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On June 12 2011 05:19 SolidusR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 05:02 muse5187 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on this subject. It's not your right to receive welfare as far as I know. So how can it be unconstitutional to drug test someone who is receiving something that you are not entitled too? Just because you aren't entitled to welfare doesn't mean the government has a reasonable cause to search everyone who applies. The question here is reasonable cause, not entitlement. Any time the government does something, it needs a base reason to do so. Especially if the action is classified as a search. The circumstances which have culminated in the government being in a position to search someone are irrelevant for the question of constitutionality, it's whether or not the search itself has a reasonable purpose beyond institutionalizing the assumption that welfare recipients are generally also drug addicts. Edit: I really don't get the crack and heroin references. You guys do realize that these drug tests will fail to pick up on those drugs because they are out of your system within a day... right? Cheap tests can only detect THC cause it sits in your system for weeks to months if you are a chronic user.
It sounds like, for you, a better solution would be for the government to shutdown welfare to everyone, therefore nobody has to undergo these "unreasonable searches" that are drug screenings.
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On June 12 2011 05:19 SolidusR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 05:02 muse5187 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on this subject. It's not your right to receive welfare as far as I know. So how can it be unconstitutional to drug test someone who is receiving something that you are not entitled too? Just because you aren't entitled to welfare doesn't mean the government has a reasonable cause to search everyone who applies. The question here is reasonable cause, not entitlement. Any time the government does something, it needs a base reason to do so. Especially if the action is classified as a search. The circumstances which have culminated in the government being in a position to search someone are irrelevant for the question of constitutionality, it's whether or not the search itself has a reasonable purpose beyond institutionalizing the assumption that welfare recipients are generally also drug addicts.
Reason : government is going broke and giving away money to buy drugs. Something is obviously wrong with that.
On June 12 2011 05:19 SolidusR wrote:
Edit: I really don't get the crack and heroin references. You guys do realize that these drug tests will fail to pick up on those drugs because they are out of your system within a day... right? Cheap tests can only detect THC cause it sits in your system for weeks to months if you are a chronic user.
While we're on the subject of irrelevancy. How does the amount of time you can detect a drug user matter? Chances are sooner or later they will get caught with the random tests.
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I have had to get a drug test for every real job I have started. I do not feel bad that people getting welfare will as well.
Those of you who say how is it fair to withhold money because they have a bad habit: its no different than if I try to get a job with a bad habit. I simply wont get the job, thus I won't get paid.
Any step to pushing back at the plague that is ruining this country is a good one. America is becoming more of a filth every day.
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where do you draw the line with this? people should also be tested to see if they are alcoholics, shopaholics, gamblers etc.
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On June 12 2011 05:46 splinter9 wrote:
where do you draw the line with this? people should also be tested to see if they are alcoholics, shopaholics, gamblers etc.
With the exception of gambling depending on state, none of those things are illegal.
If you are breaking the governments laws, the government shouldn't be giving you free money. I don't think the government should be giving you free money at all, but betterment of society and all that. Hell I would rather there be government subsidies for REHAB than to be just blindly giving drug addicts money.
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On June 12 2011 05:46 splinter9 wrote:
where do you draw the line with this? people should also be tested to see if they are alcoholics, shopaholics, gamblers etc.
Where do you think the line is drawn? It's illegal to use certain substances. And no I am not in the drugs are bad camp. This is just hypocritical. Welfare is to help people, not feed their addictions.
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Thank god. I can't believe this isn't implemented Federally
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On June 11 2011 05:07 Billyray wrote:Show nested quote +
So the honest people pee in a cup every once in a while, and come up clean. Have to do it to get most jobs anyway. Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised if it cuts down in government spending due to people not collecting their welfare checks because they can't pass the test.
How do you figure those people will get their money to live now ?
Stop doing drugs so that they test clean? Keep clean until they have a job so they have the income to support their habit?
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On June 12 2011 05:50 schmeebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 05:46 splinter9 wrote:
where do you draw the line with this? people should also be tested to see if they are alcoholics, shopaholics, gamblers etc. With the exception of gambling depending on state, none of those things are illegal. If you are breaking the governments laws, the government shouldn't be giving you free money. I don't think the government should be giving you free money at all, but betterment of society and all that. Hell I would rather there be government subsidies for REHAB than to be just blindly giving drug addicts money.
The issue is that government money is being used fraudulently which is illegal. So I don't see why it matters whether its being wasted on hookers, drugs or donuts.
for the most part i agree with this test it just seems somewhat redundant to test poor people with a multitude of social and physical issues just for drug problems where there are so many problems these people may nor may not have that will "waste" this money. its a slippery slope
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The law just went into effect today. Sad day for florida.
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I'm pretty sure a dime sack is cheaper then testing every single person on welfare.
I don't know about this economically or morally, now instead of smoking pot they'll drink alcohol. Is that really better?
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about damn time, every state should do this why give tax payer dollars to people who will just use it to get high?
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violating rights? who cares, they are getting free money, they are basically slaves anyways. Most people on welfare are already addicts of some kind, it's only natural that a sum of the money they receive will be going towards that addiction. It's an infinite feedback loop for these people, they feel terrible they don't have a job so they get high or drunk, the government sends them money so they just keep doing it and never actually try and get out of welfare. If someone is handing you free booze and you like to drink, you take it.
I don't think ALL people on welfare are actually like this though, I know there are people who are actually trying to make a life for themselves they just happen to live in bad area that makes it tough for one to get out of.
On July 03 2011 05:46 CurLy[] wrote:
I'm pretty sure a dime sack is cheaper then testing every single person on welfare.
I don't know about this economically or morally, now instead of smoking pot they'll drink alcohol. Is that really better?
great point, they could always just abuse alcohol but at least we know that some of the money won't be used on meth or something equally hardcore.
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On July 03 2011 05:48 fish ()( wrote:
about damn time, every state should do this why give tax payer dollars to people who will just use it to get high?
I believe that no government services whatsoever should be provided to anyone who does not pass a drug test.
Why give people free services, when they will just take advantage of them, leaving them with money to get high.
Education for your kids? Why should the government pay for that? Druggies should send their kids to private school, instead of using that money to get high.
Subsidies for public transit? Druggies should buy and pay for their cars. Instead of using that money to get high.
Etc, etc.
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On July 03 2011 03:48 VPCursed wrote:
The law just went into effect today. Sad day for florida.
why?
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This will be an iteresting case for the supreme court in a few years when it gets up there. I bet its a 6-3 decision that its unconstitutional. We will see though.
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How on earth is it unconstitutional? Every single job I've ever had I had to take a drug test for. Why should free money from the government be exempt from that? You don't HAVE to get on welfare, but if you do, you have to follow the rules. One of the rules now is don't do drugs. I fail to see how that is at all a bad thing.
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On July 03 2011 07:11 Moonwrath wrote:
How on earth is it unconstitutional? Every single job I've ever had I had to take a drug test for. Why should free money from the government be exempt from that? You don't HAVE to get on welfare, but if you do, you have to follow the rules. One of the rules now is don't do drugs. I fail to see how that is at all a bad thing.
Private businesses can do as they will. They can punish you for unwise speech, punish you for bringing a firearm into the office, or punish you for disseminating literature contrary to their charter or best interests.
The government is bound by the Constitution and its amendments. This law is a direct and obvious violation of the Fourth Amendment, and it should be struck down quickly.
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On July 03 2011 09:02 Voros wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 07:11 Moonwrath wrote:
How on earth is it unconstitutional? Every single job I've ever had I had to take a drug test for. Why should free money from the government be exempt from that? You don't HAVE to get on welfare, but if you do, you have to follow the rules. One of the rules now is don't do drugs. I fail to see how that is at all a bad thing. Private businesses can do as they will. They can punish you for unwise speech, punish you for bringing a firearm into the office, or punish you for disseminating literature contrary to their charter or best interests. The government is bound by the Constitution and its amendments. This law is a direct and obvious violation of the Fourth Amendment, and it should be struck down quickly.
Umm no, it is not a clear violation of the 4th amendment. A clear violation would be the government requiring everyone to get a drug test, or randomly picking people to take drug tests. There is no cause for search there. There is, however, a cause when you voluntarily go on welfare to receive money from the government. Nobody is forcing you to go on welfare. If you want to go on welfare, you must complete a drug test to ensure that the government's money will be spent on its intended purpose. I still do not understand how that requirement is unconstitutional. It is entirely within the realm of a reasonable search to check if the people you're giving money too are using drugs.
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On July 03 2011 06:35 Marcus420 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 03:48 VPCursed wrote:
The law just went into effect today. Sad day for florida. why?
because it costs more to test people than it does to let them use drugs, so the idea that this will 'save' money from the welfare system is flawed
its just another scam
hence sad
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EPT
