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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Hapa, your case on Mementoss is pretty bullshit. It's largely based on MY case on prplhz being non-believable. You know what? Mementoss might be scummy, but for reasons other than that he immediately liked the prplhz case. You haven't really extended the case on him since the initial vote early in the day, and you unvoted him, so I don't think you're as sure on the prplhz case as you claim you are. At least, you don't appear to be to me. He also calls out people he thinks are joining the badwagon in a shitty way (austinmcc) which displays a level of critical thinking and aggression towards the wagon formers that indicates he's probably a townie.
Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:
1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post.
2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings.
Overall, I think the exchange between these two shows Hapa grasping for non-reasons to vote for Mementoss, which is rather un-Hapa-like. Watching Hapa kick around a weaker player like this, one who isn't immediately scummy (though he has a worryingly low post count) slightly lowers my opinion of Hapa but does not change my read on Mementoss. Overall, Hapa, your case on Mementoss is old and unconvincing.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Blazinghand's Ghetto Votecount:
austinmcc ( 2 ) Marvellosity, mkfuba07
marvellosity ( 2 ) Palmar, prplhz
Hapa ( 1 ) HiroPro
prplhz ( 5 ) Ange777, blazinghand, bluelightz, Mementoss, Zephirdd
Zephirdd ( 1 ) iamperfection
Mementoss (2) Austinmcc, Hapahauli
Presently, no one is set to be lynched! 2.5 hours remain in Day 1 !
All you idiots who are jumping off the Prplhz wagon to do shit like vote for Hapa and other bad wagons are... well, you're idiots for doing that. Look, we've got like 2.5 hours left to get 7 votes onto someone. That someone should be prplhz, and if you think prplhz is scummy and your vote isn't on him, you're saying "I'd rather no-lynch than vote for scummy prplhz".
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
That's a pretty big pile of bullshit right there, BH.
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marv, you've been asking everyone else and been thinking. Is mementoss a lynch candidate for you, regardless of whether you find me scummy?
On September 20 2012 01:08 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, could you give me your current read on austin, please?
On September 20 2012 01:09 marvellosity wrote:
also while I'm at it, Palmar, what do you make of Mementoss?
On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity?
On September 20 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote:
Blazing, could you throw me a read on austin + mementoss?
I know you're missing responses to a lot of your questions, but you noted that some of mementoss's filter looked scummy and that some of my points were decent.
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings.
On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now.
If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question?
BLUELIGHTZ, WHATCHOO FEEL ABOUT MEMENTOSS?
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 20 2012 03:42 marvellosity wrote:
That's a pretty big pile of bullshit right there, BH.
Not as big a pile of bullshit as no-lynching, which is currently what's gonna happen. There's like 4 people in thread and 2 of us already have votes on prplhz.
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I will follow the two guys I think are town.
## unvote
## vote austinmcc
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question?
Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party.
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On September 20 2012 03:30 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
For the other lynches that I see, I'd be in favor of austin. A little bit because of what marv has said (the actual explanations for his obvious comment only coming when under significant pressure.
But it's mostly because of the way in which he's treated the case on Mementoss that he's brought up (not what he's said, which is mostly stuff that could be scummy, but is really mostly just a weak tell, but the way in which he's said it.). I've seen austin come back from generally not doing much and then proceeding to post a case on a fairly new target (he did it in Bureaucracy to Sandroba and then gave a read on GGQ when I asked him).
In that game he was very bold with the way he pushed his case. His thing was completely off but he treated it like a guaranteed case, called out sandroba when no one else was, and just gave off this confident and aggressive attitude. I had found him scummy before that but the way in which he was so bold despite lurking before really struck me as townie.
Look at the way that he's come back from an absence in this game though. He's apologetic about being gone, he's apologetic about offering a new candidate when there are already other options on the table. He at first throws out two names which look fairly easy and then only later once people pressure him for it, does he decide to read through and go somewhere else. This is scummy. I can see where you're getting this, but you should take another look at Bureaucracy. I called out Sandroba because I thought he was actually scum, yes. But I explained that one reason I was pushing it so hard is that I wanted to survive for a while and had seen that newish guy + paranoid case = survive. As long as you don't come off scummy and you generally tank your cred, scum has no reason to kill you and you live for a bit (See: my experience in LV and my explanation for my Bureaucracy conduct). I wanted more days to check more messages that game with my role, so it made sense to play that way. After that, I'm pretty sure I slipped back again and didn't do too much. I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play. I don't have a townie reason for it. But look at the timing on my return post and the mementoss post. I'm not only looking up mementoss because I'm getting crap for being away. I was actually off looking at things right after returning, and that was already in the works. Reading through some filters wasn't a response to pressure there. It's a way of trying to contribute beyond just saying "Here's some stuff I think about what's already happened that others have probably said."
I don't see anywhere in Bureaucracy where you explained that you were purposely trying to come off as paranoid.
On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen.
Why would you make a post like this without fully reading the thread? It's not like anyone had just asked you for your opinion on those two. I don't buy the deadline explanation you gave - there was plenty of time still left in the day.
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No one wants to lynch hapa?
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On September 20 2012 03:47 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:30 austinmcc wrote:On September 20 2012 03:22 HiroPro wrote:
For the other lynches that I see, I'd be in favor of austin. A little bit because of what marv has said (the actual explanations for his obvious comment only coming when under significant pressure.
But it's mostly because of the way in which he's treated the case on Mementoss that he's brought up (not what he's said, which is mostly stuff that could be scummy, but is really mostly just a weak tell, but the way in which he's said it.). I've seen austin come back from generally not doing much and then proceeding to post a case on a fairly new target (he did it in Bureaucracy to Sandroba and then gave a read on GGQ when I asked him).
In that game he was very bold with the way he pushed his case. His thing was completely off but he treated it like a guaranteed case, called out sandroba when no one else was, and just gave off this confident and aggressive attitude. I had found him scummy before that but the way in which he was so bold despite lurking before really struck me as townie.
Look at the way that he's come back from an absence in this game though. He's apologetic about being gone, he's apologetic about offering a new candidate when there are already other options on the table. He at first throws out two names which look fairly easy and then only later once people pressure him for it, does he decide to read through and go somewhere else. This is scummy. I can see where you're getting this, but you should take another look at Bureaucracy. I called out Sandroba because I thought he was actually scum, yes. But I explained that one reason I was pushing it so hard is that I wanted to survive for a while and had seen that newish guy + paranoid case = survive. As long as you don't come off scummy and you generally tank your cred, scum has no reason to kill you and you live for a bit (See: my experience in LV and my explanation for my Bureaucracy conduct). I wanted more days to check more messages that game with my role, so it made sense to play that way. After that, I'm pretty sure I slipped back again and didn't do too much. I DO think my conduct this game looks scummier than that play. I don't have a townie reason for it. But look at the timing on my return post and the mementoss post. I'm not only looking up mementoss because I'm getting crap for being away. I was actually off looking at things right after returning, and that was already in the works. Reading through some filters wasn't a response to pressure there. It's a way of trying to contribute beyond just saying "Here's some stuff I think about what's already happened that others have probably said." I don't see anywhere in Bureaucracy where you explained that you were purposely trying to come off as paranoid. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 22:41 austinmcc wrote:
I have been absent. I am getting this vote into thread because the deadline is coming. I like it better than the other options that MIGHT be legitimate at this point, which seem to be ... just marv?
##Vote: prplhz
I think I'd much rather lynch bluelightz, unless there's been any action on that front, but I don't believe that's going to happen. Why would you make a post like this without fully reading the thread? It's not like anyone had just asked you for your opinion on those two. I don't buy the deadline explanation you gave - there was plenty of time still left in the day.
Bureaucracy post is the first point in the spoiler here - On July 28 2012 04:52 austinmcc wrote:Hey guys, I'll knock it off with the poor play and the games. I too, am a nosy employee. Rastaban explains the role the way mine is, I can choose one person every full cycle to snoop, and I see PMs that they sent/received. I chose different targets than Rastaban did, and have been lightly poking Rastaban and Gonzaw to make sure that I had things nailed down, because, if not, I knew the identity of the president of marketing and could just snoop him tomorrow to get more messages. In the interest of keeping things simple and on the slim chance I could get killed tonight, I will reveal everything, and I can sort of explain everything, including the two chezinu messages, in a way that makes some sense. Gonzaw, risk.nuke, and most likely, Q-bert-Z are the remaining scumteam. (1) austinmcc, did you breadcrumb? can you prove it? blah blah? + Show Spoiler +I did not crumb, because I'm dumb. But my play should back up my claim. - In LV, I went conspiracy theorist and I was noob town, and survived until endgame. When I saw I had a power role, I decided I wanted to set myself up to live until endgame, because that meant more chances to get messages and hold onto them, feeling out the scum team. Marv especially can back this up, he left me alive in LV because I was not clearly scummy, but nobody cared what I had to say given the conspiracy theories. He knows I'm not an idiot though, so hopefully this makes sense - I posted conspiracy theory stuff early hoping for the same effect, to get ignored and survive til endgame. For that I'm sorry, because that decision kind of hurts town and it puts me in a mindset where I'm playing to survive and not win. I didn't contribute nearly as much as I should have, sorry guys.
- I haven't been scumhunting as much as normal, because I got complacent with my role. My role scumhunts for me, so I just wasn't as engaged this game as I have been when I was vanilla.
- My suspicions of Chezinu, the thing I couldn't explain earlier, should become apparent when I explain my checks.
- My minor defense of Foolishness, which Marv and VE mentioned, can be explained by my checks
- The message I snooped actually explain the game
The rest of that post I cut, but it was only specific to Bureaucracy.
The reasons behind that post are AWFUL. Ghost had just posted about giving a votecount. Caller's game just ended a day at an odd deadline, so I saw the vote count, had just sat down to look at what had happened overnight (overnight EST) and flipped out and wanted to get a vote in. I can't back that post up with any reasonable explanation.
I can give you the dumb "well why would I do that as scum?" response as well, because it's an idiotic post from either end, but that response isn't helpful.
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'd be sort of okay with it, but I'd much rather lynch prplhz. I don't think Hapa's made a lot of sense today. He's been very active in thread but he's overreached and misinterpreted (especially in the Mementoss case) which is quite unlike him.
Overall, austinmcc started off posting like shit and has gotten his crap together a little bit at the end here. His large text-walls shouldn't cause you to assume anything though-- nothing he says still makes any sense. I'm willing to lynch him, but I'd prefer prplhz. I'd also be more comfortable lynching him than Marv or any of the other non-prplhz major candidates.
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On September 20 2012 02:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 02:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: "He mentions them elsewhere, but doesn't explain them until after he's posted the list." I feel like at that point it's not even a summary, it's just a list of people who don't have to worry about being pressured by prplhz.
Sorry for posting so much right now. I believe I have class during the deadline, and while I will have access to a computer for the later half of it, I can't guarantee that I'll have time to keep posting then. As your vote is currently on austinmcc, care to comment on his case and what you make of his recent activity?
Absolutely!
I think the most convincing thing about it is the overall feeling that MMToss isn't really pressuring his scumreads. He hasn't said much about prplhz since the vote until his post about marv and I being suspicious together. I actually forgot that he even had his vote on him. Austinmcc didn't feel particularly pressured. And despite feeling like MMToss should be voting for me instead of prplhz based on his posting so far, I don't feel particularly pressured by him. He seems to be kind of passively throwing around suspicion, but keeping his vote firmly set on prplhz without any force behind it. I'm not sure if this is necessarily scummy (I know, wishy-washy), but I don't feel like it's consistent with MMToss's town play (the limited amount that I have experienced).
Gotta switch classrooms... I'll take another look at austin's recent posts and comment when I'm settled in the other room. Sorry about that :<
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
austin:
My reads have fluctuated somewhat from earlier today. I agree with Hiro on the tone of your posts; I had found something off about your demeanour (I had thought it was that you were trying too hard to create yourself a story) and what he says rings true.
My opinion on fuba has edged more towards scum. I find it bizarre that he's willing to vote you, but then pursues posts and content regarding prplhz, while completely disregarding any of the posts that you have made in the interim. If you were his main scumread (especially as most of his case seemed to be your inactivtiy) I would think that he should be interacting with your contributions since. I'd like others' opinion on this.
To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play.
To HiroPro: austinmcc did say that in Bureaucracy to be fair to him, or at the very least he said it to me with regards to his play in Bureaucracy. He's not lying about that. You're not going to get a lynch through on Hapahauli at this stage I think, so vote austin with me.
Palmar's absence is fucking pathetic.
prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie.
I don't really wanna lynch Mementoss right now. You had some good points but I think his defence is genuine; in addition to this I feel that he's been playing a little lazily, which I can empathise with. In both PTP and LVII too he seemed quite scummy because of a lack of effort at points.
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On September 20 2012 03:47 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party.
Yes. I'm entirely serious.
I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
EBWOP: listing townreads WITHOUT explanation (in prplhz section)
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play.
For what it's worth I currently have no intentions to vote you. I'm voting prplhz: he's my top scumread. He has never contributed and continues to adamantly refuse to do so. In the event it's literally impossible to lynch prplhz, I'll entertain an austinmcc lynch. I view no-lynching as the worst possible thing here.
On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie.
I think prplhz stupidity (feigned or otherwise) isn't an inherent scum or town-tell, simply because he could easily fake it. It's not something that helps his arguments and it gives him a crutch for taking and defending bad positions, which certainly doesn't look scummy on its face. Is our assumption really that prplhz is just not getting what we're saying? I don't interpret that on its own to be a scumtell, but I disagree that it's a townie thing. I think it's just a "prplhz either doesn't understand or is feigning not to, or perhaps even is scum and doesn't understand".
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Ok, a few things:
On September 19 2012 21:43 Palmar wrote:
I'm not applying meta, I'm applying what's logical to do. There's only two options that make sense from a townie point of view when presented with an accusation like mine. One is to think I'm scum and present a case towards that end, or the other is to think I'm town and wrong, and in that case raging at me doesn't make much sense, should rather just go do something useful.
I think you fucked up, and I think you've proven you're scum.
This post by Palmar actually made me reconsider my null/town read on marv. Because it is true, no matter how you put it you really shouldn't care so much about being accused if you are town. Defending yourself excessively or raging is not an option to show your fellow players your town side. You can only prove yourself by actual scum-hunting. I'm a bit more unsure about marv but am still leaning towards a null/slightly scummier read.
Nonetheless I still think that the case Palmar made on marv is weak. + Show Spoiler +On September 19 2012 18:13 Palmar wrote:This is why marvellosity is scum: Show nested quote +On September 18 2012 06:46 marvellosity wrote:
P.S the whole point is that iamp's suggestion wasn't random, so we already have a liar. LAL? Possibly a joke, I wasn't in the game when this was written so I don't know how the mood was in the thread. The random lynch suggestion, while strange, bears no meaning to his alignment. This is important: When I joined the game marv had made exactly one post worth reading. It was a long-winded post but it had very little substance to it, at least for someone I would consider a good player. He basically rehashed the reasons why a case against hapahauli was bad (duh) and then proceeded to vote for a lurker. The point is marv was really, really not doing jack shit in the game until I actually came in and called him out on it. He seems to have really changed things up. He even changed his entire attitude to be more badass. If you don't believe me, read his filter before, and after this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16286762Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 01:35 marvellosity wrote:On September 19 2012 01:33 prplhz wrote:On September 19 2012 01:32 marvellosity wrote:
why do GK and Palmar look town to you, then? Well, goodkarma looks town because he was putting effort into his posts and because he was pushing the right agendas and because he replaced out (sorry, but town replaces out 10 times more than scum). Palmar is looking interested in this game and that's good enough for me for now. You will agree with me that HiroPro's case is not exactly overly convincing. No, it's not convincing, but I found his point about throwing a bunch of new candidates into an already divided town pretty decent. I disagree on GK for the reason I outlined earlier. What I take from this post is that marv for some reason has a problem with me not following whatever trends are already happening in town. The bad thing about replacing in is that you miss a ton of important reactional stuff, the good thing is that you start with a completely unbiased point of view. I decided to post as I read through what had already happened in the game. So, marv's problem is essentially that I had my own point of view. Did you think I wouldn't tell people what I thought about other people in the game? Should I just not call out my reads because they "mess with an already divided town"? It's a real problem when you're actively encouraging people to not read the thread objectively. Unless of course you're scum. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 02:28 marvellosity wrote:
Palmar's play so far:
1. lol call 3 people scum for no reason
2. give out townreads to make self look townie (wow I can do this too, does this actually give town credit around here now? I should have known)
3. vote someone for no reason
na, piss off Palmar. There is a marked difference between giving townreads for the hell of it, and giving town reads because it's applicable to give townreads. You already know that I hate it when people do the stupid "don't give your town reads" shit. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:34 marvellosity wrote:
also, I'll answer you on Palmar if you can give me a coherent scum motivation behind my blatant OMGUS
gogogo That's not how the game works, if it did you could just OMGUS every time and say "no scum would do that". I take your OMGUS as having almost nothing to do with your alignment, I take your attempt at using it to make you look like town based on that, as very, very indicative of you being scum. Show nested quote +On September 19 2012 05:55 Hapahauli wrote:On September 19 2012 05:52 marvellosity wrote:
I'm amazed you think weak sheeping from a seasoned player is a null tell, hapa. Seasoned players vote like that all the time, and I have yet to connect a mafia-mentality with prplhz. Weak sheeping from a seasoned player can absolutely be null. It's all got to do with how they sheep and why. Not the face-value of just sheeping. We need to kill marv today. Just for effect/emphasis ##Vote marvellosity
I have already stated that I don't get the feeling that marv's posting has changed a lot after the Palmar/marv discussion. And claiming that marv was discouraging you from giving your scum reads is a huge stretch. All he asked for was an explanation for your reads, you are totally misrepresenting the facts!
And by the way, I too am unsatisfied with the way you are presenting your reads. I have asked for explanations over and over again and you have been ignoring them over and over again. Would you mind to elaborate your thought process? Why is it that people are praising your play when all I have encountered is a very unhelpful Palmar not willing to share his reasonings? How is that town-friendly?
I agree with austinmcc's case that Mementoss does not follow up his questions. I have to read through his filter once more though to give a final stance on him.
@Hapa:
On September 20 2012 01:06 Hapahauli wrote:
As for prplhz, I have a townie read on him. Too many people are sheeping his case. Things are coming together too easily. Finally, I don't agree with Ange's case. Ange reads his posts as "useless fluff", and therefore he's scum. I read his posts completely differently, and see a townie who's being open with his suspicions.
For example, look how he voted marv, and explicitly stated he had reservations about it. That's not scum behavior. Voting for someone you don't believe is scum = scum behavior. Voting someone while expressing reservations is a cautious townie. What's the point of including that reservations line as scum? It's just as easy to sheep and tunnel marv without any reservations.
To me, his "reservations" say that he's open about his reads and mentality. I believe prplhz is town.
So you are saying that because people are sheeping the prplhz case he has to be town? We haven't once had the majority to lynch him because there has been new cases all the time distracting from prplhz. You claim that you see a town player who is being open with his suspicions? Well, if that was the case, why wouldn't he just state his reservations against the marv lynch? Furthermore, except for the weak case on marv, there has been no scum-hunting at all.
[/QUOTE]
On to prplhz' defense:
On September 20 2012 02:59 prplhz wrote:
I'm already hating it. Why is Ange777 quoting my very first post, some would even argue the very first post of the game and then calling it fluff? That's grasping for any little fucking thing you can find and it makes you look desperate. This doesn't have a lot to do with your case, it's a bad argument but meh, I just don't understand why people write big dumb text wall PBPA and then include every little dumb thing. Do you seriously think that this post is clearly more scummy than townie? No you don't because allegedly you have brain so use it.
I started to dislike your play because I saw similarities from your play last time to your play this time. Being contradicted that your filter in this game has been vastly different than GLS Open, I just wanted to make clear that the length of a filter is in no way alignment showing due to the fact that it's easy to spam or fluff one's filter.
So what if I didn't scum hunt enough for your taste? Tons of other scum hunted less than me because I scum hunted quite a bit, I just mostly found townies which I think is pretty good. Thinking that half the game is >90% sure townies is a pretty good thing for a townie because then he can focus on the baddies. I am giving you my reads you can't expect people to just catch scum. In either case I'm feeling really good about marvellosity and I already told you why and we'll get to that later. It's kind of ironic that you complain about my lack of scum hunting in the same post that you complain about the scum hunting I'm doing.
As for how being the center of attention makes it more easy to scum hunt, that might actually be your opinion but I'm spending waaaaaaaaay too much time responding to shit like this instead of scum hunting. I also don't think that knowing your own alignment and how people react to it is necessarily something that makes it easier to scum hunt because you have to evaluate whether or not what you say is townie if you are being attacked, and the same thing when other people are being attacked you need to evaluate whether or not what they say is townie. Just look at this massive text wall took me ages to write and I'm not even done because there are at least two other people who have voted me for bad reasons since then.
I am not saying that stating town reads is useless. It's just not as helpful as stating scum reads. And it's actually even easier for scum to state concrete town reads, they already know the alignment. And yes of course I am complaining about your lack of scum hunting because I don't think that the case on marv was any good.
Are you for real? Let me analyse this argument to expose how utterly ridiculous it is:
prplhz is scum and because of that he is lazy.
prplhz sees a post and decides that he does not want to read this single post out of the entire game.
prplhz decides that the best thing to do is to write a post in the thread about how he's not reading this post.
If you don't see how ridiculous this is then I don't know what the fuck. It's wrong on so many levels I don't know where to start holy fuck I gotta move on because I am getting so mad.
Okay I calmed down a bit. It's wrong because lazy doesn't mean scum by default and she doesn't argue that it has to mean scum here. Whatever. It's wrong because she's claiming that my lazyness has brought me to not reading this single post, which constitutes I'd say about 0.1% of the thread but whatever. I'd say that lazyness would probably more result in someone skimming the thread and not just skipping stuff. Alright. It is wrong because no scum would think it a good idea to announce in the thread that they're not reading it, when they can just....... not announce it in the thread lol and then read it if they have to or claim that they forgot or whatever the fuck. The scum motivation for this post is infinitesimal compared to how much flak you can instantly catch for admitting not reading the thread. Whatever you guys are dumb if you didn't already realize this.
This argument is so irrationally that I don't know what.
Anyway, I did read his post I just think that the Kenpachi Rule Extended is bullshit so I was discouraging further use of it. I didn't want Zephirdd to hide behind a dumb rule that I think is a null tell for the entire game (or even for a day).
Yes you are right. Lazy does not always mean scum. But why wouldn't scum state that? Having so many players venting their (sometimes fake) anger, you could fool someone by saying outrageously that you generally don't read anything related to the Kenpachi/Zeph rule. But this is just one part of my case so let's see your defense for the next accusations.
So what? You are grasping for straws and it's looking ridiculous to be honest. If you need to make a case then drop the irrelevant parts or at least put them in a spoiler and mark it "TOTALLY IRRELEVANT". Two posts are useless jokey posts? So what?
Again, this was for showing that the a big filter does not necessary mean that you had contributed a lot.
I already explained why I don't think so. Palmar was reading up on the thread and posting (some would say spamming) quite a bit, it looked like he was just posting whatever was on his mind while catching up on the thread. It was 20 hours into the game and there were no serious lynch candidates around. Townie Palmar also just says whatever the fuck he wants (I remember a game where he fake claimed day vigilante and threatened another dude who happened to actually be a day vigilante and then he flipped out and shot somebody just because Palmar was buddying with him, pretty hilarious and shows how Palmar plays; he just plays) and we weren't in a situation where we had to focus because we had plenty of time before deadline. Palmar also has really good first impressions and day1 reads. It was all too dumb to say that he was scum because he spoke his mind about what he saw in the thread and there are plenty of reasons for that for someone who is competent as marvellosity is.
So that means that I can't expect Palmar to back up his reads with proof or explanation? You are totally missing my point. My point was that marv has every right to ask for an explanation when someone just dumps a read into the thread without any proper reasoning. And that this should not make him scummy.
marvellosity can do the OMGUS as town or scum but I consider it more likely that he does it as scum because it's not a town move. The OMGUS served just to make him look bad which is generally not something scum do but it's over the top and dumb when he can just argue. Why is he flipping out like that just because some dude said "u scum m8" instead of keeping his cool?
That's just WIFOM. I already mentioned it earlier, yes the raging makes him scummy but that's not enough for me to vote him.
And why aren't you commenting at all on your "reservations" against marv?
I'll post this stuff now as I am only at page 25 with reading.
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On September 20 2012 03:56 marvellosity wrote:
austin:
My reads have fluctuated somewhat from earlier today. I agree with Hiro on the tone of your posts; I had found something off about your demeanour (I had thought it was that you were trying too hard to create yourself a story) and what he says rings true.
My opinion on fuba has edged more towards scum. I find it bizarre that he's willing to vote you, but then pursues posts and content regarding prplhz, while completely disregarding any of the posts that you have made in the interim. If you were his main scumread (especially as most of his case seemed to be your inactivtiy) I would think that he should be interacting with your contributions since. I'd like others' opinion on this.
To BlazingHand: the reason it was a pile of shit is that far more people have expressed the opinion that I'm town or a bad lynch than they have with austin. Corralling people into voting on specific candidates like that is bad play.
To HiroPro: austinmcc did say that in Bureaucracy to be fair to him, or at the very least he said it to me with regards to his play in Bureaucracy. He's not lying about that. You're not going to get a lynch through on Hapahauli at this stage I think, so vote austin with me.
Palmar's absence is fucking pathetic.
prplhz has annoyingly come in to defend himself and then provided nothing else. I'm finding that pretty scummy because it hasn't moved conversation forward. On the flip side, I found Hiro's arguments about how prplhz behaves as town (sheeping strong players) as quite convincing; further I think prplhz's frustration is genuine; I also see (ironically) prplhz's failure to understand that listing townreads with explanation is bad as somewhat townie.
I don't really wanna lynch Mementoss right now. You had some good points but I think his defence is genuine; in addition to this I feel that he's been playing a little lazily, which I can empathise with. In both PTP and LVII too he seemed quite scummy because of a lack of effort at points.
I have too much fun with setup speculation, paranoia, and odd plans to just afk as scum. If I ever actually roll scum, I'll end up getting caught doing something, rather than being absent and having 2 retarded posts.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
that's wifomy as shit and meaningless
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On September 20 2012 03:56 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2012 03:47 Blazinghand wrote:On September 20 2012 03:43 austinmcc wrote:
On September 20 2012 03:32 Blazinghand wrote:Here are the reasons Mementoss is scummy:1) unwilling to take risks, instead asks questions in this post. 2) responds to Hapa in a kind shitty way (link) but hapa's initial questioning is basically a huge over-reach in terms of interpretations of Mementoss' reasonings. On September 20 2012 03:38 Blazinghand wrote:
Those of you who think you're on real wagons (the ones on austinmcc, marvellosity, and mementoss) you gotta realize nobody's joining you. You should all combine into one super-wagon and pick up the stragglers to avoid a no-lynch, preferrably on marvellosity. Ideally though guys like HiroPro and iamperfection will pull their heads out of their asses and stop wasting their votes even harder than the dudes on the 2-vote wagons.
I'll take a look at autinmcc now. If you find mementoss scummy, and prplhz isn't happening, are you switching? He may only have 2 votes to prpl's 5, but a swap from you, who says he's scummy, makes it 3-4. Ange says she's rereading, bluelightz...had mementoss scummy then switches because of an answer he gave to a follow-up question? Are you fucking serious? Am I switching from a highly scummy player who's close to getting lynched to a slightly scummy player who has very few votes? I don't know what you're smoking but it sounds like it makes for a pretty good party. Yes. I'm entirely serious. I didn't ask, HEY BH U WAN SWITCH?! I asked whether, if prplhz wasn't happening, you would switch. I don't exactly find it ridiculous to see whether you'd switch from someone you find scummy to someone you also find scummy.
But then you bring up the 2 votes vs 5 situation, which is why I think you may or may not be shitting me. If prplhz isn't happening and there's only 2 votes on mementoss, why the hell would I ever switch to him? He's not even my second-highest scumread and like nobody thinks he's scum.
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EPT
