a real game, one might have to cut a probe or two to get this timing off of the 9 pylon opening. Why can I get so many more probes than the version produced by the optimizer? It's probably some combination of:
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe 0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe 0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe 0:46.44: 113M 0G 25E 9/ 10S - Chrono Nexus 0:50.81: 138M 0G 2E 9/ 10S - Build Probe 0:53.00: 100M 0G 4E 10/ 10S - Build Pylon 1:05.80: 75M 0G 11E 10/ 10S - Build Assimilator 1:27.35: 150M 0G 23E 10/ 18S - Build Gateway 1:35.22: 50M 0G 27E 10/ 18S - Build Probe 1:35.80: 4M 0G 28E 11/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 1:35.80: 4M 0G 28E 11/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 1:52.22: 95M 23G 37E 11/ 18S - Build Probe 2:09.05: 150M 47G 46E 12/ 18S - Build Gateway 2:32.35: 156M 79G 60E 12/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core 2:39.23: 50M 89G 63E 12/ 18S - Build Probe 2:56.23: 118M 113G 73E 13/ 18S - Build Probe 3:22.35: 277M 149G 88E 14/ 18S - Build Stalker 3:22.35: 152M 99G 88E 16/ 18S - Build Pylon 3:22.35: 52M 99G 88E 16/ 18S - Chrono Gateway 3:31.62: 125M 112G 68E 16/ 18S - Build Stalker 3:31.62: 0M 62G 68E 18/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 3:54.35: 178M 105G 81E 18/ 26S - Build Stalker 3:54.35: 53M 55G 81E 20/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:13.62: 204M 92G 67E 20/ 26S - Build Stalker 4:13.62: 79M 42G 67E 22/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:14.35: 85M 43G 42E 22/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:22.35: 148M 59G 21E 22/ 26S - Build Stalker 4:25.83: 50M 15G 23E 24/ 26S - Build Probe 4:33.62: 61M 30G 28E 25/ 26S - Chrono Gateway Waypoint 1 satisfied: 4:50.35: 197M 62G 12E 25/ 26S Buildings: 1 Nexus 1 Assimilator 2 Pylon 2 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core Units: 15 Probe 5 Stalker Upgrades: | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On November 15 2010 16:44 Jayrod wrote: Here is a clip from that fancy new build order optimizer that some dude posted earlier. It comes out faster without the warp gate tech. Note only putting 2 on gas, then adding a 3rd later. Be a good test for the BO optimizer + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 0E 6/ 10S - Build Probe 0:19.00: 73M 0G 10E 7/ 10S - Build Probe 0:36.00: 106M 0G 19E 8/ 10S - Build Probe 0:46.44: 113M 0G 25E 9/ 10S - Chrono Nexus 0:50.81: 138M 0G 2E 9/ 10S - Build Probe 0:53.00: 100M 0G 4E 10/ 10S - Build Pylon 1:05.80: 75M 0G 11E 10/ 10S - Build Assimilator 1:27.35: 150M 0G 23E 10/ 18S - Build Gateway 1:35.22: 50M 0G 27E 10/ 18S - Build Probe 1:35.80: 4M 0G 28E 11/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 1:35.80: 4M 0G 28E 11/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 1:52.22: 95M 23G 37E 11/ 18S - Build Probe 2:09.05: 150M 47G 46E 12/ 18S - Build Gateway 2:32.35: 156M 79G 60E 12/ 18S - Build Cybernetics Core 2:39.23: 50M 89G 63E 12/ 18S - Build Probe 2:56.23: 118M 113G 73E 13/ 18S - Build Probe 3:22.35: 277M 149G 88E 14/ 18S - Build Stalker 3:22.35: 152M 99G 88E 16/ 18S - Build Pylon 3:22.35: 52M 99G 88E 16/ 18S - Chrono Gateway 3:31.62: 125M 112G 68E 16/ 18S - Build Stalker 3:31.62: 0M 62G 68E 18/ 18S - Move Probe To Gas 3:54.35: 178M 105G 81E 18/ 26S - Build Stalker 3:54.35: 53M 55G 81E 20/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:13.62: 204M 92G 67E 20/ 26S - Build Stalker 4:13.62: 79M 42G 67E 22/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:14.35: 85M 43G 42E 22/ 26S - Chrono Gateway 4:22.35: 148M 59G 21E 22/ 26S - Build Stalker 4:25.83: 50M 15G 23E 24/ 26S - Build Probe 4:33.62: 61M 30G 28E 25/ 26S - Chrono Gateway Waypoint 1 satisfied: 4:50.35: 197M 62G 12E 25/ 26S Buildings: 1 Nexus 1 Assimilator 2 Pylon 2 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core Units: 15 Probe 5 Stalker Upgrades: problem being that those stalkers that walk out of a gateway have to run alllll the way to opponent base. Warp-in allows for instantaneous action | ||
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
Will give this a shot. | ||
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Chronicle
161 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:55 Sawyer wrote: False. He clearly stated that you only make 2 gates, not 4. Korean 2 gate perhap? x.x Your not not the sharpest tool in the box. Learn 2 Read posts before you make stupid comments. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On November 15 2010 14:22 Antisocialmunky wrote: Why not just make only zealots vs Zerg? Because then roaches rape your face. This is the same reason that it is impossible to 2/3gate a FE zerg anymore. I can see this working very well vs zerg. Even if they go fast speedlings with 13 gas 13 pool or something like that you have a few minutes before the upgrade is in effect, and you can kite slowlings pretty effectively with stalkers, and stalkers do decently vs spinecrawlers and roaches. | ||
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Phrencys
Canada270 Posts
On November 15 2010 16:00 Hurkyl wrote: Why can I get so many more probes than the version produced by the optimizer? It's probably some combination of:
The optimizer will tank your economy even if only to make that 5th stalker 2seconds sooner. That's why. Dudemeister's BO: 8 Pylon 5 Stalkers at the 4:49 mark # of probes: 12 Your BO: 9 Pylon 5 Stalkers at the 4:57 mark # of probes: 17 I think 5 probes > 8 seconds in this case. Also more inline with the 7RR Dudemeister refers to since it has 18 workers + 7 roaches. | ||
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Perscienter
957 Posts
Will fail against
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OfficerTJHooker
Canada97 Posts
However, I am interested in knowing the timing of when speedlings pop. If a zerg went for mutaling and he has a couple of spine crawlers and a dozen lings with speed research almost completed, I'm assuming this build would get stomped. | ||
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pxds
Brazil72 Posts
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ribboo
Sweden1842 Posts
On November 16 2010 02:15 Perscienter wrote: Cheese. Will fail against
Speedlings come out way later. You'll have plenty of time to snipe of overlords, queens and force him to pump lings instead of drones. 2 fast stalkers are a great tactic against Zergs, 5 I'm not sure about, but you still have a timing window. Maruders, snipe of every marine you can and go fast voids. Quite good tactic against T who's going to many maruders. Bunker, well, he's contained, go exp or something. Units and spine crawler, 99% of Zergs go for FE. There are plenty of maps were spine crawlers won't cover the expansion. Snipe drones, overlords and lings. If you go for the slightly delayed 5 stalker push, you won't be behind very much econ-wise and you can still do some damage. This tactic won't give you the win, but if you go for the slightly more economic one, you'll be rather well set-up for midgame. | ||
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